270 réponses à ce sujet

[Kamfrenchie]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

munkyboy04 wrote...

Lol what's wrong with universal harmony?

People here will tell you it's an artificial harmony enforced by "space magic" and brainwashing rather than a natural result of ending the war by making peace and gaining considerably in knowledge and understanding. Also too many people assume it's meant to be really universal and eternal which there is no indication of. It's a generally peaceful galaxy, no doubt some small-scale conflicts exist, but they don't matter for the big picture at this time. It is a golden age, which is a good thing. It may last 100 years or 50000 years, but it will eventually end. That doesn't make it less desirable.

If you value peace over freedom then yeah I suppose.

However, I don't much care for being turned into a cyborg without consent.

Other than making a change in biochemistry that facilitates integration of technology (and nothing else), there is no infringement on your freedom.

You sound like the master of fallout 1
You don'tproactively know the extent of such transformation, how are you qualified to chose for me or anyone else?

[Kamfrenchie]

munkyboy04 wrote...

Just another question then, is there a right/correct ending to mass effect?

Yes



The only winning move is to turn off your game before Hackett phones you

[dreman9999]

ld1449 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


 "In the coup Cerberus infiltrates the citadel and damn near takes full control of it with a sizable army of people decked out in full armor, weapons, munitions, atlases ect. This is knowing that the Citadel is on relatively high alert with the war practically on everyone's doorstep, and the fact that according to Bailey in ME2 "Our scanners can lift DNA off of skin flakes"

I'm fairly sure an atlas is larger than a skin flake. "

1. This is the same system the failed to trake on failed cop who hacked the system and got by it ...Added the systemthat failed cop was takem by cerberus. Also, cerberus has many double agents in csec of years. Added, it was pointed out how bad csec security is in ME2 ANYWAY.

 "Even forgoing that its confirmed in ME2 that the Illusiveman only had FIVE cells of Cerberus Operatives. "
2.Sactuary explains the armies.

"Jacob's mission broke Jacobs Character for what few people actually romanced him with fem shep. "
3.The romance was based on physical attaction. You get what you paid for.

4. "Mars was stated to only be a small data cache in ME1 and ME2. But now in ME3 its a massive archive of Prothean information.  " 
http://masseffect.wi..._Prothean_Ruins 

01/10/2011 - Scientists on Mars Assess New Chamber in Prothean Ruins[/i]“Controversy brews tonight as scientists on Mars assess the contents of a newly opened chamber in the Prothean ruins. The opening has been a dream of exoarchaeologists for decades, delayed by the many steps necessary to replicate Prothean code keys and crack the cryptography for entry. Critics say the Milky Way Foundation, which provided supercomputers for the cryptanalysis, could hoard any Prothean discoveries. Dr. Unira T'Lam, liaison from the Citadel Committee on Paleotechnology, says she's been kept in the dark. "Foundation personnel have orchestrated a security system that keeps out everyone except a select cabal," she accuses. "Anything could be taken from inside and we'd never know." Dr. Ilsa Warren, who heads the analysis unit, dismisses the allegation. "We've made it clear all technology stays in situ throughout the cataloging and analysis process, which could take years," she says. "Dr. T'Lam's fears would be more appropriate closer to the end of the decade."”

"Fall of earth had a "Defense Comitee" that didn't know the first thing about defense. Go figure. "
5. That was the commitee the stated the reapers did not exsist if you killed off the council...Added, nothing can really stop a reaper invatsion.

. "Sanctuary had Miranda Lawson's father building a research facility for an influx of refugees that was fully operational, fully manned and capable of supporting a population of hundreds, if not thousands in less than six months. Just looking at the place I can tell you that should have taken at least a year and a half to build, if not double that time. It doesn't matter how much money you have, its the manpower and resources that go into it.  "
6.This is cerberus. Of course they can do it in 6 months. Nothing point to the fact they cant...

"
Not to mention that it was a clandestine building for the most part since no one heard of it until Kai leng showed up there.  "
7.Go to the persidium to the ads near where you meet Zaeed. It's next the the salarian and turan agueing over mods. There is an Ad for sactuarty there.
8. On prioity earth...look at my banner.

1. Like I said, Cerberus only had five cells. Moles in C-sec and information contacts is not the same as wetwork agents.

2. Sanctuary, as I said, was built in less than six months. In six months you expect me to believe that they built that place and an army? Even though sanctuary's "recruitment" could only have begin AFTER the reapers attacked and refugees had a reason to actually...you know...GO there? So what they built a time machine too? Send em back a few months into the past to help Kai Leng and his buddies fail to kill the council anyway.

3. All romances are based on phisical attraction. Its what people notice first, emotional feelings come later. It was the same with Garrus, Ashley and Liara. They showed signs of being phisically attracted to Shepard before the emotional stuff.

Or do you see a random woman walking down the road and are in love with her on an instictive intrinsic level and then say "Oh yeah she's hot btw"

4. Not in game, not even in the codex. Trust me, I've read it. They put it in like they did Emily wong's death, OUTSIDE the game, that's ****** poor story telling and afterthought base/ass covering. I'm sure half the people on this forum never even heard about it until you went to the wiki.

5. Not saying the comitee should have had the power to stop it. But goddamnit, if you're a DEFENSE comitee, you don't sit at a desk looking at eachother like bumbling idiots if arcturus was just blown to ****. You DO something. Because that's your job. Even if they said reapers didn't exist. Fine. They don't exist whoop dee freakin do. So prepare to fight Geth, Batarians, Krogans, Rachni, a pissed off council coming back to get you for letting the destiny ascencion blow up.

Instead they just sit there "Herp derp what do we do?"

"Uhhh isn't it like your job to KNOW the answer to that?"

"**** please I have people to do that for me.

6. Oh I don't know, how bout logistics? People seem to think that the more advanced construction tech gets the quicker things will go in building it when that's just bull****. Before, a building was a foundation, four walls and maybe two stories.

Now a building is a foundation, four walls, electric, plumbing, a plethora of measurments and calculations, architecture designs, support beams  columns, the works. **** gets more and more complicated as time goes on. A building of Cerberus design with all the tech they were putting into it, not to mention making it clandestine construction and out in the middle of nowhere space means that they had to bring those materials in off world most likely. That takes time, paperwork, money, them doing this whole thing in six months and then RECRUITING on top of that is like the US Mobilizing its entire military force to strike at Turkey in two hours with no prior warning whatsoever.

Never noticed the add, but still no one knows about the damn place at all. VS survivor even says it. "That's near horizon. The only cerberus presence there when I was stationed a few months ago was you guys."

Its bull****.

7. Meh, least we agree on something priority earth was boring as ****.

1,2,and 6. Ceberus had been experimnting on reaper tech for years so it not something suddenly with the tech. Also, the construction in the furture is faster. So in short, yes cerberus can make it with in 6 months and make an army.

4.So? It still part of the lore added, this info is also in mars. Read th log in the room after the machine gun room on Mars. It's also there.

5. It a reaper invastion. I don't expect them to do any thing. And you think a bunch of people who work best behind a desk is going to no how to do unconventional war? That more of something a person constatly inthe feild whoud know.(Hackett, Anderson.)

[ld1449]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...


