353 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Another reason for sparing Loghain is if you know of what he did for Ferelden in the past and acknowledge that his hatred for the Orlesians has driven him a bit nuts. You don't have to either be just meta-gaming or hate alastair. To some extent, you could consider executing him as meta-gaming because you know without executing him there is no chance your character can marry and become princess-consort to Alastair as King.

In one of my playthroughs, one of my human noble ladies is of similar mould to Ser Cauthrien in that she aspires to be a good warrior like Teyrn Loghain. She'll also believe that all the crazy plots were of Howe's doing and that Howe poisoned Loghain's mind and so she'll spare him on the grounds of mercy. She will have up to this point also been in a romance with Alastair but that will obviously breakdown in that instance.

Another reason for sparing him is if the character prefers diplomacy over violence, another of my characters is going down this route and will first spare Loghain and then ask for Anora to show leniency to Alastair and spare him from execution.

There is plenty of RP ways to spare Loghain.

Edit: As for the OP opening question, in some ways I can see it and others I can't. It really depends I think on how you look at it. He considered Duncan a father-like figure, he sees Loghain as being the executor of this figure, even though he wasn't and imo even had Loghain NOT pulled out, Cailan and Duncan would still have died. Granted he did brand the Wardens as traitors and hired people to kill them. But who are the Wardens to be judge, jury and executioner of Duncan? The "I can see it as character breaking" is due to all of the other situations where similar calls have been made and if you go with the killing option, Alastair disapproves.

In my opinion there is a worse case of character breaking when dealing with Isolde/Connor. Because despite the fact that when you find out about Connor being possessed, Alastair comments on their being no other option. If you kill Connor he throws a hissyfit.

On some playthroughs ie. where you don't kill the circle mages, I could understand that, but considering one playthrough I did where I basically wiped out the mages before we went to Redcliffe and then killed Jowan thus leaving me only one choice to take (killing connor), despite all that he still throws a hissyfit. I really wish there was an option to re-count his own words to him in that instance because he is really hypocritical at that point.

Which is why I lean more towards it not being character-breaking because he just likes to throw hissyfits because he is too thick to understand.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 27 décembre 2009 - 01:26 .

[SinYang]

Alistair started out as great character imo, then went from serious/jokey to complete fool by Redcliffe onwards... the whining, whining. Hardening him didnt really help that.



I did the Landsmeet quest first time yesterday, kind of felt sorry for Anora having to put up with him (I married them off).. Loghain joining seemed to suit the mainstory, Anora didnt want her father dead, just defeated... as did the entire landsmeet.



I have only one problem now, Loghain got glitched in our duel, I kicked him up the butt and he continues his combat animation... out of combat.. broken back?

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

SinYang wrote...

Alistair started out as great character imo, then went from serious/jokey to complete fool by Redcliffe onwards... the whining, whining. Hardening him didnt really help that.

I did the Landsmeet quest first time yesterday, kind of felt sorry for Anora having to put up with him (I married them off).. Loghain joining seemed to suit the mainstory, Anora didnt want her father dead, just defeated... as did the entire landsmeet.

I have only one problem now, Loghain got glitched in our duel, I kicked him up the butt and he continues his combat animation... out of combat.. broken back?

I had this happen, the way I seemed to fix it was to go to camp, talk to him there (you get to have a nice chat with him) and then when I went to another location he seemed to be ok. It was only after I'd gone to camp this occurred, I had tried going through different zones to no affect.

[BroBear Berbil]

As far as I know Alistair never needed to be convinced to be a Warden or to fight the Blight. These are things he gladly accepts. I think OP gives him/herself too much credit in steering Alistair.



And it's character breaking that Alistair has his own mind and desires and decides not to just accept your decision? It's probably the only time in the game that you can't sucker him into agreeing with you. If you listened to him at all during the game you would know Duncan and the other Wardens were like his family and Cailan *is* family, for what that's worth to Alistair, and all of them get killed because of Loghain. Why should he suddenly say, "Sure Loghain let's be comrades!"



Alistair is not a pragmatist, he doesn't think the ends always justify the means, and he believes being a Warden is a sacred honor and duty. Even if he's hardened these parts of his personality don't do a complete 180 so I don't find his decision against his character at all. All companions save Morrigan (who is motivated by her own goals to stay with you unless you kick her out) and Dog have that moment where they simply won't fall back in line. Why should Alistair be any different?

