270 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Waaaah someone likes something I don't like...

/runs off in a corner and sobs


...stay class BSN

Woah, never seen a post like this before.

Stay classy indeed. 

[eddieoctane]

vurtual3 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Unless you played with no Leviathan and no EC, you didn't play the original game. And the original was almost universally panned. Your first playthrough wasn't of the game, but the re-edited version which retroactively foreshadowed problem plot points. You should have played the game as it exists on disk, and then if you liked it your opinion would have more clout.

Universally panned with near perfect reviews I seem to recall...Having said all that EC and Leviathan (and I presume the next couple of sp dlcs will too ) have added a lot to the cohesion of the story and improved the ending thematically. While I wouldn't suggest for a minute that BW planned the response they got from a lot of dedicated ME fans I reckon it was always planned that the dlc would be very important to the story/themes rather than completely seperable like most ME2dlc. Whether we want it to or not ,dlc /microtransactions etc aren't going to go away and EA (and pretty much everyone else) are figuring how to maximise it best for themselves. *end of rant*

Critic vs consumer reviews. "Critics" loved it. I put it in quotes because the gaming media generally lacks credibility amongst their target audience. There is a long-standing perception that unless gaming magazines, networks, and website give favorable reviews, publishers will withhold future games, thus preventing a media outlet from having anything to review and very little content to provide. Unfortunately, there isn't even a handful of places whose opinions are regarded with any amount of esteem. At least Roger Ebert is generally considered an unbiased critic. But we gamers only have places like IGN to fall back to, who shouldn't have even gotten involved once one of their crew became part of the game and created a clear conflict of interest.

And while critics seemed so astounded by ME3, a huge portion of the fans were so thoroughly disappointed by the game that BioWare released the EC, and for free at that. If that's not an indication of how badly received the game was amongst consumers, then I am the only person on the entire planet who was unsatisfied and the EC was all an attempt to please me and me alone. Because EA and BioWare care about such an insignificant portion of their players. Wait, that sounds ridiculous. It's far more likely that BioWare needed to try to regain a huge portion of the people dissatisfied with the original content. So when I say "universally panned", I meant by the fans, and we have evidence to support that, including BioWare's actions.

One last thing. Clarifying the main plot via mid-game DLC is crap. It's all just retroactive foreshadowing, which is a complete oxymoron. Once the cat's out of the bag, you can't pretend it isn't. For the bulk of the players, nothing Leviathan, or any other DLC, can do will be a new experience. It's just an attempt by BioWare to reinforce a decision that a significant portion of the market already decided was wrong. And yes, the market decides what is right or wrong in this matter. Art for consumers is empirically bad when the target audience deems it so. And many of us have.

[MegaSovereign]

I think the original endings left a bad taste in peoples' mouth. So maybe not seeing the original endings helps make the EC stand out.

[AlanC9]

eddieoctane wrote...
Critic vs consumer reviews. "Critics" loved it. I put it in quotes because the gaming media generally lacks credibility amongst their target audience. 

The few reviews I saw from the mainstream press also loved it -- though that was a pretty short list.

[Xellith]

I wish I could look past the glaring errors in character, lore and plot too.

Modifié par Xellith, 21 septembre 2012 - 02:28 .

[eddieoctane]

AlanC9 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...
Critic vs consumer reviews. "Critics" loved it. I put it in quotes because the gaming media generally lacks credibility amongst their target audience. 

The few reviews I saw from the mainstream press also loved it -- though that was a pretty short list.

Who wrote those reviews, though? It's quite common for media outlets to get a person who normally works with another publication to write a review or to republish a review form elsewhere. I'm not saying this is the case, but a New York Times game review might be written by or republished from IGN. Few mainstream media outlets have inhouse game critics.

And as was said by others, many reviewers openly admitted to either not finishign the game or not being provided with the ending. If you walk out of a film with 10 minutes of runtime still left to go, the review you provide is worthless for that reason alone. I know this makes reviewing games harder, but it's also a much bigger investment for the consumer. $60 and 30 hours is much more of a drain than $15 and 1.5 hours, so we do deserve honest reviews that take everything, narrative, gameplay, graphics, audio, into account. A lot of reviews don't.

[shepskisaac]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

i remember reading something like this a few weeks ago with exactly the same title and exactly the same message

Yes, this kind of thread keeps coming back over and over again and that's because the ending IS much better with EC and even more with Leviathan. Even the biggest critics admit that the controversy would've never been this big if EC was there from the start.

[AlanC9]

eddieoctane wrote...

I'm not saying this is the case, but a New York Times game review might be written by or republished from IGN. Few mainstream media outlets have inhouse game critics.

Good thing you're not saying that. The NYT has a full time game reviewer (plus other electronic media stuff). Or rather, they did have. IIRC Seth Schiesel's left, and I don't think they have a permanent replacement.

Though they have republished some stuff from Kotaku or whatnot on occasion, yep. Not including their ME3 review.

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 septembre 2012 - 02:59 .

[dreman9999]

Baa Baa wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

I will never understand people who can look at the ending and the EC and honestly believe it's good.

would you have preferred an 'Independence Day' ending?

I was thinking more along the lines of "The Dark Knight Rises"

Ah that's funny you say that. Because the breathe scene is essentially the same exact thing as tge ending scene in TDKR.....only difference is that you see his face.

What's wrong? You wanted Shepard to be sitting in a Cafe with your L.I.? Is that it? Lol

Besides, critically, TDKR was Christopher Nolans worst movie he's ever done(granted, most of his movies are amazing, so the bar is set quite high). It was a fitting conclusion to the trilogy, but hardly better than mediocre overall. And the ending? What a cliched 'happy-go-lucky' conclusion. I'm sure you wouldve hated it had that Disney scene not been thrown in right before the credits.