1. A single mole, if placed well enough, can bring down anything.
2. Shepard's deeds in ME2 helped recruitment out. Or Cerberus could have taken people and indoctrinated them.
3. I romanced Tali because of her personality while I had no idea what she looked like.
4. It was in Mass Effect 2's Cerberus Daily News, so it was "ingame".
5. Arcturus was destroyed minutes before and they had several fleets defending Earth so they were doing the job.
6. Several companies working on different parts, then pre-fabbing it, then sending it to Horizon. Very plausible.
7. Won't comment

1. Not the point. The point is they had moles but they did not have a freaking army, nor was there any explanation as to how these weapons mannaged to get past citadel security along with about a half dozen atlases. I could see it happening if this was the opening act of the war and no one has their guard up but it isn't. With every council species under siege there are a lot of factors that would amp up security to the point of making any kind of smuggling almost impossible.

The council species know about indoctrination. They know that sovereign attacked and tried to take over the station before meaning this thing is a potential target and that the reapers could use agents again.

They know that piracy and medical profiteering are up, all of these are reasons to amp up security to the point that Cerberus' flawless coup should have been bull****, or at least should have run into a lot more snags than it did.

2. Again, Straw man argument. Cerberus is a clandestine black ops organisation, which was confirmed to only have five cells back in ME2. Not sure exactly how his actions could have helped out recruitment since no one outside the military knew about it. Its not like they were running adds in prime time TV.

"Commander Shepard defends humanity with Cerberus. Will you be like Commander Shepard?"

Furthermore the other poster stated that they recruited from Sanctuary, so his actions in ME2 would have had little to no bearing on that if they had any bearing to begin with.

3. You could see enough of Tali's face to know that she is atractive if the voice didn't give it away. Not to mention that body wise she is also attractive.

If she would have looked like this:

http://www.gophoto.i...pg#.UFyIdlFlnMI

I'm fairly sure thing's wouldn't have gone nearly as smoothly.

4. Mass Effect 2. Not Mass Effect 3 where this actually held some importance. Who in the bloody **** even remembered that after a whole year? Likely no one. Especially when half the time the Cerberus news network was filled with random meaningless gossip. "Today on Cerberus daily news the Asari Consort has left the Citadel to go on vacation" Who gives a rats ass?

5. They had NO fleets defending earth. Arcturus was their ultimate defensive line with the bulk of the third, fifth and second fleets under admiral Hacket. The moment that was broken through the only thing between the reapers and earth was Luna Base. which didn't even have a ground to orbit weapon. That was not the time to sit around and wonder what the hell they should do with themselves.

They were not doing their job, they were waiting around for Shepard for no other reason than protagonist imposed importance.

6. Again, logistics. I've actually worked with construction crews and again it doesn't matter how much money you throw at something. What you're saying is done by construction crews all the time, they get steel from company A, concrete from area B, glass windows from place C and so on and so forth. They don't just stop at the local Home Depot for all their home building needs.

But the manpower simply does not exist. Even if you had men (or in this case robots) working around the clock there was just TOO much, to be done in LESS than six months. Because remember TIM actually had to be indoctrinated before he jumped on this whole "control the reapers" thing. In ME2 he never expressed an interest in it and he actually leaned towards blowing them the **** up since the idea of controling a reaper was lunacy.

Then he gets indoctrinated after a month or so (if not longer) and THEN he'd get in contact with Henry lawson.

So at best you have five months between point A and point B.

Now take away a week or two while calls are made and they decide on a location and at best you have 4 1/2 months for construction.

Take away a week or so for the work crews to get there and start digging out the foundation and you have about 4 1/4 months left to construct a building of at least ten stories above ground an underground facility that could have been anywhere between the size of one football field  to ten football fields, along with electricity, plumbing, security systems, failsafes, habitation facilities, emergency bunkers and god knows what else the actual research facility itself needed.

Not to mention the EXTRA complication they went through to actually hide this bull****.

Unless Mr. Lawson was building a hotel there beforehand and then just revised the blue prints a bit Sanctuary is bull****.

[GreyReaver]

eddieoctane wrote...

hpjay wrote...

I'm just curious what particularly about the ending made you go WOW?  What scenes got you and why?  Often people will say how great the ending was but provide few details about what it was they actually liked.  Granted, that is a hard thing to do.  So what where the wow moments at the end and what part almost made you cry.

For me there were two "powerful" moments at the end.  One good, one bad.  The first was both pre and post EC.  It was when Shepard and Anderson were finished with the TIM and had seemed to finish the mission. It was the line "best seats in the house" uttered as the heros sunk to the floor, spent but victorious.  It was a good emotional anchor.  The heros who started the whole thing in ME1 were the ones who were seeing it finished at the end of ME3.   I liked it.  Allot.

The other was the last minute Normandy rescue of your squad mates as you ran to the beam.  I had Javik with me and it was heart wrenching to have to tell him 'NO YUO, GET OFF THE BATTLEFIELD!"  The look on his face was perfect, his plea, "But I can still fight"  a perfectly realized sentiment.  Unfortuately for me it showed the ridiculousness of the idea of the last minute pickup.  Really, I could have made it to the beam by then if we hadn't stopped for the rescue.  I wanted to see someone survive?  Well the whole squad did survive so thats kind of a weird sentiment.  Why not just have those two NOT show up on the jungle planet and the other end scenes.  That would have been easier and made more scence than the last minute rescue.

Anyway,  what were the wow moments and what almost made you cry?

Thanks

If the Crucible went off after "best seats in the house", SHepard could have died and the game would have been great. Given how dark energy was dropped as a plotline, I don't see why we couldn't drop the "intelligent" aspect of the Citadel as well. It would have been touching, bittersweet, and provided that sense of victory people want from an action game. Then suddenly we go up the down elevator realize gravit was flipped aroudn the entire time we were on the Citadel, and meet the real bad guy. It's never a good idea to introduce a new antagonist 5 minutes before the end of a movie, or in the last handful of pages in a book. Games are still narrative media, and the same narrative rules apply. Everything could have ended so well if we died sitting there with Anderson. Most people would have said it was more artistic than stealing the ending to Deus Ex as well.

Agreed. This would have been clean, simple and meaningful oh, and one helleva tear jerker.

[ld1449]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[/quote]1,2,and 6. Ceberus had been experimnting on reaper tech for years so it not something suddenly with the tech. Also, the construction in the furture is faster. So in short, yes cerberus can make it with in 6 months and make an army.

4.So? It still part of the lore added, this info is also in mars. Read th log in the room after the machine gun room on Mars. It's also there.

5. It a reaper invastion. I don't expect them to do any thing. And you think a bunch of people who work best behind a desk is going to no how to do unconventional war? That more of something a person constatly inthe feild whoud know.(Hackett, Anderson.)

[/quote]

Them researching reaper tech adds nothing or retracts from any of the points made. At best its a universal handwave like the force. "Reaper tech explains everything." "The force is guiding us.

If true about it being on mars I'll retract four.

I expect them to actually be competent. When last I looked we didn't just hand out the ranks to the highest echelons in our military. These people are admiral anderson and Hacket's bosses. They should be more than pencil pushers. They aren't because Mac Walters abandons logic in his so called "plot" events in favor of making a character seem "better" than everyone else. Sad thing is he does it by making everyone around them a ****ing retard. Case and point, Kai Leng.