[SarEnyaDor]

I can honestly say I never killed Loghain for any other reason than because he deserved to die, and 9 times out of 10, never even had a choice in the matter as (like my first playthrough) I let Alistair duel him.



Letting Alistair, the next king-to-be, do the duel seemed fitting and just, and when you do that, we all know what happens now.



I just really fail to see the logic in sparing him at that point, pre-why-we-need-Grey-Wardens talk, unless of course you just make a habit of sparing everyone.



Now, if Riordan DID tell Alistair why it was so important to have as many as possible and he STILL acted up, I could more easily understand people's frustration with his reaction.

[MKATAKM]

SarEnyaDor wrote...
Some people hate Alistair's voice, they hate his frowny face, they hate the way he waves his hands by his head in the fade as he disappears, none of that is meta-game knowledge at all....

But recruiting Loghain is not trusting him. I, for one, trust no one (hmm, good rhyme).  It is not meta-gaming either, it is part of the game. If it is meta-gaming, then the other is too. IMHO, neither is.
Alistair is cuter, yes. But Loghain is a greater asset. I hate being emotional, LOL.

[SarEnyaDor]

*sigh*



http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Metagaming



When people justify that taking Loghain in is better for the country because then he can die, Alistair and PC get to live and Ferelden enters a golden age - that IS meta-gaming.



Feeling emotionally invested in a character you've spent hours with is NOT meta-gaming.

[robertthebard]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I'm on Alistair's side on this, I only spared Loghain for the achievement.

Really, it is stupid to trust Loghain at that point. You only do it because you are 1) meta-gaming or 2) hate Alistair and like to see him upset. Those are the only logical reasons to choose a man who abandoned the king - his son-in-law!!, sold Ferelden citizens into slavery, poisoned Arl Eamon, and instigated an uprising in the mages tower.

It doesn't take metagaming to know that Alistair is a real "prince amongst men".  All it takes is asking him who his father is.  He lies.  Lying is a pattern of behavior that Alistair is familiar with.  He lies about his heritage from Day 1.  All it takes to decide tht maybe you're better off getting rid of him is considering his pattern of behavior from the start.  Every "strategy session", is a ripe oppurtunity for Alistair to spill the beans about his birthright.  However, he won't do so until you go to Redcliffe, and if he's not in the party when you go, then he won't volunteer the information ever.  You find out from Eamon.  Yes yes, I've heard the "he doesn't know you, he doesn't owe you, blah blah blah".  He decides that you're the leader, he decides this because he prefers to follow.  Do not interject metagame knowledge that he can't be the leader here.  He refuses to lead, and then refuses to help the leader lead by giving them all available information, and it's not just about his past, he also withholds information about becoming a Grey Warden.  So maybe you decide to spare Loghain because Alistair has betrayed you as well?

Only the Dalish and Dwarves had their own problems, every other thing you had to do in this game is cleaning up after Loghain!

All we have concerning Uldred is that he used Loghain as a lever to try to gain control of the Circle.  Is his claim that Loghain would get the Chantry out of the Circle substantiated any where else?

No one can honestly say that they, as a character, after spending months fighting this rat-bastard and trying to squash the Blight that he allowed to flourish all of sudden thinks it's a swell idea to work with this man. Remember that at this point your character DOES NOT KNOW that a Grey Warden must be sacrificed.

We don't know that a Warden must be sacrificed, but we do know that the senior Warden in Ferelden at this time has stated that there is a compelling reason to have as many Wardens as possible to face the Archdemon.  With all the other information that Alistair has withheld, at this point I have no reason to believe he didn't know.  The nightmare after leaving Lothering would have been an ideal time to volunteer other Warden information he has, but he doesn't.

So, you choose this ending because you are working with knowledge your character does not have, or you do it just to ****** off Alistair and break him, or you are a supremely naive-SpongeBob-esque character who thinks that everyone can just get along and chase jellyfish together into eternity.....

Or, you choose this ending because you had been in a romance with Alistair, and he failed to reveal the truth about himself until you find out from Arl Eamon.  Loghain has been upfront about his dealings since Ostagar.  Ostagar is the shady business he dealt, but from that point on, he makes his intentions, and motivations clear.  Alistair, on the other hand has been undermining your efforts, from within, by withholding information that could be useful.  When your in a romance PC states that she doesn't know who he is, he proves just how accurate that statement is by throwing a hissy fit.  He then expects you to apologize to him for his lies, and then feels perfectly justified for being an ass to you about your apology.  So much so, in fact, that "Or you could just be an ass" is written into your dialog choices.  Now, if you bootlick your way through that scene, it's all peachy, but if you call him on being an ass for expecting you to apologize for his lies, you lose 15 or so approval, and he breaks up with you.  This is your hero.  Frankly, you can have him.

