242 réponses à ce sujet

[wunsleh]

Ezlo86 wrote...

I'm quite surprised that people are seriously expecting an apology from Bioware. Santa does not exist you know. You know what you'll get? A brand new game in about 3 years. The way you tell them to screw themselves is not buying it. That's how you vote.

But you know what? You will. Sorry.

Nope i won't I might play it but i'll not buy it. and many others won't as well.

[Xandurpein]

I don't necessarily want an apology. I'm still open to the idea that they still believe themselves that this is a great ending. After all, some people on BSN thinks the ending is great and I'm sure they are sincere, even if I hate it. I would like to see someone step up and explain why they thought this was a good ending, and what they think about the complaints. Do they recognize that with hindsight, they made a mistake, or do they think that they are just misunderstood. I suppose that I can understand why they feel uncomfortable sticking their neck out to meet the fans, but for me it has been the lack of communication, other than PR lingo, as much as the actual endings that have frustrated me.

[Sanunes]

It won't happen, Mass Effect 3 and its endings are out of the news cycle now, if they even approach it again it will become news again and people will use it as ammunition against BioWare.

Other companies have had massive failures with how things ended and they never apologized, for I am still waiting for mine from HBO about the Sopranos and Lucas still owes me several for how he has mangled Star Wars and Indiana Jones. At least BioWare gave us the Extended Cut which answered what looked like to be a lot of the complaints that were on these boards, of course not all of them were addressed, but enough to remove a lot of the "huh?" moments for me.

Xandurpein wrote...

I don't necessarily want an apology. I'm still open to the idea that they still believe themselves that this is a great ending. After all, some people on BSN thinks the ending is great and I'm sure they are sincere, even if I hate it. I would like to see someone step up and explain why they thought this was a good ending, and what they think about the complaints. Do they recognize that with hindsight, they made a mistake, or do they think that they are just misunderstood. I suppose that I can understand why they feel uncomfortable sticking their neck out to meet the fans, but for me it has been the lack of communication, other than PR lingo, as much as the actual endings that have frustrated me.

I get what you are saying, but I think we might have had a better shot at better communication if people on Day 1 weren't going to twitter and other sources and posting "You lied because x isn't exactly like this" and didn't want anything new to be used against them. 

Modifié par Sanunes, 21 septembre 2012 - 01:32 .

[a load of stanton]

its to late for an apology 7 months to late

the war rages on

[Ezlo86]

wunsleh wrote...

Nope i won't I might play it but i'll not buy it. and many others won't as well.

I think they will for the same reason that people are still bending over for Capcom. Their PR guy basically told the fans to stop acting like little b*tches over the day 1 dlc and all the unlockable characters that are already on the disc because that's how the industry works, and if you don't like that, well, tough cookies. But guess what, Resident Evil 6 comes out in 10 days and it's gonna sell like water in the Gobi desert.

I just think that the whole thing is way too overblown. It's in your right to be mad and say that they suck and that the game is garbage, but expecting them to say they're sorry? Not gonna happen.

[knightnblu]

If BioWare had apologized for lying to the fans long ago, then I could possibly see my way clear to cutting them some slack for it. I thought that the original ending was garbage, but BioWare certainly had a right to end it that way and to do so unapologetically. What BioWare had absolutely no right to do was to intentionally mislead their fans as to the nature of the ending.

BioWare did not admit any fault in the lies that they told us. They never apologized. They called the ending 'art' and maybe it was, but that was not the point. They have steadfastly ducked, dodged, and evaded any and all responsibility for the words that came out of their mouths that deceived the fans. So now, many people no longer trust them.

The senior executives at BioWare have since abandoned ship and I'm pretty sure that the firestorm ignited over the original ending had something to do with it. In a sense, Casey Hudson's mouth wrote a check that BioWare's behind couldn't cash and we are still witnessing the fallout.

While an apology would be a nice thing to do in general, it certainly won't help to redeem BioWare's reputation or the reputation of the sycophantic game "journalists" who do what the gaming companies tell them to do and who attacked the fans as being entitled when we were pissed off because we had been lied to.

In my view, an apology now would only add insult to injury.

