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To those that still hate the ending, how much would an apology do?


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#151
Ozida

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The Smitchens wrote...

Ozida wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

They already offered an apology in the form of the extended cut

Well, what about an apology in form of an apology?

Well said!


How is that well said?  I'm sorry to harp on this, but I'm completely obfuscated by this.  BioWare says "sorry have free content" and he says "not good enough.  Give me a real apology".  Had he at the least included what he would like to have that could oust free DLC as a better qualifying apology as to qualify his opinion then maybe I wouldn't be writing this, but it's just left there hanging like little more than the rhetorical question that it is.


Well, it is obvious that many people did not see EC as an apology. Once again, referring back to my earlier posts, some found that BioWare did not treated upset players well and released EC only to keep people
quit and stop dropping sales. If they dared to set a price on EC, I can bet that it would've been the biggest ***storm in the history, and BioWare was smart enough to give it out for free. But some (including myself) believe that it was done for marketing purposes, not because of good intentions. Long story short: for many, EC isn't really an "apology".

And, besides, it was a good play on words, so I think it was well said. :P

Modifié par Ozida, 20 septembre 2012 - 10:07 .


#152
Chardonney

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BonFire5 wrote...

Note, I don't really care about Jacob, forgot he was on the ship a couple of times, but his ME3 "romance" reads like crap.


I actually disliked Jacob from the beginning in ME2 but yes, his ME3 romance is as bad as Thane's. :unsure:

#153
BonFire5

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Chardonney wrote...

I actually disliked Jacob from the beginning in ME2 but yes, his ME3 romance is as bad as Thane's. :unsure:


Would've made slightly more sense if Kasumi had romanced him or something, could also make a good reason for her not returning to the Normandy other than "Last time you recruited me for a Suicide Mission"... I need a Werther's Original or something... Some shoddy writing.

#154
Niviob

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Massa FX wrote...

They don't need to apologize to me. Just do better next time.


I agree.

I loved the game but I did not find the ending true to my expectation. I don't expect a apology because the rest of the game is still worth it. I think that Bioware can do better next time, that would be an apology for me...

.. I understand that some people didn't see EC as an apology but as a way to ''save their ass''. Each one has his opinion. When I think about EC, I tell myself ''well.. they could have done simply nothing'' But they still did Extended Cut DLC. Had they done nothing I would have been of those still expecting an apology.

Thats the way I see things anyway...

(i apologize for my english)

#155
frostajulie

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no. A new ending would though one tha rivals the suicide mission in ME2 and turns the ems bar graph into a series of missions with various squad make ups and cut scenes that make the entire game worth while again.

#156
wunsleh

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111987 wrote...


M25105 wrote...

111987 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Vocal minority doesn't get in the mainstream news
. In fact I've seen people who defend Synthesis still hating the kid. Actually after 6 months to my recollection of reading this forum I can only remember a handful of people actually liking the dumb kid. Everyone else recognises it for what it is, lazy cop out Contact inspired kid, trying to explain everything in a half assed way.


Au contraire, the vocal minority almost always makes mainstream news. Generally because they are more radical than the calm majority. But in any case, the existence of a Reaper leader should have been obvious to anyone since Mass Effect 2, and arguably even Mass Effect 1. The fact that the Reapers, despite being composed of different species and having different minds, all supported the cycle of harvesting, heavily implies the existence of a higher power.

After Thessia and the meeting with Vendetta, well, if you still hadn't seen the Catalyst coming, well, you ought to be paying more attention.


Au contraire my ass, this forum was on FIRE when we completed, hell my own youtube video and I usually never get more than 50 views had up 11,000 views after I made a rant how much the ending sucked with only 9 people disliking it. EVERYONE hated the stupid kid, and all the different polls always showed above 75+ % people hating the ending. 70,000 dollars was donated to a charity just to get Bioware to wake up and change the ending. So don't you dare call it a vocal minority when everything that we have seen so far points to exact opposite. You know what? Show me proof that only a vocal minority hated the ending and the kid. Go ahead, take your time, I'll wait.

Where was the BBC and CNN when gamers raged about Starcraft 2 or the death of Westwood? No where, why? Cause not enough cared to make that big of a deal about it. With this it did.

And don't give me that crap with that VI about the catalyst being a kid and what not, no one foresaw it. No one.

And by the way. ME 1 "We're each a nation, independent bla bla" Yeah doesn't sound like they got a leader there buddy.


I think you need to calm down a bit. There's obviously no point in having a discussion with you if you're going to grow enraged at people whom have different opinions then your own.

Since you're the one making the argument, the burden of proof is on you. And I find your evidence lacking and unsatisfactory because you've only cited one poll that accounts for less than 2% of the people whom actually played the game, and your sample size is biased because you are posting on a forum where only diehard fans, whom are the most emotional fans would have access to the poll.