Mr. Spock would fail to see the logic in this decision.


edited to add-> plus, let's not forget Sophia Dryden... forcing that political enemy to become a Grey Warden turned out really well, didn't it?

Actually, Mr. Spock would have agreed with Riordan.  His decision making wouldn't have been clouded by emotion.  Riordan states that there are compelling reasons to have as many Grey Wardens as possible to stop the Archdemon.  This would kick in the logic over emotion, even w/out knowing what the compelling reason is.  Once we find out what that compelling reason is, it surely proves that it was logical.

Modifié par robertthebard, 27 décembre 2009 - 01:41 .

[Recidiva]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

*sigh*

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Metagaming

When people justify that taking Loghain in is better for the country because then he can die, Alistair and PC get to live and Ferelden enters a golden age - that IS meta-gaming.

Feeling emotionally invested in a character you've spent hours with is NOT meta-gaming.

There are plenty of reasons to take Loghain beyond metagaming.  Riordan uses them and they're compelling.  And Riordan is the senior Grey Warden.   There's no reason to not feel in that moment that the Grey Wardens are now no longer illegal, and that Riordan, who was tortured directly as a result of Loghaine's orders, is now in charge and giving an order, not a suggestion.  There's no reason to think the final fight won't need every last possible Grey Warden on deck.

It's metagaming to know that doing so will lose you Alistair, despite any impulse of mercy, or strategy or Gray Wardenness asserting itself with Riordan as the senior Grey Warden offering a tactical advantage.

It's rather angry metagaming to realize you can't persuade Alistair to stay, and thus managing to negate any coolness in Alistair's otherwise beautifully written character, and relegate him to the terrible twos tantrum zone.

[robertthebard]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

MKATAKM wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...
You only do it because you are 1) meta-gaming or 2) hate Alistair and like to see him upset..
.

It is not meta-gaming when you hate Alistair? There is no real Alistair, he is as a meta-person as Loghain. LOL.

No.

Some people hate Alistair's voice, they hate his frowny face, they hate the way he waves his hands by his head in the fade as he disappears, none of that is meta-game knowledge at all....

Hating a character for how they act in game is not metagaming.  Metagaming is knowing what will happen if you do this that or the other thing, and choosing the thing that will give you the more favorable outcome according to what you want, instead of doing what your character would do.  If you do not base your opinion of a character for what they are represented in game, but instead say "Well, If I harden him, and put somebody behind him to hand walk him through it, he can be a good puppet King", this is metagaming.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I just really fail to see the logic in sparing him at that point, pre-why-we-need-Grey-Wardens talk, unless of course you just make a habit of sparing everyone.

Because he yielded perhaps? Tis a Knightly thing to spare someone whom knows when he has been beaten.

Granted there is an example of this going slightly wrong earlier in the game with the bandits on the road to lothering, but in that instance, they have their chance to submit, they refused the grounds given to them after, they get run through. Loghain agrees with whatever you choose, thus is deserving of being spared.

Sorry just been watching my namesake get his arse saved by Prince Edward the Black and for some reason the scene reminded me of this one.

[robertthebard]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I can honestly say I never killed Loghain for any other reason than because he deserved to die, and 9 times out of 10, never even had a choice in the matter as (like my first playthrough) I let Alistair duel him.

Letting Alistair, the next king-to-be, do the duel seemed fitting and just, and when you do that, we all know what happens now.

I just really fail to see the logic in sparing him at that point, pre-why-we-need-Grey-Wardens talk, unless of course you just make a habit of sparing everyone.

Now, if Riordan DID tell Alistair why it was so important to have as many as possible and he STILL acted up, I could more easily understand people's frustration with his reaction.

Yeah, we all know what happens when you allow Alistair to do the duel.  The duel, which is declared by the Landsmeet to be until one or the other party yields, becomes a fight to the death.  Another example of why Alistair, left to his own devices, shouldn't even be in charge of himself.

[SarEnyaDor]

Obvioulsy you don't know Spock the way I do.



I don't know why I'm defending Alistair here, but he *doesn't* always lie to you, but yes, he could have. Especially if you didn't really talk to him much and you go to Redcliff first, which is what I did as he suggested, and despite not wanting to lead, he does make suggestions, which I followed.



