232 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

scyphozoa wrote...
lol, I love this topic. People who are uncomfortable flirting with a fictional character, but so narcissistic that they don't want to reject him.

I suspect there's also an element of powergamers who cannot conceive of getting "negative points" for anything, despite the fact that you can easily earn maximum Friendship with Anders three times over during the course of the game.

Or at least this is their professed reasoning. I've always found it interesting how some people characterize Anders' brief disappointment as akin to shooting him in the head, or suggest that he is angry at you for the rest of the game-- or, alternatively, that he hits on you for the rest of the game even if you turn him down-- neither of which are remotely true... though I guess that kind of justification sounds better than saying "it made me feel uncomfortable".

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 septembre 2012 - 05:34 .

[Plaintiff]

TheWout wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

I didn't know that it's mandatory for people to click on the heart icon.

Alternatively: "Oh no a man made a pass at me, the horror!" 

Just tell him you aren't interested and resume being friends.  Not.  That.  Hard.

That's not how it worked and you know it.
And there is no need to play the homophobia card, since we are talking about a videogame.

You fail to see the real problem, and that is that the character seemed to be written by a straight guy imagining what homosexuals are like. (Over eager and flaunting their sexuality from the get-go)

Anders' romance was written by a woman. If you've played it, you'll know it's very emotional and sincere. Speaking as a homosexual, I think it's pretty much the best-written gay romance you're likely to find across a range of media, but I'm a sucker for damaged healers with a cause.

What do you want? He hits on you once, and never again unless you encourage him. If a gay men expresses an interest in sex, he's "flaunting" his sexuality? Straight men get to talk about sex all they want without dealing with any such accusations.

I'm scoured Youtube for this rumoured scene where Hawke supposedly verbally abuses Anders for daring to find him attractive. All I've found was this youtube clip, which covers all the dialogue options of this particular conversation: 

All Hawke says when rejecting Anders is "Don't go there", to which Anders replies "I hear you; strictly professional".

I fail to see what's so terrifying about that.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 20 septembre 2012 - 05:42 .

[Gabey5]

Reminds me of the mandatory Garrus bromance, especially when playing a Shepard who cares little for friends or family.

[thebigbad1013]

Less eager? Anders came on to my male Hawke, once, and I turned him down. I don't see the problem with that. OP, have you never had someone come on to you WITHOUT you first telling them that it's okay? I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

[LolaLei]

Shy witchy girl?

[Beerfish]

bigbad1013 wrote...

Less eager? Anders came on to my male Hawke, once, and I turned him down. I don't see the problem with that. OP, have you never had someone come on to you WITHOUT you first telling them that it's okay? I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

That is not really the issue, it's that it was a departure from the way most other romances had progressed in the past.  It's not a big issue in the grand scheme of the whole game but it felt forced.

[hoorayforicecream]

On a slightly related note, and since David is here... Hey David, didn't you say at some point that you specifically wrote a male companion to be as subservient and agreeable as possible to the player, and he ended up being the most popular male character ever?

[Battlebloodmage]

LolaLei wrote...

Shy witchy girl?

He's referring to Merrill, but I would hardly call her a witch.

[Battlebloodmage]

Beerfish wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Less eager? Anders came on to my male Hawke, once, and I turned him down. I don't see the problem with that. OP, have you never had someone come on to you WITHOUT you first telling them that it's okay? I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

That is not really the issue, it's that it was a departure from the way most other romances had progressed in the past.  It's not a big issue in the grand scheme of the whole game but it felt forced.

I remember Zevran took the initiative and hitting on me in DAO even when I'm romancing Morrigan. It's a bit of a stretch to say that there isn't a precedent.

[David Gaider]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
On a slightly related note, and since David is here... Hey David, didn't you say at some point that you specifically wrote a male companion to be as subservient and agreeable as possible to the player, and he ended up being the most popular male character ever?

Not quite. I hypothesized whether making a character completely servile and supportive of every single thing that player does would, in fact, make him more popular-- based on the fact that many of our more popular characters, like Minsc or HK-47 or, heck, even Varric-- don't actually oppose the player in any fashion.

The result was Deekin. You can make of that what you like.

[thebigbad1013]

Beerfish wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Less eager? Anders came on to my male Hawke, once, and I turned him down. I don't see the problem with that. OP, have you never had someone come on to you WITHOUT you first telling them that it's okay? I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

That is not really the issue, it's that it was a departure from the way most other romances had progressed in the past.  It's not a big issue in the grand scheme of the whole game but it felt forced.