[The RPGenius]

It depends entirely on what came with the apology. If the apology went along with a corrected ending where Destroy does not sacrifice the Geth and EDI, and/or Refuse can end successfully, then the apology would help a lot. The corrected ending would ensure that I would again buy their Mass Effect games and DLCs; the apology would make me glad to, and restore my good will with the company by proving that it values its product and its customers more than its ego. But an apology by itself is meaningless when the mistake remains unaddressed, so if it was just an apology, it would mean very little, if anything, to me.

This is all a useless exercise in speculation, of course. Bioware's made it clear that their policy with ME3 is arrogance, not reason or artistic consistency, so an apology is never going to happen. They were smart when the made Dragon Age have Pride as its most dangerous and powerful demon; few things can overwhelm one's mind, sensibilities, and even basic instinct so completely and destructively as hubris.

[Xandurpein]

Sanunes wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I don't necessarily want an apology. I'm still open to the idea that they still believe themselves that this is a great ending. After all, some people on BSN thinks the ending is great and I'm sure they are sincere, even if I hate it. I would like to see someone step up and explain why they thought this was a good ending, and what they think about the complaints. Do they recognize that with hindsight, they made a mistake, or do they think that they are just misunderstood. I suppose that I can understand why they feel uncomfortable sticking their neck out to meet the fans, but for me it has been the lack of communication, other than PR lingo, as much as the actual endings that have frustrated me.

I get what you are saying, but I think we might have had a better shot at better communication if people on Day 1 weren't going to twitter and other sources and posting "You lied because x isn't exactly like this" and didn't want anything new to be used against them.

Oh, I agree. There's been a lot of terrible communication from a segment of the fans too. I can totally see why people on the Mass Effect team don't want to appear on this forum. I do think that Bioware did make two huge errors in judgement though. First they misjudged how the ending would be recieved, and secondly they probably misjudged how the initial reaction on the boards from some fans should be handled, by letting the PR people take over. I don't know why they did that, but I can understand how they could have reasoned. It must have come as quite a shock to the developers to see the reactions on BSN. I'm sure someone at the top felt the need to protect their employee's from suffering the rage here,
but after that, the trenches had already been dug on both sides.

[RiptideX1090]

Ezlo86 wrote...

I'm quite surprised that people are seriously expecting an apology from Bioware. Santa does not exist you know. You know what you'll get? A brand new game in about 3 years. The way you tell them to screw themselves is not buying it. That's how you vote.

But you know what? You will. Sorry.

I love Mass Effect. I'm not throwing my hands in the air saying I'll never buy another Bioware game or that they're the devil.

What I am saying is I don't like the disrespect of blatant lying that led up to release, and the complete lack of admission of failures or mistakes on their part. I would gain a lot of respect for Bioware back if they could sit down, say they got in over their heads, they're sorry for lying to us and that they know they made some mistakes.

There is a case to be made for being silent and showing us they're sorry by making the next game phenomenal. I want the next game to make up for all this. But at least admitting they didn't do some things the best way they could have would really go a long way to giving them back some credibility.

[Grubas]

Its never to late but the damage is done. Trust is gone.

[N7 Lisbeth]

I don't want an apology, I want a proper ending to a trilogy. They can still release one. Heck, even though I'm embittered that they've gone 6-7 months without accepting the obvious (that nobody likes their ending), I'd still pay for a DLC that changed the endings to allow one more option, or an enhanced Destroy that didn't sacrifice the Geth and EDI if you made peace between the Geth and Quarians, or a Refuse that didn't result in everyone dying.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 21 septembre 2012 - 04:02 .

[ld1449]

Ezlo86 wrote...

wunsleh wrote...

Nope i won't I might play it but i'll not buy it. and many others won't as well.

I think they will for the same reason that people are still bending over for Capcom. Their PR guy basically told the fans to stop acting like little b*tches over the day 1 dlc and all the unlockable characters that are already on the disc because that's how the industry works, and if you don't like that, well, tough cookies. But guess what, Resident Evil 6 comes out in 10 days and it's gonna sell like water in the Gobi desert.

