353 réponses à ce sujet

[Wrathra]

ejoslin wrote...

Wrathra wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I totally agree your choices are all valid, except that I have done either way, depending on how I roleplay it. Some characters let Loghain live either out of a sense of honor for the rules of duel or out of cold calculation, others just kill him without a thought. Sometimes my character kills Zevhran, other times I let him live.

Zevhran is an interesting comparison, because you can recruit him without any real risk (except if he betrays you, but then he just dies - no big deal). I think this is part of why Alistair's actions becomes such a shock, and why I wish they had prepared the player better for Alistairs actions. Up until then, the game has more or less conditioned you to pick up every strange or potentially untrustworthy stray you can imagine and add to your party, with no real risk involved. I mean seriuosly, if you didn't know this was a game, would you let an assassin who just surrendered live and have him bunk in the tent next to you, just like that?

That is a very very good point, actually!  One I cannot refute. I salute you, sir!   

I always say the human noble has no real right to condemn Alistair for his actions, since they get to kill Howe, but that's an entirely different argument and one I won't bore you with 

This is probably been said a billion times, but I think Alistair's reactions are meant to be a shock, it's not a decision we're supposed to make lightly.

The human noble has no choice BUT to kill Howe -- Howe drew first, and Anora sent her to Howe.  And the human noble, when wanting to go after Howe at the beginning, was forbidden to do so by Duncan.

Yes, I know. But condemning Alistair for wanting to do what the noble gets to do is hypocritical, unless the human noble is willing to let Howe go or make him a warden or something

It's a different argument, I'm not going to derail the thread with it, just saying....

[Wrathra]

Xandurpein wrote...

Wrathra wrote...

I always say the human noble has no real right to condemn Alistair for his actions, since they get to kill Howe, but that's an entirely different argument and one I won't bore you with 

I am familiar with this argument, and I think it's not applicable at all. It would only be meaningful if letting Howe live is an option. Without that, the argument becomes something like "No one who has won on a lottery ticket has the right to condemn a bank robber".

I mean from a total RP standpoint. The games limitations don't allow it.  *shrug* just how I see it.

[Kohaku]

Xandurpein wrote...
I'm sure there is hope for you, and if all else fails there are some of us who really liked Anora...

Maybe. Twelve step programs are for everything now a days. Step one: Don't yank the boy's chain. No not the imaginary one, the one you just put around his neck. Stop that!

Modifié par Kerridan Kaiba, 29 décembre 2009 - 06:45 .

[tmp7704]

Xandurpein wrote...

Well... then he is a childish idiot for thinking I am the same as the whole world.

I don't think it's as much thinking the player's character is the whole world, but rather the whole world up to this point showing him very little reason why he shouldn't be thinking this way. Duncan and then the player's character are the only bright spots in his overall gloomy experience, and he loses them both one way or the other.

At that point it becomes largely a matter of faith -- when you have no evidence of existence of a divine being (no evidence anyone cares about you) which stance is being the childish idiot, believing in it just because it makes you feel better, or presuming such thing does not exist?

[Recidiva]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I just had to look that up. I had no idea what that meant. I've never seen Star Trek.

Okay.  I won't revoke any nerd points.  I have plenty to go around.  You can borrow some of my nerdiness for the purpose of this conversation.

It means if necessary I'll cheat to get the results I want in a computer simulation.

Someone wrote a mod where I can punch Alistair out on the rooftop and take the final blow even if he's in love with me.

[Kohaku]

Recidiva wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I just had to look that up. I had no idea what that meant. I've never seen Star Trek.

Okay.  I won't revoke any nerd points.  I have plenty to go around.  You can borrow some of my nerdiness for the purpose of this conversation.

It means if necessary I'll cheat to get the results I want in a computer simulation.

Someone wrote a mod where I can punch Alistair out on the rooftop and take the final blow even if he's in love with me.

I'm laughing so hard. Did they make the mod just for you?

[bobsmyuncle]

ejoslin wrote...

bobsmyuncle wrote...