Forced? Hmm...guess it's just me, but I'm actually surprised this became such a hot topic. When it happened during my first playthrough I pretty much just turned him down and moved on and never really gave it much thought after that.

[berelinde]

Beerfish wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Less eager? Anders came on to my male Hawke, once, and I turned him down. I don't see the problem with that. OP, have you never had someone come on to you WITHOUT you first telling them that it's okay? I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

That is not really the issue, it's that it was a departure from the way most other romances had progressed in the past.  It's not a big issue in the grand scheme of the whole game but it felt forced.

Did it? I thought it felt quite natural. Your character was supportive. Flirting happened. I found it to be a refreshing realistic, and a pleasant change from having to make the first move.

[TheWout]

David Gaider wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...
lol, I love this topic. People who are uncomfortable flirting with a fictional character, but so narcissistic that they don't want to reject him.

I suspect there's also an element of powergamers who cannot conceive of getting "negative points" for anything, despite the fact that you can easily earn maximum Friendship with Anders three times over during the course of the game.

Or at least this is their professed reasoning. I've always found it interesting how some people characterize Anders' brief disappointment as akin to shooting him in the head, or suggest that he is angry at you for the rest of the game-- or, alternatively, that he hits on you for the rest of the game even if you turn him down-- neither of which are remotely true... though I guess that kind of justification sounds better than saying "it made me feel uncomfortable".

Are you calling me a homophobe?

[Plaintiff]

Beerfish wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Less eager? Anders came on to my male Hawke, once, and I turned him down. I don't see the problem with that. OP, have you never had someone come on to you WITHOUT you first telling them that it's okay? I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

That is not really the issue, it's that it was a departure from the way most other romances had progressed in the past.  It's not a big issue in the grand scheme of the whole game but it felt forced.

Not really. Zevran is extremely flirty with the Warden, unless he's told to knock it off. And since previous games didn't have a clear indicator of which dialogues would/would not initiate a romance, my perspective of Origins is that I was constantly getting romantic overtures from Leliana and Morrigan that I had done nothing to encourage.

If Anders really is the first LI to make the first move, then more power to him. I only wish more people, in games and real life, would take the same initiative.

[Battlebloodmage]

TheWout wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...
lol, I love this topic. People who are uncomfortable flirting with a fictional character, but so narcissistic that they don't want to reject him.

I suspect there's also an element of powergamers who cannot conceive of getting "negative points" for anything, despite the fact that you can easily earn maximum Friendship with Anders three times over during the course of the game.

Or at least this is their professed reasoning. I've always found it interesting how some people characterize Anders' brief disappointment as akin to shooting him in the head, or suggest that he is angry at you for the rest of the game-- or, alternatively, that he hits on you for the rest of the game even if you turn him down-- neither of which are remotely true... though I guess that kind of justification sounds better than saying "it made me feel uncomfortable".

Are you calling me a homophobe?

Please don't put words into people's mouth. There is nothing in his post calling you such. Lighten up.

[Maria Caliban]

TheWout wrote...

 
What bothered me in DA2 was the overeagerness of Anders to get in my pants and the lack of control i had over this event.

It literally felt like:

"Hey Anders, cheer up buddy, i have your back"

*You are now romantically involved with Anders*

On the other hands, in order to get Witch Girl even remotely interested in me, i had to face death itself and if i missed a single event, i could forget about the whole thing.

A little bit more realism in this would be appreciated.

If you don't think over-eager dudes is realistic, you live in a different reality than I.

Some people are hard to get. Some people are hard to get rid of.

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...
lol, I love this topic. People who are uncomfortable flirting with a fictional character, but so narcissistic that they don't want to reject him.

I suspect there's also an element of powergamers who cannot conceive of getting "negative points" for anything, despite the fact that you can easily earn maximum Friendship with Anders three times over during the course of the game.

Or at least this is their professed reasoning. I've always found it interesting how some people characterize Anders' brief disappointment as akin to shooting him in the head, or suggest that he is angry at you for the rest of the game-- or, alternatively, that he hits on you for the rest of the game even if you turn him down-- neither of which are remotely true... though I guess that kind of justification sounds better than saying "it made me feel uncomfortable".