[Isichar]

You know what I miss most about the original endings?

Thanks for playing! BUY MORE DLC!

Modifié par Isichar, 21 septembre 2012 - 03:59 .

[dreman9999]

@ld1449 


"Them researching reaper tech adds nothing or retracts from any of the points made. At best its a universal handwave like the force. "Reaper tech explains everything." "The force is guiding us."
 1.Yes it does. It mean they are not understanding it ou of the blue...Heck, their is a book where they truely stated to study it and that was before the 6 month Shepard was jail.

"If true about it being on mars I'll retract four. "
2.Yes, it's true. Remeber, the part of the mission that acted as atutorial for teaching the player to run for conver to cover...It's in the room after that were you fight cerberus.

 "I expect them to actually be competent. When last I looked we didn't just hand out the ranks to the highest echelons in our military. These people are admiral anderson and Hacket's bosses. They should be more than pencil pushers. They aren't because Mac Walters abandons logic in his so called "plot" events in favor of making a character seem "better" than everyone else. Sad thing is he does it by making everyone around them a ****ing retard. Case and point, Kai Leng."  

3.This is of people who never fight in the front, never lead a fleet into battle, and file paper. You really expect them to be able compreden an unconventioanl war?
You show expect nothing from them from ME2. The only people you should expect anything are the people in the front and seen war.

Modifié par dreman9999, 21 septembre 2012 - 04:09 .

[Kamfrenchie]

dreman9999 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


 "In the coup Cerberus infiltrates the citadel and damn near takes full control of it with a sizable army of people decked out in full armor, weapons, munitions, atlases ect. This is knowing that the Citadel is on relatively high alert with the war practically on everyone's doorstep, and the fact that according to Bailey in ME2 "Our scanners can lift DNA off of skin flakes"

I'm fairly sure an atlas is larger than a skin flake. "

1. This is the same system the failed to trake on failed cop who hacked the system and got by it ...Added the systemthat failed cop was takem by cerberus. Also, cerberus has many double agents in csec of years. Added, it was pointed out how bad csec security is in ME2 ANYWAY.

 "Even forgoing that its confirmed in ME2 that the Illusiveman only had FIVE cells of Cerberus Operatives. "
2.Sactuary explains the armies.

"Jacob's mission broke Jacobs Character for what few people actually romanced him with fem shep. "
3.The romance was based on physical attaction. You get what you paid for.

4. "Mars was stated to only be a small data cache in ME1 and ME2. But now in ME3 its a massive archive of Prothean information.  " 
http://masseffect.wi..._Prothean_Ruins 

01/10/2011 - Scientists on Mars Assess New Chamber in Prothean Ruins[/i]“Controversy brews tonight as scientists on Mars assess the contents of a newly opened chamber in the Prothean ruins. The opening has been a dream of exoarchaeologists for decades, delayed by the many steps necessary to replicate Prothean code keys and crack the cryptography for entry. Critics say the Milky Way Foundation, which provided supercomputers for the cryptanalysis, could hoard any Prothean discoveries. Dr. Unira T'Lam, liaison from the Citadel Committee on Paleotechnology, says she's been kept in the dark. "Foundation personnel have orchestrated a security system that keeps out everyone except a select cabal," she accuses. "Anything could be taken from inside and we'd never know." Dr. Ilsa Warren, who heads the analysis unit, dismisses the allegation. "We've made it clear all technology stays in situ throughout the cataloging and analysis process, which could take years," she says. "Dr. T'Lam's fears would be more appropriate closer to the end of the decade."”

"Fall of earth had a "Defense Comitee" that didn't know the first thing about defense. Go figure. "
5. That was the commitee the stated the reapers did not exsist if you killed off the council...Added, nothing can really stop a reaper invatsion.

. "Sanctuary had Miranda Lawson's father building a research facility for an influx of refugees that was fully operational, fully manned and capable of supporting a population of hundreds, if not thousands in less than six months. Just looking at the place I can tell you that should have taken at least a year and a half to build, if not double that time. It doesn't matter how much money you have, its the manpower and resources that go into it.  "
6.This is cerberus. Of course they can do it in 6 months. Nothing point to the fact they cant...

"
Not to mention that it was a clandestine building for the most part since no one heard of it until Kai leng showed up there.  "
7.Go to the persidium to the ads near where you meet Zaeed. It's next the the salarian and turan agueing over mods. There is an Ad for sactuarty there.
8. On prioity earth...look at my banner.

1. Like I said, Cerberus only had five cells. Moles in C-sec and information contacts is not the same as wetwork agents.

2. Sanctuary, as I said, was built in less than six months. In six months you expect me to believe that they built that place and an army? Even though sanctuary's "recruitment" could only have begin AFTER the reapers attacked and refugees had a reason to actually...you know...GO there? So what they built a time machine too? Send em back a few months into the past to help Kai Leng and his buddies fail to kill the council anyway.

3. All romances are based on phisical attraction. Its what people notice first, emotional feelings come later. It was the same with Garrus, Ashley and Liara. They showed signs of being phisically attracted to Shepard before the emotional stuff.

Or do you see a random woman walking down the road and are in love with her on an instictive intrinsic level and then say "Oh yeah she's hot btw"

4. Not in game, not even in the codex. Trust me, I've read it. They put it in like they did Emily wong's death, OUTSIDE the game, that's ****** poor story telling and afterthought base/ass covering. I'm sure half the people on this forum never even heard about it until you went to the wiki.

5. Not saying the comitee should have had the power to stop it. But goddamnit, if you're a DEFENSE comitee, you don't sit at a desk looking at eachother like bumbling idiots if arcturus was just blown to ****. You DO something. Because that's your job. Even if they said reapers didn't exist. Fine. They don't exist whoop dee freakin do. So prepare to fight Geth, Batarians, Krogans, Rachni, a pissed off council coming back to get you for letting the destiny ascencion blow up.

Instead they just sit there "Herp derp what do we do?"

"Uhhh isn't it like your job to KNOW the answer to that?"

"**** please I have people to do that for me.

6. Oh I don't know, how bout logistics? People seem to think that the more advanced construction tech gets the quicker things will go in building it when that's just bull****. Before, a building was a foundation, four walls and maybe two stories.

Now a building is a foundation, four walls, electric, plumbing, a plethora of measurments and calculations, architecture designs, support beams  columns, the works. **** gets more and more complicated as time goes on. A building of Cerberus design with all the tech they were putting into it, not to mention making it clandestine construction and out in the middle of nowhere space means that they had to bring those materials in off world most likely. That takes time, paperwork, money, them doing this whole thing in six months and then RECRUITING on top of that is like the US Mobilizing its entire military force to strike at Turkey in two hours with no prior warning whatsoever.

Never noticed the add, but still no one knows about the damn place at all. VS survivor even says it. "That's near horizon. The only cerberus presence there when I was stationed a few months ago was you guys."

Its bull****.

7. Meh, least we agree on something priority earth was boring as ****.

1,2,and 6. Ceberus had been experimnting on reaper tech for years so it not something suddenly with the tech. Also, the construction in the furture is faster. So in short, yes cerberus can make it with in 6 months and make an army.