And if I had to argue about what makes a good leader, someone who is wary of power, doesn't like the trappings of authority, and has a strong sense of right and wrong would be who I would argue for.

Heh, like Lord Harrowmont over Prince Bhelen I take it . . .  The game makes a very strong argument against this very argument!

The game can argue with me all it wants to, but I'm not the type of person to do something I feel is wrong just because it's effective. At any rate, I don't see Lord H fitting the third criterion. A strong sense of honor and tradition, sure. It doesn't make it right to consign an entire class of people to poverty, disease, and death just because it's the done thing. Nor does he fit the first criterion, because in my mind there's a difference between being reluctant to use power and absolutely refusing to do so. So for me, the choice between the two is trying to figure out who is going to do the most good. I don't like crowning Bhelen (who fits zero of my criteria), but Harrowmont isn't exactly peaches and cream either.

[Recidiva]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I'm laughing so hard. Did they make the mod just for you?

Not sure JUST for me.  But certainly inspired by my vehemence that this should be an option.  I wasn't alone in that opinion however.

[Kohaku]

Recidiva wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I'm laughing so hard. Did they make the mod just for you?

Not sure JUST for me.  But certainly inspired by my vehemence that this should be an option.  I wasn't alone in that opinion however.

Hm. I haven't played though the game a real second time yet but I might have to add this to a game just to see how it goes down.

[Recidiva]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

Hm. I haven't played though the game a real second time yet but I might have to add this to a game just to see how it goes down.

It makes me happy!

[ejoslin]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

Recidiva wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I just had to look that up. I had no idea what that meant. I've never seen Star Trek.

Okay.  I won't revoke any nerd points.  I have plenty to go around.  You can borrow some of my nerdiness for the purpose of this conversation.

It means if necessary I'll cheat to get the results I want in a computer simulation.

Someone wrote a mod where I can punch Alistair out on the rooftop and take the final blow even if he's in love with me.

I'm laughing so hard. Did they make the mod just for you?

I think doing that to Alistair is the cruelest thing you can do to him.  He's destroyed if he ever romanced you and you sacrifice yourself.

[bobsmyuncle]

Recidiva wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

Hm. I haven't played though the game a real second time yet but I might have to add this to a game just to see how it goes down.

It makes me happy!

I looked this up and got a good laugh. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

On the other hand there are also apparently plenty of Alistair makeover mods, including one that makes him look more like Cailan ().

[Herr Uhl]

bobsmyuncle wrote...
On the other hand there are also apparently plenty of Alistair makeover mods, including one that makes him look more like Cailan ().

"Glorious"

[Recidiva]

ejoslin wrote...

I think doing that to Alistair is the cruelest thing you can do to him.  He's destroyed if he ever romanced you and you sacrifice yourself.

It's pretty cruel either way.  But this way I get the romance and the sacrifice and the eulogy.

Otherwise I get a hallway of people I don't want to talk to.

He had it his way at least three games worth.  I get it my way at least once.  Then I can relax.

[Recidiva]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

I looked this up and got a good laugh. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

On the other hand there are also apparently plenty of Alistair makeover mods, including one that makes him look more like Cailan ().

The other mods I use are the respec potions and a mod that makes it possible to bash open chests or magic them open if you're a warrior or a mage.  Saves me rogue anxiety.

I don't think Alistair needs to change.  When the new DLC content comes out again, I'll do exactly the same thing, play a human noble rogue that is an angel through the whole game and punches him out at the end.

Then I'll sob for two hours.

[Kohaku]

Recidiva wrote...

bobsmyuncle wrote...

I looked this up and got a good laugh. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

On the other hand there are also apparently plenty of Alistair makeover mods, including one that makes him look more like Cailan ().

The other mods I use are the respec potions and a mod that makes it possible to bash open chests or magic them open if you're a warrior or a mage.  Saves me rogue anxiety.

I don't think Alistair needs to change.  When the new DLC content comes out again, I'll do exactly the same thing, play a human noble rogue that is an angel through the whole game and punches him out at the end.

Then I'll sob for two hours.