Once again, the vocal minority always makes the news. It's the more interesting story. This made the news while other video game news didn't because the intensity of the fan rage was completely out of control.

Also, I once again point out the presence of a Reaper leader should have been obvious to anyone who gave any sort of thought about the Reapers. Not that it would take the form of a kid, but that's irrelevant.

Play Mass Effect 2 to understand how the Reapers are all each a nation, have personality, and yet are still bound by the direction of the Catalyst.





please keep talking about how we are a 'vocal minority', every social page i've visited so far showed me otherwise.

Retakemasseffect 64.504
support bioware page: 609

there's your proof and i once again direct you to the polls that have been taken. this is not a vocal minority and vocal minority's do make the news, i agree, HTL/RME just aint a minority ;)

research indicates that for every complaint expressed there are over 25 unregistered complaints.

if for example if we would take Retake's facebook page than we would eventually end up well over the 1.8 million complaints alone (if we were to look purely at the facebook page)

Where is this minority you speak of?


Space magic...space magic eveeeeryyywheeeere...:wizard:


Let's face it, Bioware screwed the pooch and they will definitely feel the repercussions on their next Mass effect game.

#157
clarkusdarkus

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Apologize and if its possible could they draw something on my back and i'll guess what it is?

#158
Sousabird

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Red Dust wrote...

They already offered an apology in the form of the extended cut, which is quite an improvement over the original endings.

It's time to let go. Get off the ledge.

Step back from that ledge my friend, and cut ties with all the lies that you've been living in, and if you do not want to see me again, I would Undeeeerrrsstttaaaaannd I would unnderrsttannnd

#159
Binary_Helix 1

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Ezlo86 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...
 
George Clooney apologized for Batman and Robin. He says he'll even refund anyone their ticket.


George Clooney had jacksh*t do to with the producing, scripting and directing of that movie. Go by that logic, and you'll have people asking Mark Meer for an apology. He was trying to be nice to the fans, but if you try to go to Warner Brothers and ask them to say they're sorry, they'll tell you to bent and get over yourself. As most people still butt hurt by the ending should.  


Joel Schumacher (the director) was fired and later apologized as well. Warner Brothers also went on to reboot the entire series and not interfere in the creative side again. Their demands are what led to Joel Schumacher in the first place.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 20 septembre 2012 - 11:10 .


#160
Uncle Jo

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What for? They've chosen their path and the damage is already done. All what is left for them is to stick to their artistic integrity and for the endings "haters" to bash it ad nauseam and/or move on.

I wouldn't give a f**k for an apology that will never come anyway...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 20 septembre 2012 - 11:17 .


#161
ld1449

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Red Dust wrote...

They already offered an apology in the form of the extended cut, which is quite an improvement over the original endings.

It's time to let go. Get off the ledge.


Bloated road kill would have been an improvement over the original endings.

#162
darkiddd

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Red Dust wrote...

They already offered an apology in the form of the extended cut, which is quite an improvement over the original endings.

It's time to let go. Get off the ledge.


^ FALSE

They know they ****ed up but their pride never let them say "ok guys we are sorry, here's what we are going to do to fix it"

Instead they said "ok we are going to EXPAND on our endings because SOME people felt they weren't given enough answers" and they just retconned what they could and offered stupid answers for what they could not including that glowy child I hate so much. They could not have the dignity to change what was broken.

I don't see this as an apology but a marketing trick.

#163
Hudathan

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wunsleh wrote...

please keep talking about how we are a 'vocal minority', every social page i've visited so far showed me otherwise.

Retakemasseffect 64.504
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If you really want to go down that road, at the moment there are officially 1,369,900 likes for the official Mass Effect Facebook page.

#164
The Night Mammoth

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I don't want, need, or really deserve an apology.

They did something that a lot of people hated, but that a lot of people liked.

What I do want is some sort of explanation as to why certain elements of the game are as they are. Not an attempt to defend their decision, but a reason why an entirely new character was introduced, or why the central conflict of the series was suddenly pulled from the nearest sphincter, wouldn't be missed.

#165
The Night Mammoth

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Hudathan wrote...

wunsleh wrote...

please keep talking about how we are a 'vocal minority', every social page i've visited so far showed me otherwise.

Retakemasseffect 64.504
support bioware page: 609

If you really want to go down that road, at the moment there are officially 1,369,900 likes for the official Mass Effect Facebook page.


Lets not. There was enough statistics willy waving when this all started. 

#166
Hudathan

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The Night Mammoth wrote...

Lets not. There was enough statistics willy waving when this all started.

I got baited, had to do it.

#167
Almostfaceman

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Hudathan wrote...

wunsleh wrote...

please keep talking about how we are a 'vocal minority', every social page i've visited so far showed me otherwise.

Retakemasseffect 64.504
support bioware page: 609

If you really want to go down that road, at the moment there are officially 1,369,900 likes for the official Mass Effect Facebook page.