4.So? It still part of the lore added, this info is also in mars. Read th log in the room after the machine gun room on Mars. It's also there.

5. It a reaper invastion. I don't expect them to do any thing. And you think a bunch of people who work best behind a desk is going to no how to do unconventional war? That more of something a person constatly inthe feild whoud know.(Hackett, Anderson.)

1-2-6 For years ? you mean right after sovereign defeat then ? Even then, there is pretty poor foreshadowing if that's even possible. And no, you can't just make a complex appear out of nowhere just because it's the future

Also, there are what, 200 000 C-sec officers on the citadel and each one of them is supposed to be though ? How can Cerberus have a chance in hell against that many, and take the control center ? BS.


4) it doesn't count, just like that comic about TIM and his mercenary friends, because it's never alluded to ingame
And in Mars, it mention them finding more afaik(how convenient), not something like a massive Archive that the reapers somehow missed and forgot to clean up

5) They don't know **** about conventionnal war either apparently. Like omg let's ask shepard for a plan at the last minute when we're the superior officers

[ld1449]

dreman9999 wrote...

@ld1449 


"Them researching reaper tech adds nothing or retracts from any of the points made. At best its a universal handwave like the force. "Reaper tech explains everything." "The force is guiding us."
 1.Yes it does. It mean they are not understanding it ou of the blue...Heck, their is a book where they truely stated to study it and that was before the 6 month Shepard was jail.

"If true about it being on mars I'll retract four. "
2.Yes, it's true. Remeber, the part of the mission that acted as atutorial for teaching the player to run for conver to cover...It's in the room after that were you fight cerberus.

 "I expect them to actually be competent. When last I looked we didn't just hand out the ranks to the highest echelons in our military. These people are admiral anderson and Hacket's bosses. They should be more than pencil pushers. They aren't because Mac Walters abandons logic in his so called "plot" events in favor of making a character seem "better" than everyone else. Sad thing is he does it by making everyone around them a ****ing retard. Case and point, Kai Leng."  

3.This is of people who never fight in the front, never lead a fleet into battle, and file paper. You really expect them to be able compreden an unconventioanl war?
You show expect nothing from them from ME2. The only people you should expect anything are the people in the front and seen war.

I'm not even going to argue point one because we'll be going back and forth ad nauseum as this forum has done for months. But the fact is that the so called defense comitee, in any real world scenario would be doing a lot more than them and the only reason these people are ****ing retards is because Mac Walters makes everyone stupid to raise up one character to appear "awesome" rather than raising him up on his own merits.

Like I said, Kai Leng.

Shepard doesn't shoot him when fighting thane

Shepard doesn't flip the flying car over to throw him off, or even swerve a bit

Neither Shep nor crew brings down the goddamn gunship on thessia even though him and half his crew could probably do that with their eyes closed and a hand tied behind their back while the others distract the space cosplayer.

then in the Cerberus base Shepards team is looking out at the view rather than the ONLY ****ing door into the room. All to make Kai Leng take one last shot at Shepard and to give him a second to break the sword with his fist.

Again, he makes people stupid to make other people seem legit. The Defense comitee is retarded because of his ****** poor lack of writing ability, not because they would actually BE incompetent if they attained those ranks.

[eddieoctane]

dreman9999 wrote...

 "I expect them to actually be competent. When last I looked we didn't just hand out the ranks to the highest echelons in our military. These people are admiral anderson and Hacket's bosses. They should be more than pencil pushers. They aren't because Mac Walters abandons logic in his so called "plot" events in favor of making a character seem "better" than everyone else. Sad thing is he does it by making everyone around them a ****ing retard. Case and point, Kai Leng."  

3.This is of people who never fight in the front, never lead a fleet into battle, and file paper. You really expect them to be able compreden an unconventioanl war?
You show expect nothing from them from ME2. The only people you should expect anything are the people in the front and seen war.

Well, consider that in the US Navy, to be made CO of a carrier, you need to first serves a fighter pilot, XO of a carrier, and go to nuclear propulsion school. In the end, there is nothing on a carrier the captain isn't trained and prepared to do.  But lets go further up the hierarchy. The committee in ME3 is the equivalent of the Joint Chiefs. In the modern world, the almost all have a Bronze Star. The current Chairman has the Valor device and an oak leaf cluster, meaning he was awarded it more than once. Basically, the entire top echelon of the current US military all have combat command experience. They don't get shaky and ask a single operator how to fight. They would get an expert opinion and then start orchestrating the defense of the planet. Modern militaries really are that much more competent than the way the Alliance is portrayed in ME3. Mac is a terrible writer who could only elevate Shepard by making everyone else derp themselves into oblivion. Anyone with any familiarity with actual military personnel would have and should have expected a lot more form the defense committee.

Isichar wrote...

You know what I miss most about the original endings?

Thanks for playing! BUY MORE DLC!

That never gets old.

[dreman9999]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


 "In the coup Cerberus infiltrates the citadel and damn near takes full control of it with a sizable army of people decked out in full armor, weapons, munitions, atlases ect. This is knowing that the Citadel is on relatively high alert with the war practically on everyone's doorstep, and the fact that according to Bailey in ME2 "Our scanners can lift DNA off of skin flakes"

I'm fairly sure an atlas is larger than a skin flake. "

1. This is the same system the failed to trake on failed cop who hacked the system and got by it ...Added the systemthat failed cop was takem by cerberus. Also, cerberus has many double agents in csec of years. Added, it was pointed out how bad csec security is in ME2 ANYWAY.

 "Even forgoing that its confirmed in ME2 that the Illusiveman only had FIVE cells of Cerberus Operatives. "
2.Sactuary explains the armies.

"Jacob's mission broke Jacobs Character for what few people actually romanced him with fem shep. "
3.The romance was based on physical attaction. You get what you paid for.

4. "Mars was stated to only be a small data cache in ME1 and ME2. But now in ME3 its a massive archive of Prothean information.  " 
http://masseffect.wi..._Prothean_Ruins 

01/10/2011 - Scientists on Mars Assess New Chamber in Prothean Ruins[/i]“Controversy brews tonight as scientists on Mars assess the contents of a newly opened chamber in the Prothean ruins. The opening has been a dream of exoarchaeologists for decades, delayed by the many steps necessary to replicate Prothean code keys and crack the cryptography for entry. Critics say the Milky Way Foundation, which provided supercomputers for the cryptanalysis, could hoard any Prothean discoveries. Dr. Unira T'Lam, liaison from the Citadel Committee on Paleotechnology, says she's been kept in the dark. "Foundation personnel have orchestrated a security system that keeps out everyone except a select cabal," she accuses. "Anything could be taken from inside and we'd never know." Dr. Ilsa Warren, who heads the analysis unit, dismisses the allegation. "We've made it clear all technology stays in situ throughout the cataloging and analysis process, which could take years," she says. "Dr. T'Lam's fears would be more appropriate closer to the end of the decade."”

"Fall of earth had a "Defense Comitee" that didn't know the first thing about defense. Go figure. "
5. That was the commitee the stated the reapers did not exsist if you killed off the council...Added, nothing can really stop a reaper invatsion.

