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[Xandurpein]

The saddest irony is that Duncan would probably would be the first to condemn Alistair for desterting if he could.

[StaticSilence]

HarlequinDream wrote...

At least as far as Alistair is concerned, Loghain got Duncan killed, got Cailin (Alistair's half-brother and king) killed, got all the other Gray Wardens in Ferelden killed, and tried to have the two of you killed numerous times.

I can see why he refuses to fight with Loghain.

I agree.  Alistair was in the right.  Riordan was an idiot to suggest it.  Seriously, Riordan, the guy had you in a dungeon plus every other crime and atrocity he has participated in and you expect us to take him as a brother???

What bugged me was that there was no choice for imprisonment.  Only execution or cooperation and that's way too black and white.  I didn't want to kill Loghain- especially since his daughter was right in front of him and I wanted her to rule with Alistair, but I didn't have much choice now did I?  What's funny is that after you lop his head off right in front of her she it doesn't even bother her.  She just moves on to the next step- deciding who will rule.


"The saddest irony is that Duncan would probably would be the first to condemn Alistair for desterting if he could."

I think if Duncan had been around Alistair would never have had to make that decision anyways.  Duncan would not have presented that option that Riordan did.

Modifié par StaticSilence, 30 décembre 2009 - 11:36 .

[jmp0505]

@Default137 - not denying your interpretation of Loghain's motives. But why did he also declare that the Gray Warden's had betrayed and gotten Cailen killed? Why hire assassins and leave men out searching for any remaining Gray Wardens who might have information contrary to what he wanted spread about. There was no need for a smear campaign, if the truth was what it was.

Loghain is no doubt xenophobically loyal to his country, if not to its late unlamented king/son-in-law, but his motives are clearly not pure either. His actions were perhaps pragamatic at Ostagar, by his lights, but they were also self-serving.

He's as flawed as Alistair, then - they are just differently weak in certain areas. As flawed as Duncan or even your character. That's the enjoyment of the game for me. I will certainly do a play through (in the midst of it) where my character will take the chance and let Loghain have a shot at the Arch. Because that is the game I want to roll this time - but it won't be because I, or my character, think that Loghain's past service in any way excuses present flawed actions.

From a strictly personal perspective, I can "understand" Alistair's feelings about the whole Ostagar/decimation of the Gray Wardens better than I can understand Loghain's too-long entrenched fear of Orlais getting a foothold back in his country.

Modifié par jmp0505, 30 décembre 2009 - 11:30 .

[Default137]

jmp0505 wrote...

@Default137 - not denying your interpretation of Loghain's motives. But why did he also declare that the Gray Warden's had betrayed and gotten Cailen killed? Why hire assassins and leave men out searching for any remaining Gray Wardens who might have information contrary to what he wanted spread about. There was no need for a smear campaign, if the truth was what it was.

Loghain is no doubt xenophobically loyal to his country, if not to it's late unlamented king/son-in-law, but his motives are clearly not pure either. His actions were perhaps pragamatic at Ostagar, by his lights, but they were also self-serving.

He's as flawed as Alistair, then - they are just differently weak in certain areas. As flawed as Duncan or even your character. That's the enjoyment of the game for me. I will certainly do a play through (in the midst of it) where my character will take the chance and let Loghain have a shot at the Arch. Because that is the game I want to role this time - but it won't be because I, or my character, think that Loghain's past service in any way excuses present flawed actions.

From a strictly personal perspective, I can "understand" Alistair's feelings about the whole Ostagar/decimation of the Gray Wardens better than I can understand Loghain's too-long entrenched fear of Orlais getting a foothold back in his country.

He would need a scapegoat, he had just come back from a major battle, the King was dead, as was most of the army, many accounts said he had left the field early, and alot of people would be very suspicious, if he could remove the blame from himself, and put it on a party he was never very fond of to begin with, he would be in a win/win situation.

Amusingly enough, I'm not a big fan of what Loghain did either, I just like thinking outside the box, and hate seeing people just condemn him as a thug evil, rather then actually giving his actions any kind of thought, he is a very deep character if you take the time to figure out why he did the things he did, and while he is not exactly a paragon of saintlyness, he is nowhere near as bad as people want him to be.

I mean, if you actually save him, he talks about leaving the throne once everything was set up and done, he talks about how Cailan set up the battle, how Cailan was the one who pushed that strategy, and he tried to get him to do something more rational, he talks about how he originally was just going to get everything in order, then hand over the country to someone better suited for it ( this may have ended up being Howe, but it would have been in good intentions ) and all sorts of other things that paint him more as immoral loyalist rather then a totally evil villan.