That's not an ME3 facebook page.

So... really?

#168
drayfish

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Personally, I don't think they owe fans an apology for the content of the game – and I'm not sure I'd want one at this point anyway, it would feel far too contrived. Bioware have made the decision to stand by their text in its current form, indeed they expanded and clarified it so we know that this was indeed the message they wanted to convey . I suspect the most those unsatisfied will ever get is some backhanded, mealy mouthed promise to 'address the issues that disappointed fans in ME3' in the pre-release materials for ME4 (whatever that game turns out to be).

(I do, however, think they could stand to show a little humility for the utterly, shamelessly misleading promises they made about ME3's content in the lead up to release – for their own sakes as much as the fans. That whole 'A, B, or C' endings quote might haunt them for years.)

But ultimately I don't think they need to apologise because they are artists producing an artistic statement - I might despise, and be shocked by the clumsy witlessness of that message, but it is their right to make it in the manner that they see fit.

What I do think they should do however – what any artist in the same circumstance would be expected to do – is to explain their intent. Not apologise, but own it. Speak about what their mission statement was, and why they made the choices they did. Again, not an apology, but a statement of poetics: this is what we were hoping to convey.

An artist should never be compelled to change their art against their will, but I believe that they do have a responsibility to explain or defend their work. Authors, painters, directors, all have to stand by the material that they release into the world. A film-maker cannot produce a movie that seems to advocate racism or sexism or hate and simply refuse to speak about what they intended after the ticket sales have been counted (particularly not after saturating the market with quotations pre-release only to disappear in a puff of smoke after the audience sees it). To do so means that the work has either failed in its communicative purpose, or was never worthy of being called an artistic statement in the first place. 

And if – as appears to be the case with Mass Effect – the work has failed to have satisfactorily communicated its purpose to a good portion of its audience, I would have thought that the creators themselves would have been eager to voice their intentions, to give the work the context that for some it clearly needs. It's been over half a year, and so far all anyone has heard from Bioware (through more PR spiel leading up to the release of the EC) is that they stand by their message, and that they found it unfortunate that fans misinterpreted what they were trying to say... But still no explanation of what that message was that they were trying to communicate, or what moral or themes they intended their text to embody.

In that context, refusing to speak, hiding behind 'speculations', and hoping that some unsatisfied members of the audience will embrace IT as an alternate ending as long as the company does not outright discredit it, is neither artistic nor philosophically deep.  To me it suggests that perhaps they themselves are not even sure what the purpose of their text was. And how can you explain or apologise for something if you don't even know what you did?

Modifié par drayfish, 21 septembre 2012 - 12:14 .


#169
ziyon conqueror

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The type of apology that would be appeasing to me would be a DLC where Shepard beats the Catalyst's logic, Crucible is modified to target Reapers only (maybe add synthesis effects just to give everyone else enhancements), fireworks, medals, apologies from the Council, Shepard survives and reunites with LI (the main reason I fight for a better ending). I mean, it won't hurt to make a DLC for just that.

#170
Jere85

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OP: Apologize by fixing it. Id accept that.

#171
ld1449

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Hudathan wrote...

wunsleh wrote...

please keep talking about how we are a 'vocal minority', every social page i've visited so far showed me otherwise.

Retakemasseffect 64.504
support bioware page: 609

If you really want to go down that road, at the moment there are officially 1,369,900 likes for the official Mass Effect Facebook page.


My like is still there. Because I still like ME1 and ME2. I also completely forgot that thing even existed as I'm sure many people did. That Facebook page got very little coverage save for ONE occasion when somebody said that they had no plans to change the ending back during the first two weeks of the controversy and they had to wake up merizian at 3 AM as the page blew up and the "like" numbers you were touting dropped from the 2.7 million it was at (at least when I got there)

To 1.6 or so. One million people or so dropping their likes in little less than four hours or so speaks volumes. Especially when it all went down at like 11 PM eastern time when half the world was asleep.

I see the numbers have dropped even more since then.

So yeah....That poll really doesn't help. Especially since its tied to the other two games that people genuinely LIKE as opposed to this one that they all but despise.

#172
Eterna

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I think some people need to realize that it's over. You won't get a new ending, and you won't get an apology.

They've said this numerous times and yet people are still in denial. It's. Over.

#173
Xenharmonic

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The extended cut was your apology.
Instead of just words, they actually fixed the ending.

#174
The Night Mammoth

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Eterna5 wrote...

I think some people need to realize that it's over. You won't get a new ending, and you won't get an apology.

They've said this numerous times and yet people are still in denial. It's. Over.


Complaining about something I like fills time in the day. 

#175
The Night Mammoth

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Xenharmonic wrote...

The extended cut was your apology.
Instead of just words, they actually fixed the ending.


Partially fixed. 

And as we know you get no credit for partials.