. "Sanctuary had Miranda Lawson's father building a research facility for an influx of refugees that was fully operational, fully manned and capable of supporting a population of hundreds, if not thousands in less than six months. Just looking at the place I can tell you that should have taken at least a year and a half to build, if not double that time. It doesn't matter how much money you have, its the manpower and resources that go into it.  "
6.This is cerberus. Of course they can do it in 6 months. Nothing point to the fact they cant...

"
Not to mention that it was a clandestine building for the most part since no one heard of it until Kai leng showed up there.  "
7.Go to the persidium to the ads near where you meet Zaeed. It's next the the salarian and turan agueing over mods. There is an Ad for sactuarty there.
8. On prioity earth...look at my banner.

1. Like I said, Cerberus only had five cells. Moles in C-sec and information contacts is not the same as wetwork agents.

2. Sanctuary, as I said, was built in less than six months. In six months you expect me to believe that they built that place and an army? Even though sanctuary's "recruitment" could only have begin AFTER the reapers attacked and refugees had a reason to actually...you know...GO there? So what they built a time machine too? Send em back a few months into the past to help Kai Leng and his buddies fail to kill the council anyway.

3. All romances are based on phisical attraction. Its what people notice first, emotional feelings come later. It was the same with Garrus, Ashley and Liara. They showed signs of being phisically attracted to Shepard before the emotional stuff.

Or do you see a random woman walking down the road and are in love with her on an instictive intrinsic level and then say "Oh yeah she's hot btw"

4. Not in game, not even in the codex. Trust me, I've read it. They put it in like they did Emily wong's death, OUTSIDE the game, that's ****** poor story telling and afterthought base/ass covering. I'm sure half the people on this forum never even heard about it until you went to the wiki.

5. Not saying the comitee should have had the power to stop it. But goddamnit, if you're a DEFENSE comitee, you don't sit at a desk looking at eachother like bumbling idiots if arcturus was just blown to ****. You DO something. Because that's your job. Even if they said reapers didn't exist. Fine. They don't exist whoop dee freakin do. So prepare to fight Geth, Batarians, Krogans, Rachni, a pissed off council coming back to get you for letting the destiny ascencion blow up.

Instead they just sit there "Herp derp what do we do?"

"Uhhh isn't it like your job to KNOW the answer to that?"

"**** please I have people to do that for me.

6. Oh I don't know, how bout logistics? People seem to think that the more advanced construction tech gets the quicker things will go in building it when that's just bull****. Before, a building was a foundation, four walls and maybe two stories.

Now a building is a foundation, four walls, electric, plumbing, a plethora of measurments and calculations, architecture designs, support beams  columns, the works. **** gets more and more complicated as time goes on. A building of Cerberus design with all the tech they were putting into it, not to mention making it clandestine construction and out in the middle of nowhere space means that they had to bring those materials in off world most likely. That takes time, paperwork, money, them doing this whole thing in six months and then RECRUITING on top of that is like the US Mobilizing its entire military force to strike at Turkey in two hours with no prior warning whatsoever.

Never noticed the add, but still no one knows about the damn place at all. VS survivor even says it. "That's near horizon. The only cerberus presence there when I was stationed a few months ago was you guys."

Its bull****.

7. Meh, least we agree on something priority earth was boring as ****.

1,2,and 6. Ceberus had been experimnting on reaper tech for years so it not something suddenly with the tech. Also, the construction in the furture is faster. So in short, yes cerberus can make it with in 6 months and make an army.

4.So? It still part of the lore added, this info is also in mars. Read th log in the room after the machine gun room on Mars. It's also there.

5. It a reaper invastion. I don't expect them to do any thing. And you think a bunch of people who work best behind a desk is going to no how to do unconventional war? That more of something a person constatly inthe feild whoud know.(Hackett, Anderson.)

1-2-6 For years ? you mean right after sovereign defeat then ? Even then, there is pretty poor foreshadowing if that's even possible. And no, you can't just make a complex appear out of nowhere just because it's the future

Also, there are what, 200 000 C-sec officers on the citadel and each one of them is supposed to be though ? How can Cerberus have a chance in hell against that many, and take the control center ? BS.


4) it doesn't count, just like that comic about TIM and his mercenary friends, because it's never alluded to ingame
And in Mars, it mention them finding more afaik(how convenient), not something like a massive Archive that the reapers somehow missed and forgot to clean up

5) They don't know **** about conventionnal war either apparently. Like omg let's ask shepard for a plan at the last minute when we're the superior officers

1-2-6.In ME1 Their is a mssion where cerberus has been testing reaper tech on a colony to see how it works. They been doing this from before sovergin. They even have a book about it as well.

The complaex did not com out of no where. It was built. Andit was done in afast means.

4. Yes it does. It part of the lore. The comics and the books count as well. Added, the info of the new prothean archive in ME3. It in one of th elogs on MARS.

5.Reapers can't be beat with conventional war. Look at any of the races and you'll see no matter what force is put up it loses out. The problem hereis that commity only knows how to do conventional war.

[dreman9999]

eddieoctane wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

 "I expect them to actually be competent. When last I looked we didn't just hand out the ranks to the highest echelons in our military. These people are admiral anderson and Hacket's bosses. They should be more than pencil pushers. They aren't because Mac Walters abandons logic in his so called "plot" events in favor of making a character seem "better" than everyone else. Sad thing is he does it by making everyone around them a ****ing retard. Case and point, Kai Leng."  

3.This is of people who never fight in the front, never lead a fleet into battle, and file paper. You really expect them to be able compreden an unconventioanl war?
You show expect nothing from them from ME2. The only people you should expect anything are the people in the front and seen war.

Well, consider that in the US Navy, to be made CO of a carrier, you need to first serves a fighter pilot, XO of a carrier, and go to nuclear propulsion school. In the end, there is nothing on a carrier the captain isn't trained and prepared to do.  But lets go further up the hierarchy. The committee in ME3 is the equivalent of the Joint Chiefs. In the modern world, the almost all have a Bronze Star. The current Chairman has the Valor device and an oak leaf cluster, meaning he was awarded it more than once. Basically, the entire top echelon of the current US military all have combat command experience. They don't get shaky and ask a single operator how to fight. They would get an expert opinion and then start orchestrating the defense of the planet. Modern militaries really are that much more competent than the way the Alliance is portrayed in ME3. Mac is a terrible writer who could only elevate Shepard by making everyone else derp themselves into oblivion. Anyone with any familiarity with actual military personnel would have and should have expected a lot more form the defense committee.

Isichar wrote...

You know what I miss most about the original endings?

Thanks for playing! BUY MORE DLC!

That never gets old.

The problem with you point is that those people in your example face experiances the were with in their means of stratagy and tech to handle. They never had to face an unstoppable force. There has not been one battle since WW2 that acarrier was ever engaged in heavy combat. Most commanders on ships handle a support role to the units that go in for the attack.
The same can be said for the allince fleets the support earth defence. Normal a ship commander fight conventional war on there ships. They don't normal do unconventional.
Ifthe us navy suddenly had an unstoppable force attack it, ofcourse the officers would not know what to dobecause there normal tactics would not work.