I just think that the whole thing is way too overblown. It's in your right to be mad and say that they suck and that the game is garbage, but expecting them to say they're sorry? Not gonna happen.

I didn't. Don't plan to either. Not sure how much you're projecting your lack of self control in such things but when some people say they wont, they really really wont.

[3DandBeyond]

Apologies will change nothing now and can't fix or address what happened. Actions can. I think we all could have done better and dwelling on who bears the most blame is destructive and won't solve anything. A real renewed show of a desire to appreciate fans (who have loved these games) is needed. Doesn't mean they have to or will do anything. But they should. Give alienated fans a reason to want to be your customers. And don't paint us all as some crazies that want to destroy you. We aren't. We wouldn't be asking for a way to want to give you our money if we wanted to destroy you.

Please, don't apologize now. That's hollow. What would help is some way for a large group of people to feel good about the game's ending and not some torso in rubble that is like you thought the hero was garbage. And not some deranged idea where you have to do exactly what no rational person in the game ever wanted to do just to finish the game. Note, not win the war, because you don't win by giving the bad guy what he wants.

I think they need to do what writers are often told (something they didn't do in using the kid and having a conversation)--show, don't tell.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 21 septembre 2012 - 04:15 .

[Archonsg]

Legal would never let them do it.
It opens them up to a arse load in term of Liabilities.

They CAN release a "because of Fan's Demand" DLC for alternative endings but to apologize?
Never.
EA would have fits.

[Jayce]

They wont apologize for the ending and I don't believe they should. What I would like to see is an apology for all the rather nasty and condescending PR spin as well as the totally misleading Dev statements prior to release.

I can deal with major changes happening at the last moment or even because of things beyond their control but what I do dislike is them burying their heads and stonewalling when challenged. But I know we'll never get an apology even if we actually deserve one for that. It's all in the hands of EA's PR people and they spent the first 3 months of the ending debacle establishing themselves as condescending ****s who left most of the Bioware community staff to mop up their diarrhea, why would they suddenly change tack now?

And thats perhaps the biggest lesson for them for Mass Effect 4. I was pretty moderate in my ending hate, even stated a thread on here at them time saying how much I liked it even if I thought it had issues. And you know what put me firmly in the retake camp? EA's PR.

They've burnt a lot of goodwill. I'll never preorder a Bioware game again and I'll treat any DEV statement from now on with extremely jaded skepticism. I hope others exercise similar discretion with ME4. Though I know most will simply lap it up.

I now wait to see if Bioware still lives or if all we have left is EA Edmonton.

Modifié par Jayce F, 21 septembre 2012 - 04:33 .

[N7 Lisbeth]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Apologies will change nothing now and can't fix or address what happened. Actions can. I think we all could have done better and dwelling on who bears the most blame is destructive and won't solve anything. A real renewed show of a desire to appreciate fans (who have loved these games) is needed. Doesn't mean they have to or will do anything. But they should. Give alienated fans a reason to want to be your customers. And don't paint us all as some crazies that want to destroy you. We aren't. We wouldn't be asking for a way to want to give you our money if we wanted to destroy you.

Please, don't apologize now. That's hollow. What would help is some way for a large group of people to feel good about the game's ending and not some torso in rubble that is like you thought the hero was garbage. And not some deranged idea where you have to do exactly what no rational person in the game ever wanted to do just to finish the game. Note, not win the war, because you don't win by giving the bad guy what he wants.

I think they need to do what writers are often told (something they didn't do in using the kid and having a conversation)--show, don't tell.

^ This. That sums it up best as far as I'm concerned.

At least, if Bioware/EA wanted some good publicity and to make money as well, they should strongly reconsider their "no more changes to the endings" stance.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 21 septembre 2012 - 04:55 .

[Dmthoth]

I don't need apology. Just need Shepard in ME4

[Ezlo86]

ld1449 wrote...

I didn't. Don't plan to either. Not sure how much you're projecting your lack of self control in such things but when some people say they wont, they really really wont.

Projecting my what? I will be buying the next games and have told so many times around here. But if I were to boycott something, for sure it wouldn't be in the form of the whole song and dance people have been making of it for the past 6 months.