And all of those conversations are choices you made, not written into stone, many of us just said "Wow, I understand why you might not have wanted to be king" and didn't blow up at him and so therefore didn't even see the option to call him an arse until their douche-bag playthrough many times later (which I totally used and laughed at)



And back to Spock, he would have totally pwned Loghain with one of those pointy q-tips of doom with a snazzy don-don-da-da-da-don beats playing in the background.



If Riordan explains himself, it would change things, but he doesn't, and expecting a man do go against everything for the sake of "I have a reason I don't wanna tell you about" isn't good enough.



Also, if Riordan cared enough, he could have conscriped Loghain out from beneath my PC's nose, but he didn't.

[Xandurpein]

I can see the view of the OP. I felt exactly the same when it happened. After giving it some thought I can at least identify myself with his reason, even if I think he is in fact punishing all of Ferelden for what I did, and that is just wrong. I also think that the fact that he ends up a drunken wreck indicates a strong amount of self-hatred, that probably means that inside he knows running away was wrong too.



That said I have only two issues with the Landsmeet scene I wish they had done differently.



1. I wish they had thorwn in some scene that gave me a chance to anticipate Alistairs tantrum at the Landsmeet. Some conversation where you suddenly see him stop being the usual sort of shy whiny Alistair and sound really venomous about Loghain. Something that would have made you think "whoa! that was sensitive".



2. I miss having a third option at the Landsmeet: To just throw Loghain in jail and have him sentenced by a court. If I roleplay a human noble I can either kill a man who has surrendered, and feel I violate the rules of the duel, or I have to make Loghain a Grey Warden. I didn't want to do any of it. It would probably end up the same. If you make Anora queen she'll probably do as Riordan wants. Alistair can have his tantrum and leave if he has too, but I can roleplay the role I want, or Alistair becomes king and executes him, which again changes little, but I can still RP it better. If you have Alistair and Anora marry, they would probably have a serious row about Loghain and it would probably lead to an end in which Ferelden besomes torn apart because the King and Queen hates each other. It shouldn't have been that hard to implement.



Finally I definitly agree with those who think it's up to everyone who wants to decide how they want to RP thir treatment of Loghain. It's stupid to say that you can't roleplay a character who would think it's best for Ferelden to have Loghain become a Grey Warden.

[BroBear Berbil]

Alistair doesn't "lie about his heritage" he simply isn't forthcoming with you about his history if a) he doesn't like you or he's not with you. Lying and simply not telling are very different things imo.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Riordan only felt the need to explain himself after the landsmeet because up till that point he is of the assumption the PC and Alastair know about the sacrifice. It is due to the actions at the Landsmeet that Riordan realises he needs to but in, he can't really 'pull you to the side' at that point because it would reinforce Loghain's assumption of the Wardens, being all secretive.

Granted I agree at this point Riordan really should have stepped up and took on the 'senior warden' position he is supposed to have, but I can partially see why he doesn't sadly from a gameplay mechanic rather than the RP mechanic it should (gameplay being PC is in charge). The only other trouble then is, you would still lose Alastair because of it unless Riordan lets out to the whole of the Landsmeet one of the Warden's darkest secrets.

Edit: Personally speaking, I totally understand why Alastair doesn't tell the PC, firstly he only just met them recently and secondly as he says some people are most likely to change their opinion of him if they found out he is of royal blood. Either hating him or worse wanting to use him... the funniest thing is, the latter IS to some extent what actually happens.

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 27 décembre 2009 - 02:09 .

[MKATAKM]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

*sigh*

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Metagaming

When people justify that taking Loghain in is better for the country because then he can die, Alistair and PC get to live and Ferelden enters a golden age - that IS meta-gaming.

Feeling emotionally invested in a character you've spent hours with is NOT meta-gaming.

Further discussion on what metagaming is would mean to stray from the topic. And, my friend, don't you ever check your inbox

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I see nothing out of character, or even "wrong" with Alistair leaving if you go in cahoots with Loghain. Everyone has a line in their mind that should never be crossed, no matter what your relationship is. A breaking point, where you have done something that is the unforgivable sin, and all oaths, ambitions, loyalties, and beliefs can be shattered, and they turn.