[dreman9999]

ld1449 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

@ld1449 


"Them researching reaper tech adds nothing or retracts from any of the points made. At best its a universal handwave like the force. "Reaper tech explains everything." "The force is guiding us."
 1.Yes it does. It mean they are not understanding it ou of the blue...Heck, their is a book where they truely stated to study it and that was before the 6 month Shepard was jail.

"If true about it being on mars I'll retract four. "
2.Yes, it's true. Remeber, the part of the mission that acted as atutorial for teaching the player to run for conver to cover...It's in the room after that were you fight cerberus.

 "I expect them to actually be competent. When last I looked we didn't just hand out the ranks to the highest echelons in our military. These people are admiral anderson and Hacket's bosses. They should be more than pencil pushers. They aren't because Mac Walters abandons logic in his so called "plot" events in favor of making a character seem "better" than everyone else. Sad thing is he does it by making everyone around them a ****ing retard. Case and point, Kai Leng."  

3.This is of people who never fight in the front, never lead a fleet into battle, and file paper. You really expect them to be able compreden an unconventioanl war?
You show expect nothing from them from ME2. The only people you should expect anything are the people in the front and seen war.

I'm not even going to argue point one because we'll be going back and forth ad nauseum as this forum has done for months. But the fact is that the so called defense comitee, in any real world scenario would be doing a lot more than them and the only reason these people are ****ing retards is because Mac Walters makes everyone stupid to raise up one character to appear "awesome" rather than raising him up on his own merits.

Like I said, Kai Leng.

Shepard doesn't shoot him when fighting thane

Shepard doesn't flip the flying car over to throw him off, or even swerve a bit

Neither Shep nor crew brings down the goddamn gunship on thessia even though him and half his crew could probably do that with their eyes closed and a hand tied behind their back while the others distract the space cosplayer.

then in the Cerberus base Shepards team is looking out at the view rather than the ONLY ****ing door into the room. All to make Kai Leng take one last shot at Shepard and to give him a second to break the sword with his fist.

Again, he makes people stupid to make other people seem legit. The Defense comitee is retarded because of his ****** poor lack of writing ability, not because they would actually BE incompetent if they attained those ranks.

That has nothing to do wih the commitee. Those are nick picks.

The gunship in ME2 took a long time to take down, so no one can ever easily take one out. 

Also, with the car have you every seen one flip while driving?

On point, the issue with the commitee is that they never faced anything like a reaper invation before. Commanders have a stable base of stratagy they use on hand based on past experiances. If they don't work then of course the commader does not know what to do.
They are used tohaving a force around earth that can stop anything that attacks. Every tacticthey haveisbased on the forces near earth stopping anything that attacks. You think they suddenly know what to do when somwthing starts easily cutting it way through?

[Kamfrenchie]

dreman9999 wrote...

1-2-6.In ME1 Their is a mssion where cerberus has been testing reaper tech on a colony to see how it works. They been doing this from before sovergin. They even have a book about it as well.

The complaex did not com out of no where. It was built. Andit was done in afast means.

4. Yes it does. It part of the lore. The comics and the books count as well. Added, the info of the new prothean archive in ME3. It in one of th elogs on MARS.

5.Reapers can't be beat with conventional war. Look at any of the races and you'll see no matter what force is put up it loses out. The problem hereis that commity only knows how to do conventional war.

1-2-6 and so they can replicate reaper tech uber fast, install high tech experimental machinery on a planet in less than 6 months ? bs like it's been said earlier, building stuff takes time. Even in the future it will. remember the building of nassana dantius ? it wasn't built in a week. And in 2 years the alliance fleet didn't recover from their losses. So don't tell me they can build so fast

4) No it doesn't. The story shouldn't need outside material to make sense, especially if those are never alluded to by the game. That's also why twitter canon is bs. the game is called ME3, it shouldn't need anything else than ME1 and 2  to expose the plot and lore.

Still, the fact they opened the new cache at the right moment, while it was never mentionned beforein game, is bad writing/foreshadowing.


5) they are vulnerable to conventionnal weaponry if there is enough (thanix, javelin, laser). And they probably already had shep's report. They shouldn't be calling him at the last second and asking him for a plan. If anything they should call hackett or joker etc because they fought sovereign.

They should have had a plan, no matter what. Ask shepard if he has any suggestions ? sure. Quake in their boot and cry at shepard because he had no plans while he has been warning them ?

Stupid bad writing.

Also consider the fact the fleets didn't even recover from the battle of the citadel if you save the Ascension... incompetent military

Modifié par Kamfrenchie, 21 septembre 2012 - 05:57 .

[Kamfrenchie]

starlitegirlx wrote...

Regarding shepard and kai leng, there was some sort of bridge or walkway that they flew under and it's so close to knocking him off, I was astonished she didn't use it. I was actually like WTH? All she had to do was aim a little higher.

As for citadel being on high alert, there's a great scene early on where edi and joker are in the courtyard of the presidium and you talk to joker who is on a bench and he's making sarcastic comments about how everyone is ignoring the unshackled AI (homage to ME1 is what I felt) and how the big things going on at the citadel were a movie and some other thing. Then for shepard's response I take the bottom where she says that she having the citidel out where it is away from reality (no reapers nearby so everyone may know of the invasions but not even consider it an issue for them because they are safe where they are hahaha) is a bad idea. That to me shows that there really was no high alert. There was actually NO ALERT. It was just la de da citadel stuff. But that may have to do with reapers building it and it had a calming affect probably because it was ALWAYS the first front of all war attacks. However, due to the ending of ME2 "humans now have the attention" harbinger says as they are running before the base blows up, I think the reapers decided to go for Earth first and Palaven given that garrus was involved in ME1 and ME2. I think it made sense in the storyline. Garrus is dominant in both ME1 and ME2 and Reapers know the races one would assume if they know Shepard is human. So they went for Turians and Humans with some others first.

Not meaning to argue. These are just things I noticed and made note of that can explain some of what happened.

What was the timeline between shepard blowing up the base and the reaper arrival. I thought it was a few years at first. Then I thought months based on something someone wrote somewhere on BW. We know that Illusive man had reaper tech from right after the blow up. We know he sent people there to scavenge the same way they got shepard after normandy got hit by the collectors. So whatever that time frame is, that is how long Illusive man had the tech to get building his sanctuary and benning abductions start around turchunka which is the very beginning of the game. So I think that they began the abductions to get more test subjects for sanctuary or perhaps other facilities but we don't find out till later and I have no idea how long the timeline is within the game is. Weeks? Months? One month? I can't gauge it at all.

As for the story, it had wonderful emotional moments and was actually the best of the three in that regard. The whole cerberus part was pure lunacy though. I seriously think the writers were on hallucinogens when they wrote that stuff. Everything that includes cerberus borders on comical to me and really pulled me out of the game. In fact, most of it made no sense except going after people like the scientists or the abductions or the school. Maybe the bomb on turchunka but all that would do was derail negotiations and start another war which I still cannot make sense of the logic behind it. I don't remember all the cerberus missions, but some made no sense. Was Illusive man afraid shepard would save the galaxy before he could control the reapers? Storywise, I still don't understand most of how those missions fit in and even within the story, they are never answered and nobody understands why yet sanctuary is supposed to explain all of it, but it didn't.

also makes you wonder why after trying hard to convince you to save the base, he just uses the human reaper as a power source despite the obvious indoctrination risk, and the fact it's just a waste.

