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[ShadowLordXII]

Let's be honest, Hawke was railroaded during the ending of DAII.  Sure, Anders' actions had "removed the chance for compromise and Meredith was determined to stain her sword with someone's blood.

But did that mean Hawke had to choose sides?

By this point, Hawke has seen the best and worst of templars and mages.  While it's not impossible for him to pick a side, a better action would be to put his foot down.

Namely invoke his status as Champion to shut up both parties.

By now, Hawke and his companions have fought/defeated/killed the following: Tal-Vashoth platoons; Multiple Qunari war parties that sometimes had saarabas; dens filled with young, juvenile and mature dragons; blood mages; templars; abominations, sometimes in large groups; demons of every kind, including higher tiered demons; lots and lots of darkspawn including ogres, hurlocks, emissaries, genlocks and one of the magisters who started the Blight in the first place without contracting the taint; lyrium rock wraiths (even punched one in the face); various bandits and carta ninjas who appeared out of nowhere; highly trained and capable grey wardens potentially including a former commander and a senior warden; corrupt city guardsmen; at least one tevinter magister; and potentially killed the Arishok in single combat.

So why should he have any reason to be intimidated by Meredith or Orsino?  I'm not saying that Meredith is weak or that Orsino is incapable, but compared to what Hawke has faced in the past 7 years, he should have enough mental fortitude to be able to call both parties out on their faults.

Also, remember that Hawke is one of the leading figures of the city at this point in the game, he rose from rags to riches, redeemed the Amell Name, traveled through the deep roads for at least a week and has saved the city from a qunari invasion.  By now, he's practically at the top of the nobility food chain.  As a mage, Hawke is untouched by Meredith because of his reputation.

So why not have Hawke put his foot down and demand Meredith to redraw the Right of Anullment.  Assuming that Aveline is completely "loyal" to Hawke, have her call in the City Guard to enforce his decision along with his other companions.  Rather you support mages or templars, Meredith is overstepping her boundries by declaring the Right of Anullment on the Circle for something that they didn't even do.  While the mages themselves haven't exactly done much to ebb away Meredith's suspicions, nothing about Meredith's action was justified or even made sense.

It's like having every person with a blue shirt massacred because a guy with a blue shirt blew up a church.  It's wrong and it's stupid.

This will force Meredith into a corner...by putting his foot down and using his influence to call for a "citizen's arrest", he's directly challenging the two of them to make his day.  Meredith will be forced into a dilemna rather she takes the Champion seriously or not.  If she recalls the right of anullment, people will see that as a sign that templar influence in Kirkwall is waning, but she'll salvage the order's reputation by appearing to be swayed by reason.  Due to the red lyrium though...she's more likely to declare the Champion a threat and just attack him...this will put off sane members within the Templars who'll decide that Meredith is going too far and either cause them to stand aside or side with Hawke to quell the fighting like Cullen did during the Final Battle.

The common people will also rise up against the templars because their hero is being attacked, for no other reason that that he's doing exactly what he was appointed to do.  Protect the city, even from itself.

This would also make Hawke seem more proactive as a protagonist.  Instead of letting a hypocrite or paranoid addict string him along through the ending, Hawke should be able to say no to both or at least stand on more even grounds with the side that he does pick.  For instance, kill Meredith if he goes templar and command the templars to stand down or persuade Orsino and the mages to flee while he and his companions HOLD THE LINE in a last stand against Meredith's templars.

Just something that came up in my mind, thoughts?

[The Night Haunter]

Except that the 'Common People" will have no idea what is going on. Remember no cell phones. Sure Hawke might rally a group of people nearby, but lets face it common people are common people. They are not trained fighters or equiped to fight (sticks and wool shirts arent that great against steel armor and swords) and would most likely remain uninvolved.

Also you are overestimating how much people Love Hawke and underestimating religious fervor. The Chantry was blown up and Meredith is the sole surviving face of the Chantry, so not many people would fight her or the Templars.

As for Meredith she is crazy as we see later with the idol turned sword, she wouldnt back down, she'd attack Hawke, thus effectively forcing him to side with Orsino and we end up where we already were.