And, lest people seem to forget, drinking the darkspawn blood and surviving the joining does not magically remove your own unique human and personal flaws and strengths. Nor does it magically make you a "duty first, no matter what" individual. To actually grasp just what lengths you must go to as a Warden does not suddenly pop into your head. That sort of singleminded pragmatism comes through years and years of experience and influence around senior Wardens. Alistair has neither. So one cannot honestly expect him to truly grasp the magnitude of just what that really means. He hasn't been a Warden much longer than you have. He may know the Warden oath, and knows that Duncan says extreme measures are often needed. But to truly UNDERSTAND it is very very different.



Of course, I haven't spared Loghain thus far, because from a character RPG point of view, there has been no justification. None of my characters see any good reason to do so, and more reason to kill him. Riordan, to my characters, is someone I do not know, even if he is a senior Warden. I shall trust my own experience and knowledge in this issue over his. He might be willing to overlook Loghain's crimes. But since Riordan's only arguement at the time is "he'll be a good Warden", I shall not.



And for those who think they are "punishing" Loghain by making him a Warden, then you clearly are not seeing Alistair's point of view. To him, being a grey Warden is not a probation/community service project where bad people can work off their sentance. It's an honor to be one, a reward. Letting Loghain join you is basically rewarding him for the betrayal and destruction of everything he held dear. A sort of congressional medal of honor for a guy who wipes out your family and spends months or years trying to destroy you. Yeah, I'd be pretty pissed off, and I'd tell the Wardens to stuff it, too.

[SinYang]

Alistairs outburst was all emotion based, If Duncan allowed himself to follow that path, (as Human noble) you & Duncan would probably be dead at highever from howe.

And it's character breaking that Alistair has his own mind and desires and decides not to just accept your decision? It's probably the only time in the game that you can't sucker him into agreeing with you. If you listened to him at all during the game you would know Duncan and the other Wardens were like his family and Cailan *is* family, for what that's worth to Alistair, and all of them get killed because of Loghain. Why should he suddenly say, "Sure Loghain let's be comrades!"

Including YOU.. the main character as family, he turned his back on you... no one said Alistair & Loghain had to be buddies. He left your parties fight against the Blight, aswell the friendship...Yet he didnt mind Morrigan coming along.. Apostate (He is a templar) because it suited.

Infact he even talks about you being his only family now.. after Lothering. Battling the Blight comes first and
Alistair failed in that task.. not my PC.

The Joining ritual itself couldve meant Loghain's death.

Modifié par SinYang, 27 décembre 2009 - 02:08 .

[SarEnyaDor]

I'm with Xandu on the "throw in jail" option, I would have taken that if it were available, but it really seemed like a death or cake option to me, and Loghain deserves no cake!



Also, I wasn't saying I thought people who chose to have Loghain were stupid and playing wrong, I was saying that being upset with Alistair over his really-easy-to-understand-reaction was silly. Unless you left him in camp and never talked with him at all you should have seen that coming, or at least a version of it... unless you thought a nice golem statuette would make it all better?



Sadly, action figures can only heal so much.....

[Kinaori]

I think it's absolutely in character (and understandable) for Alistair to be pissed if you spare Loghain. I do find myself wondering though, if it's in character to walk away from the Blight like that. Duncan surely would not have approved of *that*, even given what Loghain did to the Wardens. Walk away from the jerk who decided not to kill Loghain, sure. But walk away from the *Wardens*? I dunno.



It would have been cool if Alistair just showed up on the rooftop along with Eamon and Irving and all those other guys that just show up. It would be more fitting, I think. Then once the Archdemon was down, if Loghain is still *up*, off the guy. Or something. I dunno, lol.

[robertthebard]

OnionXI wrote...

Alistair doesn't "lie about his heritage" he simply isn't forthcoming with you about his history if a) he doesn't like you or he's not with you. Lying and simply not telling are very different things imo.

A lie of omission is still a lie.  This fact is used regularly by the Morrigan Haters Club concerning the ritual.  However, the fact is that knowing that the heir apparent to the throne is alive and well, and standing right beside you is surely useful information, no?  In fact, if you directly ask him if he knows who his father is, he will lie.  He only comes clean when you go to Redcliffe, if he's even with you, because he knows Eamon will spill his beans.  HIs approval rating has nothing to do with his telling you if you go to Redcliffe, he knows one way or the other his secret is out, so he tells you.

Regarding Spock, he would see the logic first, because his decision isn't weighted with the emotional kneejerk reactions.  Also, assuming Spock as a Grey Warden, it wouldn't be prudent to spill out any pertinent details about a secretive order in front of the whole of the governing body of Ferelden.  I was frankly disappointed that Riordan didn't conscribe Loghain, but I also understand why.  This is a decision that the devs wanted you to make, and wanted you to bear the responsibility for.