He wants to control reapers ? can't he try to reactivate the baby to try his control before he  attempt to control them all ?
And why control them all ?
1 would be more than enough to get their tech, and let's say with 3 he'd have a powerful navy.

Heck if he wants to rule the galaxy, he could just build up his forces, preserve them and wait till the end of ME3 when everyone is weakened to turn traitor.

Also, when did the reaper invasion of Batarian territory start ? right after Arrival ?

[dreman9999]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1-2-6.In ME1 Their is a mssion where cerberus has been testing reaper tech on a colony to see how it works. They been doing this from before sovergin. They even have a book about it as well.

The complaex did not com out of no where. It was built. Andit was done in afast means.

4. Yes it does. It part of the lore. The comics and the books count as well. Added, the info of the new prothean archive in ME3. It in one of th elogs on MARS.

5.Reapers can't be beat with conventional war. Look at any of the races and you'll see no matter what force is put up it loses out. The problem hereis that commity only knows how to do conventional war.

1-2-6 and so they can replicate reaper tech uber fast, install high tech experimental machinery on a planet in less than 6 months ? bs

4) No it doesn't. The story shouldn't need outside material to make sense, especially if those are never alluded to by the game. That's also why twitter canon is bs. the game is called ME3, it shouldn't need anything else than ME1 and 2  to expose the plot and lore.

Still, the fact they opened the new cache at the right moment, while it was never mentionned beforein game, is bad writing/foreshadowing.


5) they are vulnerable to conventionnal weaponry if there is enough (thanix, javelin, laser). And they probably already had shep's report. They shouldn't be calling him at the last second and asking him for a plan. If anything they should call hackett or joker etc because they fought sovereign.

They should have had a plan, no matter what. Ask shepard if he has any suggestions ? sure. Quake in their boot and cry at shepard because he had no plans while he has been warning them ?

Stupid bad writing.

Also consider the fact the fleets didn't even recover from the battle of the citadel if you save the Ascension... incompetent military

1-2-6  . Reaper tech is self replicating. It's nano machines. Added the collected the tech form the geth and proto reaper.

4.Yes, it does. All the me books and comic are not only stated in the story but reflectedin the lore. Hell, Sanders, Anderson, and Kai lang are book characters.

5.Reaper a vonverable to convention weapon if the weapon is close enough. The problem is to get close to a reaper is a suicide mission. That is in the codex.
That's why no force can stop them. The reaper has stronger diistance fire, mind range fire and close range fire and strong defences. By the time a ship using convention tactics get close to a reaper it's well blown up.

Modifié par dreman9999, 21 septembre 2012 - 06:01 .

[ld1449]

starlitegirlx wrote...

Regarding shepard and kai leng, there was some sort of bridge or walkway that they flew under and it's so close to knocking him off, I was astonished she didn't use it. I was actually like WTH? All she had to do was aim a little higher.

As for citadel being on high alert, there's a great scene early on where edi and joker are in the courtyard of the presidium and you talk to joker who is on a bench and he's making sarcastic comments about how everyone is ignoring the unshackled AI (homage to ME1 is what I felt) and how the big things going on at the citadel were a movie and some other thing. Then for shepard's response I take the bottom where she says that she having the citidel out where it is away from reality (no reapers nearby so everyone may know of the invasions but not even consider it an issue for them because they are safe where they are hahaha) is a bad idea. That to me shows that there really was no high alert. There was actually NO ALERT. It was just la de da citadel stuff. But that may have to do with reapers building it and it had a calming affect probably because it was ALWAYS the first front of all war attacks. However, due to the ending of ME2 "humans now have the attention" harbinger says as they are running before the base blows up, I think the reapers decided to go for Earth first and Palaven given that garrus was involved in ME1 and ME2. I think it made sense in the storyline. Garrus is dominant in both ME1 and ME2 and Reapers know the races one would assume if they know Shepard is human. So they went for Turians and Humans with some others first.

Not meaning to argue. These are just things I noticed and made note of that can explain some of what happened.

What was the timeline between shepard blowing up the base and the reaper arrival. I thought it was a few years at first. Then I thought months based on something someone wrote somewhere on BW. We know that Illusive man had reaper tech from right after the blow up. We know he sent people there to scavenge the same way they got shepard after normandy got hit by the collectors. So whatever that time frame is, that is how long Illusive man had the tech to get building his sanctuary and benning abductions start around turchunka which is the very beginning of the game. So I think that they began the abductions to get more test subjects for sanctuary or perhaps other facilities but we don't find out till later and I have no idea how long the timeline is within the game is. Weeks? Months? One month? I can't gauge it at all.

As for the story, it had wonderful emotional moments and was actually the best of the three in that regard. The whole cerberus part was pure lunacy though. I seriously think the writers were on hallucinogens when they wrote that stuff. Everything that includes cerberus borders on comical to me and really pulled me out of the game. In fact, most of it made no sense except going after people like the scientists or the abductions or the school. Maybe the bomb on turchunka but all that would do was derail negotiations and start another war which I still cannot make sense of the logic behind it. I don't remember all the cerberus missions, but some made no sense. Was Illusive man afraid shepard would save the galaxy before he could control the reapers? Storywise, I still don't understand most of how those missions fit in and even within the story, they are never answered and nobody understands why yet sanctuary is supposed to explain all of it, but it didn't.

Yes, CIVILIANS are all fine and dandy going along like its no ones buisness but everyone in the military knows that for civilians, unless the bomb's been dropped on their house the war is hundreds of miles away for them. Did America suddenly go on lockdown when we went to war after sept 11th? No. There was a hub ub for about a year, at most then civilians went on buisness as usual even though the war was still very much waging. Homeland security, the equivalent of the Citadel's C-sec however, was very much with their eyes peeled and their ears to the ground.

It was six months between Arrival and ME3 how many months it was between arival and the Collector base I can't say for sure.

I believe I heard somewhere that the game timeline is between 1 to 2 months.


@ dreman, they're not nitpicks, they're examples of logical fallacies. Like the comitee's incompetence. You argue that there are no such things in ME3, I'm pointing out the most glaringly obvious (all in Mac Walters writing pieces I might add)

The point isn't that they're fighting reapers and can't feasibly do anything to stop them. We know there's nothing they can do to stop them but they're not even laying out a battle plan to fight. They're just sitting there and running around like chikens with their heads cut off. Its ass backwards retarded for a group of people that are the equivalent as someone mentioned to the joint chiefs of staff, all of which have seen combat.

And yes. They should have a battle plan. Its their ****ing job.

If my job is to make sure no nuke hits the US, then I need to do my job.

Failing that if a nuke does get launched, I need to know it got launched.

I need to be able to make a call to get the president to safety,

I need to make a call to launch a counterstrike on the offending nation.

I need to know the best way to find out where that son of a **** is hitting so I can try to evacuate people.

I need to know the political ramifications and economic impact this act will have.

I need to know how the hell this happened, why it happened, who made it happen and what can be done after the dust settles.

And all of this ****, needs to be known and laid out infront of the president by the time that bomb hits.

That is the full extent of my job. Not just saying "Herp derp, I stop nukes."