Besides everything else in order for Kirkwall to have an effect on the world at large the Circle must be annulled (it is annulled even if you save it lol, only difference is a handful of mages live through the experience), so the game couldn't really end any other way. This is just bad decision making on Biowares part, since any incomplete story is going to be limited in what can happen. Whereas with DAO it was a full and complete story so we had tons of 'what happens afterwords' options, but in DA2 it is just a prelude to events that occur later (DA:Asunder and DA3) so it isnt a complete story and thus we can't have all our options. Hopefully this is fixed in DA3.

[Shadow Fox]

Hawke should have left the city in Act 1.

[Pallandiell]

Kinda sad Hawke had to leave (iny my case he sticks with Meridill) Would have been a nice ruling couple in Kirkwall.

I agree though, I would also have wanted the "third choice" of neutrality (or basically FOR Kirkwall and against both of the idiots) You do everything to save the city and become important in it and then have to leave because some wacko blows up a church and mages and templars start killing each other. Its clear we will not play him in DA3 but I would enjoy seeing him in a respectable position somewhere, not having to be on the run. Will be fun to see how the grey warden and Hawke will appear in DA 3.

[HiroVoid]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Hawke should have left the city in Act 1.

Hawke should have left the city in the prologue.

[thats1evildude]

There is no way to make Meredith revoke the Right of Annulment. Hawke's status as the Champion grants him considerable influence, but he is still only second in power to Meredith. Hawke's opposition doesn't even give Meredith's pause; that should tell you how successful Hawke would be in trying to convince Meredith to revoke the Right.

Even if the city guard supported the mages and were not busy trying to keep order during the battle, their involvement would do more harm than good. The templars vastly outnumber the guard; if they were slaughtered, there would be no one to police the city.

Hawke cannot take the middle path. Staying out of the conflict  would only result in greater carnage.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 22 septembre 2012 - 10:19 .

[Darkin30]

Hawke should never have left Ferelden in the first place, damn coward.

Modifié par Darkin30, 22 septembre 2012 - 10:53 .

[thats1evildude]

Darkin30 wrote...

Hawke should never have left Ferelden in the first place, damn coward.

The alternative was being killed by the darkspawn.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Hawke should have used his position to show people that mages can be good upstanding citizens and fight to free the mages of the Circle.

[ShadowLordXII]

thats1evildude wrote...

There is no way to make Meredith revoke the Right of Annulment. Hawke's status as the Champion grants him considerable influence, but he is still only second in power to Meredith. Hawke's opposition doesn't even give Meredith's pause; that should tell you how successful Hawke would be in trying to convince Meredith to revoke the Right.

Even if the city guard supported the mages and were not busy trying to keep order during the battle, their involvement would do more harm than good. The templars vastly outnumber the guard; if they were slaughtered, there would be no one to police the city.

Hawke cannot take the middle path. Staying out of the conflict  would only result in greater carnage.

Rather or not this option is the best one is open, I won't pretend that Hawke's chances would be great with potentially both mages and templars on his heels.  And I do doubt that with her mental state, Meredith would've backed down.

I just think that Hawke should've had the option to try.  Why should Hawke be forced to make any choice between these two groups?  Sibling aside since you can send them to the wardens; let em die in the deeps; or ignore them here; these two groups have nothing on Hawke.  Hawke's influence equals theirs; his combat prowess basically overshadows theirs considering everything that he's already fought at this point; and he also has the High Ground....

Morally and Ethically...

People inherently distrust mages and Orsino isn't helping by harbouring and aiding blood mages and demon summoners; People trust the Chantry, but Kirkwall really doesn't like Meredith or how the city is basically ran by the templars...templars who tranqualize mages even if they've passed their Harrowing.  In this situation, the Chantry's gone and Meredith is taking control and branding the Circle scapegoats for something that an unaffiliated mage committed.

Whether Hawke succeeds is an entirely different discussion though I'd say the odds are even, but why should Hawke back down to Meredith?  Is Meredith a 30 meter long High Dragon that can eat his face?  Or a Magister Lord who brought the Blight into the World? Or a tall Horned Giant who duel wields large hammers?