[Recidiva]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I see nothing out of character, or even "wrong" with Alistair leaving if you go in cahoots with Loghain. Everyone has a line in their mind that should never be crossed, no matter what your relationship is. A breaking point, where you have done something that is the unforgivable sin, and all oaths, ambitions, loyalties, and beliefs can be shattered, and they turn.

And, lest people seem to forget, drinking the darkspawn blood and surviving the joining does not magically remove your own unique human and personal flaws and strengths. Nor does it magically make you a "duty first, no matter what" individual. To actually grasp just what lengths you must go to as a Warden does not suddenly pop into your head. That sort of singleminded pragmatism comes through years and years of experience and influence around senior Wardens. Alistair has neither. So one cannot honestly expect him to truly grasp the magnitude of just what that really means. He hasn't been a Warden much longer than you have. He may know the Warden oath, and knows that Duncan says extreme measures are often needed. But to truly UNDERSTAND it is very very different.

Of course, I haven't spared Loghain thus far, because from a character RPG point of view, there has been no justification. None of my characters see any good reason to do so, and more reason to kill him. Riordan, to my characters, is someone I do not know, even if he is a senior Warden. I shall trust my own experience and knowledge in this issue over his. He might be willing to overlook Loghain's crimes. But since Riordan's only arguement at the time is "he'll be a good Warden", I shall not.

And for those who think they are "punishing" Loghain by making him a Warden, then you clearly are not seeing Alistair's point of view. To him, being a grey Warden is not a probation/community service project where bad people can work off their sentance. It's an honor to be one, a reward. Letting Loghain join you is basically rewarding him for the betrayal and destruction of everything he held dear. A sort of congressional medal of honor for a guy who wipes out your family and spends months or years trying to destroy you. Yeah, I'd be pretty pissed off, and I'd tell the Wardens to stuff it, too.

But Alistair and the game writers should know that if Riordan is a Gray Warden the same way Duncan was a Grey Warden, Alistair would have been gutted right then to protect Gray Warden secrets, as he is no longer loyal to them in any way.

And that's the point at which I think Alistair's brain should have spontaneously exploded and saved me the trouble of dealing with his inability to think straight.

It's not a benefit to "feel crooked" over "thinking straight" when the penalty for being dumb in the game is messy, ugly, instant death.  Alistair not picking up on that just makes it worse.

Modifié par Recidiva, 27 décembre 2009 - 02:14 .

[SarEnyaDor]

So, to fix this situation we need to add: Riordan conscripting Loghain and then gutting Maric's heir in front of the whole of Ferelden nobility for his reaction to it, then a fight where PC has to chose between Ferelden or the Grey Wardens.... =D

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Kinaori wrote...

I think it's absolutely in character (and understandable) for Alistair to be pissed if you spare Loghain. I do find myself wondering though, if it's in character to walk away from the Blight like that. Duncan surely would not have approved of *that*, even given what Loghain did to the Wardens. Walk away from the jerk who decided not to kill Loghain, sure. But walk away from the *Wardens*? I dunno.

It would have been cool if Alistair just showed up on the rooftop along with Eamon and Irving and all those other guys that just show up. It would be more fitting, I think. Then once the Archdemon was down, if Loghain is still *up*, off the guy. Or something. I dunno, lol.

Duncan imo would've slapped Alastair silly or worse run him through for trying to desert his duty as a Warden.

Also imo it isn't just a 'Desertion of the Wardens' but a 'Desertion of Ferelden', they need all able bodied men and women that can fight to do so and Alastair thinks he can just walk away from that. Sorry but the only way he could do that is if he is King and if he isn't then it is either fight or be like that guy in the cell at Ostagar.

The same applies to Loghain, making him a Warden really brings the hammer home that he is obligated to take part in the battle. Forget all that honor rubbish that is just hype created by people whom don't truly know what it is to be a Warden. For one thing, Wardens can be anyone, from the lowest of the low cuthroat murdering rogues to the noble knights. Honor has nothing to do with it, having the ability to fight the darkspawn to the death does. Loghain has that ability, to not utilise it in some respects would be stupid, unless you really did think he deserved death for what he did. Alastair throwing a hissyfit, that is Alastair's issue not the Wardens. Although if the Warden is to take up the mantle of leader he should really have the option at that point to state to Alastair that he either sticks to his task or prepares to meet the maker.