I need to begin looking at mods. My mod senses are tingling.

@Bob - Are you serious? I have to see this.

[robertthebard]

tmp7704 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Umm... I didn't even like him that much. He can stuff his affection for all I care, but I still think he is a jackass for desrting the Grey Wardens. At least when I played it, saving the world was teeny bit more important than my characters ego.

But if you did not care for this world at all and the world seemingly didn't care at all about you as well, would you bother to save it? Why, when it seems perfectly happy to save itself without your unwelcome assistance? That's the point where Alistair is at.

You mean like City Elf Origin?  You know, conscripted to save your life from your "crime" of killing the Arl's son for either kidnapping you(female) or your fiance(male), raping your cousin Shianni, and killing one of your friends?

Maybe you mean the Dwarf Noble who was expertly manipulated by Bhelen, and it's either join the Wardens or die in the Deep Roads, ironically enough to face dying in the deep roads 30 years later anyway?

Maybe you mean the Dalish origin, where you're forced to join the Wardens or possibly become like Tamlen?

Perhaps you're referring to the Human Noble origin, where Duncan agrees to save you if you become a Grey Warden?

Point being, show me an origin that can't have the exact attitude you ascribe to Alistair running off as perfectly ok.

Funny how this excuse can be used to justify Alistair running away, but doesn't justify the Dark Ritual.  Selective morality FTW?

Regarding the strawman that you created, see the post I linked to in my response.  You said that, I didn't.  I just pointed out the fallacy of what you said.

[bobsmyuncle]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

Recidiva wrote...

bobsmyuncle wrote...

I looked this up and got a good laugh. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

On the other hand there are also apparently plenty of Alistair makeover mods, including one that makes him look more like Cailan ().

The other mods I use are the respec potions and a mod that makes it possible to bash open chests or magic them open if you're a warrior or a mage.  Saves me rogue anxiety.

I don't think Alistair needs to change.  When the new DLC content comes out again, I'll do exactly the same thing, play a human noble rogue that is an angel through the whole game and punches him out at the end.

Then I'll sob for two hours.

I need to begin looking at mods. My mod senses are tingling.

@Bob - Are you serious? I have to see this.

Serious as a heart attack.

Here's a picture:

[Kohaku]

I just saw it after you said it. Wow. He looks just like Cailen there. I need a better picture of Maric, that I do.

[bobsmyuncle]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I just saw it after you said it. Wow. He looks just like Cailen there. I need a better picture of Maric, that I do.

Yeah, now I understand why Anora was so creeped out by the idea of marrying Alistair.

Here's a comparison of their faces side by side:

I have to say I do think Alistair came out ahead in that particular genetic crapshoot. He is much prettier than Cailan

[robertthebard]

This is kinda funny, in a WTF kinda way, but when I saw those screenshots, I wanted to punch my monitor.

[Kohaku]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I just saw it after you said it. Wow. He looks just like Cailen there. I need a better picture of Maric, that I do.

Yeah, now I understand why Anora was so creeped out by the idea of marrying Alistair.

Here's a comparison of their faces side by side:

I have to say I do think Alistair came out ahead in that particular genetic crapshoot. He is much prettier than Cailan

Oh totally. Alistair has nicer bone structure. Cailen's head looks kind of small and ball like, for lack of better words.

@Herr Uhl, I take back what I said earlier about Anora. I don't know how she could have married him after seeing how closely they resemble each other. Ugh.

[Herr Uhl]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...
@Herr Uhl, I take back what I said earlier about Anora. I don't know how she could have married him after seeing how closely they resemble each other. Ugh.

Yay, I win! *happy dance*

[Kohaku]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...
@Herr Uhl, I take back what I said earlier about Anora. I don't know how she could have married him after seeing how closely they resemble each other. Ugh.

Yay, I win! *happy dance*

I'll buy you a cactus dog. I just got one myself.

[Wrathra]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

I looked this up and got a good laugh. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

On the other hand there are also apparently plenty of Alistair makeover mods, including one that makes him look more like Cailan ().

Oh dear lord. That's just wrong!