The scene raises the specter of  "ninjamancing" which has been a problem in Bioware games in the past.  If you didn't shut down a character quick and hard, you may end up in a romance you didn't intend (I always feel bad rejecting Liara in ME1, and Tali in ME2).  So yes it probably "made people feel uncomfortable" though not necessarilly in the way you mean.

One thing I'll say about ME3, the romance dialogues did a very good job in making it obvious when you were at a crossroads in the relationships and allowed you to naturally deflect unwanted romances without seeming a jerk.  

Not everyone likes to be fawned on by every single potential LI in the game. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Nyoka wrote...

Imagine the world if the Anders avalanche happened each time a boy makes unwelcome advances towards a girl and gets sulky for two minutes when rejected.

I vastly prefer getting a two or three rivalry points and a two minutes long sulk from a companion than having my own character act in ways the dialogue wheel didn't remotely hint at *ahem Femshep&Jacob coughcough*. Now THAT'S something to avoid please.

You're his prize. You should at least be able to punch him in the nuts in ME3.

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...
On a slightly related note, and since David is here... Hey David, didn't you say at some point that you specifically wrote a male companion to be as subservient and agreeable as possible to the player, and he ended up being the most popular male character ever?

Not quite. I hypothesized whether making a character completely servile and supportive of every single thing that player does would, in fact, make him more popular-- based on the fact that many of our more popular characters, like Minsc or HK-47 or, heck, even Varric-- don't actually oppose the player in any fashion.

The result was Deekin. You can make of that what you like.

Hey, Deekin Scalesinger was awesome!

...what?

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

I don't see where Anders was pushy about the romance. I romanced him once and other times I did not. I always just chose the leafy icon after the first time he hit on me. That is just the way that Anders is. From Origins and Awakenings he was always the flirty type when he talked. Never took that as he was hitting on me. I know people in real life who are that way. He is/was a charismatic kind of guy. He never held it against my Hawke when I turned him down. The only straight up bromance that you are going to get is Varric since he was not a LI to begin with.

[Plaintiff]

TheWout wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...
lol, I love this topic. People who are uncomfortable flirting with a fictional character, but so narcissistic that they don't want to reject him.

I suspect there's also an element of powergamers who cannot conceive of getting "negative points" for anything, despite the fact that you can easily earn maximum Friendship with Anders three times over during the course of the game.

Or at least this is their professed reasoning. I've always found it interesting how some people characterize Anders' brief disappointment as akin to shooting him in the head, or suggest that he is angry at you for the rest of the game-- or, alternatively, that he hits on you for the rest of the game even if you turn him down-- neither of which are remotely true... though I guess that kind of justification sounds better than saying "it made me feel uncomfortable".

Are you calling me a homophobe?

I don't think that's what he meant at all.

Feeling uncomfortable about unwanted sexual advances is normal for everyone, regardless of who they come from.

He is saying that your desire to keep on good terms with Anders might be causing you to overreact slightly:

Hawke's rejection of Anders is not that bad, in fact, it's downright polite. Anders experiences a brief disappointment and then moves on with his life, and you can easily acheive maximum friendship through other means. And getting rivalry points isn't a 'punishment' anyway.

[Battlebloodmage]

Rpgfantasyplayer wrote...

I don't see where Anders was pushy about the romance. I romanced him once and other times I did not. I always just chose the leafy icon after the first time he hit on me. That is just the way that Anders is. From Origins and Awakenings he was always the flirty type when he talked. Never took that as he was hitting on me. I know people in real life who are that way. He is/was a charismatic kind of guy. He never held it against my Hawke when I turned him down. The only straight up bromance that you are going to get is Varric since he was not a LI to begin with.

No one like the bromance with Aveline? I'm surprised. Varric and Aveline are my go-to bros.

[Wulfram]

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm scoured Youtube for this rumoured scene where Hawke supposedly verbally abuses Anders for daring to find him attractive. All I've found was this youtube clip, which covers all the dialogue options of this particular conversation: 

All Hawke says when rejecting Anders is "Don't go there", to which Anders replies "I hear you; strictly professional".

I fail to see what's so terrifying about that.

Hmm, I'd only seen FemHawke's response.  ManHawke doesn't sound so squicked out, so it is better.

Still isn't ideal, though.  There should be an option which doesn't have a problem with it, but isn't a flirt.

[TheWout]

No, he's saying i am coming up with all kinds of reasoning to hide i would be "uncomfortable"

I find THAT offensive.


(although, he is not directing it at me personally, but in this context/thread it is)