Thanks for letting me know your point of view though. I completely understand your perspective on things now.....

No, the Legacy part of the ending is what I'm talking about, not the happy "rainbows" ending. I'm the kind of person who generally prefers depressing endings like Requiem for a Dream, The Elephant Man, or The Mist (some of my favorite movie endings), and I wouldn't have even had a problem with Shepard dying at the end of every ending, just as long as his death meant something. Shepard's death doesn't have any meaning though. You betray your allies then you're regarded as a hero, that is not the kind of thing a heroic character does.
And I would have actually been fine with Bruce dying at the end of the movie and Blake going into the cave. Either way I would have found the end extremely powerful.
So no, the problem for me is not the "it wasn't happy enough," the problem is that you feel as if you've become the antagonist of the story. Which could of course work in a single game, but not in a trilogy where you have to work for a hundred hours to reach the conclusion.
And that's hilarious that you think TDKR is mediocre yet you put ME3 on a pedestal.

Wait...You don't betray your alies in Control and Destory is an issue of calateral damage.

[dreman9999]

Xellith wrote...

I wish I could look past the glaring errors in character, lore and plot too.

You mean the ones not there.

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Waaaah someone likes something I don't like...

/runs off in a corner and sobs


...stay class BSN

Woah, never seen a post like this before.

Stay classy indeed. 

Your one to talk , 
Night Mammoth?

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

CINCTuchanka wrote...

Waaaah someone likes something I don't like...

/runs off in a corner and sobs


...stay class BSN

Woah, never seen a post like this before.

Stay classy indeed. 

Your one to talk , 
Night Mammoth?

You don't seem quite sure about that. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 21 septembre 2012 - 02:51 .

[FlamingBoy]

what is it with mass effect 3 and making people cry, I have seen this statement so many times

[Dharvy]

IMO, some people have valid reasons why they don't like the endings and others have valid reasons why they do. So I can understand why some don't like it but others do. Me, personally, I like at least what I see as the essence of what Bioware was trying to do and indeed its beautiful. They failed a bit in the writing or coming across clear in their ending.

The more and more I read the differing viewpoints on BSN I come back appreciating the ending more and also seeing where they made mistakes. But as someone said many seem to program themselves to hate the ending and refuse to listen to any reasoning's or explanations to make sense of it all.

Then some so called "anti-enders" come off with a borderline if not a full blown racist mentality, they take something a that could be a little vague and perceive some of the stupidest conclusions about the ending and then proceed to hate it because of what their minds came up with, even though there's proof and alternatives ways to see things.

[llbountyhunter]

Dharvy wrote...

IMO, some people have valid reasons why they don't like the endings and others have valid reasons why they do. So I can understand why some don't like it but others do. Me, personally, I like at least what I see as the essence of what Bioware was trying to do and indeed its beautiful. They failed a bit in the writing or coming across clear in their ending.

The more and more I read the differing viewpoints on BSN I come back appreciating the ending more and also seeing where they made mistakes. But as someone said many seem to program themselves to hate the ending and refuse to listen to any reasoning's or explanations to make sense of it all.

Then some so called "anti-enders" come off with a borderline if not a full blown racist mentality, they take something a that could be a little vague and perceive some of the stupidest conclusions about the ending and then proceed to hate it because of what their minds came up with, even though there's proof and alternatives ways to see things.

or maybe (just maybe) we ARE open minded, listen to the explanations and simply realize that the explaination is itself crap.


Also, I like me3,  I think tuchana and rannoch were moments or perfection in video game history.... but the endings? not so much.

[llbountyhunter]

FlamingBoy wrote...

what is it with mass effect 3 and making people cry, I have seen this statement so many times

you mean to tell me that you didnt shed a tear when Mordin died? 

what kind of person are you????

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I wish I could look past the glaring errors in character, lore and plot too.

You mean the ones not there.

Only if you're oblivious

[The Night Mammoth]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I wish I could look past the glaring errors in character, lore and plot too.

You mean the ones not there.

Only if you're oblivious

Which is pretty likely given who it is you're quoting. 

I went there dreman. I went there. 

[Conniving_Eagle]

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I wish I could look past the glaring errors in character, lore and plot too.

You mean the ones not there.

Only if you're oblivious

It was only an error if you didn't read the codex.

Modifié par dreman9999, 21 septembre 2012 - 03:47 .

[eddieoctane]

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I wish I could look past the glaring errors in character, lore and plot too.

You mean the ones not there.

Only if you're oblivious

It was only an error if you did read the codex.

So the game only has glaring faults if you pay attention to little details like the in-game infobank? Good to know.

[dreman9999]

eddieoctane wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I wish I could look past the glaring errors in character, lore and plot too.

You mean the ones not there.

Only if you're oblivious

It was only an error if you did read the codex.

So the game only has glaring faults if you pay attention to little details like the in-game infobank? Good to know.

I meant "didn't read."

[eddieoctane]

dreman9999 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I wish I could look past the glaring errors in character, lore and plot too.

You mean the ones not there.

Only if you're oblivious

It was only an error if you did read the codex.

So the game only has glaring faults if you pay attention to little details like the in-game infobank? Good to know.

I meant "didn't read."

Retconning? Who do you think you are? Casey Hudson?

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I wish I could look past the glaring errors in character, lore and plot too.

You mean the ones not there.

Only if you're oblivious

It was only an error if you didn't read the codex.

I did read it still say it's flawed. So now what?

[eddieoctane]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

I wish I could look past the glaring errors in character, lore and plot too.

You mean the ones not there.

Only if you're oblivious

It was only an error if you didn't read the codex.

I did read it still say it's flawed. So now what?

Before his retcon, dreman agreed with you.