I'm not just gonna sit infront of my screen, watching the nuke after it launches and say "Whelp, I did all I could."

Do you think ANY military commander walks in with just ONE plan? Haven't you ever heard of the fact that no plan survives first contact?

Do you think they're just gonna put up patrols and a fence and if someone gets passed that to attack the base camp they're just gonna throw their arms up in the air. "Well damnit they got the flag guess we loose."

Thank god you're not in charge of national security.

Modifié par ld1449, 21 septembre 2012 - 06:05 .

[dreman9999]

@ld1449 


How do you not understand that you looking at a commitee that is used and statagies based on a conventional means of battle. They aret their thinking is of  being big fish and using big fish tactics. They are used to using force to stop force with an invation with smaller units attack and braking apart the attack force. They are used to and make all ther tactic based on having a wall of  ships stopping advancement of any invation.

If a force comes in and cut through those forces they have like nothing, you think any commander would know what to do to counter it. No planning whould stop the reaper. None. They paniced because they had no tatic to stop the reapers  like the rest of the races.

If you have a set of tactic on had younormaly used and your opponet cut through all of them you not suppenly going to know what to do next.
What plan can they do to counter the reapers?

Modifié par dreman9999, 21 septembre 2012 - 06:12 .

[ld1449]

And yes, I remember how long it took to bring down the gunship but if you'll recall, I did bring it down. There is no reason my two squadmates can't fight Kai Leng while Shepard deals with that.

Furthermore lets look at the teammates themselves.

Garrus, disabled the gunship in ME2 with one shot before we got there.

Liara, extremely powerful Biotic that can rip an engine wing off or block the bullets/missiles with a barrier.

Javik, also a very powerful Biotic with a particle beam that could probably melt through that hull.

Tali and Edi should both be able to hack that thing in their sleep,

The only two teammates who can't bring it down or distract it is Vega and Ashley and again, no reason they can't fight the Naruto cosplayer while I deal with the ship.

[eddieoctane]

dreman9999 wrote...
The problem with you point is that those people in your example face experiances the were with in their means of stratagy and tech to handle. They never had to face an unstoppable force. There has not been one battle since WW2 that acarrier was ever engaged in heavy combat. Most commanders on ships handle a support role to the units that go in for the attack.
The same can be said for the allince fleets the support earth defence. Normal a ship commander fight conventional war on there ships. They don't normal do unconventional.
Ifthe us navy suddenly had an unstoppable force attack it, ofcourse the officers would not know what to dobecause there normal tactics would not work.

My point was that practical and relevant combat experience is required for command. You missed that. Or you chose to ignore it deliberately. Either way, the poitn still stands that admirals and generals aren't paper pushers. They know how to keep a level head. The ones in ME3 all but broke down and cried like little girls. And this was only done to elevate Shepard, because Mac can't write more than one character in a room to have any competency whatsoever.

During the First Contact War, humanity was hopelessly outmatched by the Turians. It was the intervention of the Council that prevented humanity from being massacred. So humans in the ME-era have at least some experience in dealing with an overwhelming force. It stands to reason that some of the officers from that conflict would still be around (Dr. Chakwas, for example), who could provide some insight on what to do more than "We fight or we die". Bad writing is bad.

I have come to the conclusion, however, that if the statements about actual Tier One operators acting in an advisory role in the production of Medal of Honor hold true, then EA could have provided some actual military advisers to the development team of ME2 and 3. BioWare did not want this, and we got derps everywhere as a result. Instead of having any measure of logic in things like rank structure, tactics, or operations, Mac and Casey art'ed their way through, and the consumers were disappointed.

[dreman9999]

ld1449 wrote...

And yes, I remember how long it took to bring down the gunship but if you'll recall, I did bring it down. There is no reason my two squadmates can't fight Kai Leng while Shepard deals with that.

Furthermore lets look at the teammates themselves.

Garrus, disabled the gunship in ME2 with one shot before we got there.

Liara, extremely powerful Biotic that can rip an engine wing off or block the bullets/missiles with a barrier.

Javik, also a very powerful Biotic with a particle beam that could probably melt through that hull.

Tali and Edi should both be able to hack that thing in their sleep,

The only two teammates who can't bring it down or distract it is Vega and Ashley and again, no reason they can't fight the Naruto cosplayer while I deal with the ship.

Kia lang is a person which has a super strong sheild and clockes him self. He is not going to be destarcted fro what Shepard is doing added , he did not allow the gun ship to be in view tobe shot at when he was attacking.

"Garrus, disabled the gunship in ME2 with one shot before we got there."
Cerberus knows that, you don't think they would have a counter for that?

"Liara, extremely powerful Biotic that can rip an engine wing off or block the bullets/missiles with a barrier. "
No she can't. When has she ever done this?

"Javik, also a very powerful Biotic with a particle beam that could probably melt through that hull. "
No it can't. The gun can't even on shot an Atlus.

"Tali and Edi should both be able to hack that thing in their sleep,  "
Cerbeus knows this you don't think they won't have a counter?

[Ruined the Franchise]

munkyboy04 wrote...

Just another question then, is there a right/correct ending to mass effect?

Depends how you define "right", right for the galaxy? If you were picking an ending based on "right" for the galaxy you picked the wrong ending.

[ld1449]

dreman9999 wrote...

@ld1449 


How do you not understand that you looking at a commitee that is used and statagies based on a conventional means of battle. They aret their thinking is of  being big fish and using big fish tactics. They are used to using force to stop force with an invation with smaller units attack and braking apart the attack force. They are used to and make all ther tactic based on having a wall of  ships stopping advancement of any invation.

If a force comes in and cut through those forces they have like nothing, you think any commander would know what to do to counter it. No planning whould stop the reaper. None. They paniced because they had no tatic to stop the reapers  like the rest of the races.

If you have a set of tactic on had younormaly used and your opponet cut through all of them you not suppenly going to know what to do next.
What plan can they do to counter the reapers?

....yeah...

That's not tactics buddy that's brute force stupidity...

Like I said. I'm not expecting them to stop the reapers. They could make an effort though. I could see them looking over reports scrambling to gather up whatever ground assets they have, nuclear missle silos, ground to orbit weaponry organising civilian evacuation, logistics on food, resources, gathering the intelligence on enemy numbers, weaponry capabilities calling in any fleet available that was not stationed at arcturus.

When will you understand that the portrayal they're given is simply idiotic. No military commander just sits there and flounders when the plan goes to hell. Plans go to hell all the time, that's why they're commanders because they come up with new plans.

Did the Turians panic? **** no. Turians lost bad, then they pulled a Han Solo in "never tell me the odds" pulled a bull**** FTL jump to literally land right in the middle of the reaper formation, blew up three of their soverign classes and jumped back out. THAT is tactics and TURIANS are the ones that use overwhelming force since, pound for pound they have the largest, most powerful fleet in the galaxy.

Did the Asari Panic? No. They kept using hit and run tactics, bringing down one to two reaper vessels before jumping away again, their campaign was successful until the reapers reached thessia. Then they tried to dig in their heels.

THOSE are tactics. All from people which, by your logic should have panicked even more than the humans considering they both had bigger fleets.

Modifié par ld1449, 21 septembre 2012 - 06:22 .