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[IanPolaris]

From Mirriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/deity

Definition of DEITY


1

a: the rank or essential nature of a god : divinity

bcapitalized: god 1, supreme being

2

: a god or goddess <the deities of ancient Greece>


3

: one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful


Of the above definitions, 1a is circular, 1b applies to the Judeo-Christian God and is not applicable, 2 applies to Ancient Greece and is not applicable, which leaves the third definition which is what I said it was. If you don't exalt or revere any being (no matter how powerful) then you don't believe in any god or gods and thus you are an atheist.

-Polaris

[Emzamination]

*chews gum* This is getting good.

[Gabey5]

Atheists have always existed, they could not scream their lack of belief from the rooftops though

[IanPolaris]

Even using the normal definition, that isn't so (other than DG as writer always gets the final say as to what's canonical and isn't). Otherwise all High Dragons would be considered 'gods' because Dragon Cults exist...but I don't think most people in Thedas would agree with that. In the DA universe, there is a deliberate design decision (which I agree with btw) to leave the actual existance of the maker open to question. That means that atheism should be at least intellectually possible IMHO.

-Polaris

[Shadow Fox]

Emzamination wrote...

*chews gum* This is getting good.

Want some soda and popcorn?

[Vandicus]

IanPolaris wrote...

From Mirriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/deity

Definition of DEITY


1

a: the rank or essential nature of a god : divinity

bcapitalized: god 1, supreme being

2

: a god or goddess <the deities of ancient Greece>


3

: one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful


Of the above definitions, 1a is circular, 1b applies to the Judeo-Christian God and is not applicable, 2 applies to Ancient Greece and is not applicable, which leaves the third definition which is what I said it was. If you don't exalt or revere any being (no matter how powerful) then you don't believe in any god or gods and thus you are an atheist.

-Polaris

Interesting definiton. So what are you telling people they should call evil deities in Forgotten Realms?

*EDIT

For that matter, the Greek deities don't qualify for your definition. No Greek deity is exalted or revered as supremely good or supremely powerful.

Modifié par Vandicus, 21 septembre 2012 - 11:37 .

[Emzamination]

IanPolaris wrote...

Even using the normal definition, that isn't so (other than DG as writer always gets the final say as to what's canonical and isn't). Otherwise all High Dragons would be considered 'gods' because Dragon Cults exist...but I don't think most people in Thedas would agree with that. In the DA universe, there is a deliberate design decision (which I agree with btw) to leave the actual existance of the maker open to question. That means that atheism should be at least intellectually possible IMHO.

-Polaris

So what's that god to do with the 7 high dragons that are? The immortal ones with powers other than fire breathing I mean.

[Ryzaki]

You mean the immortal ones that the GWs kill (or are capable of killing) down to destroying their very soul?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 septembre 2012 - 11:37 .

[Emzamination]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

*chews gum* This is getting good.

Want some soda and popcorn?

Popcorn!!

[Emzamination]

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean the immortal ones that the GWs kill?

Yes the immortal one that only the grey warden can kill, that's the one.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Gabey5 wrote...

Atheists have always existed, they could not scream their lack of belief from the rooftops though

Lol i saw a preacher near a train station a few months ago...

[IanPolaris]

Vandicus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

From Mirriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/deity

Definition of DEITY


1

a: the rank or essential nature of a god : divinity

bcapitalized: god 1, supreme being

2

: a god or goddess <the deities of ancient Greece>


3

: one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful


Of the above definitions, 1a is circular, 1b applies to the Judeo-Christian God and is not applicable, 2 applies to Ancient Greece and is not applicable, which leaves the third definition which is what I said it was. If you don't exalt or revere any being (no matter how powerful) then you don't believe in any god or gods and thus you are an atheist.

-Polaris

Interesting definiton. So what are you telling people they should call evil deities in Forgotten Realms?

*EDIT

For that matter, the Greek deities don't qualify for your definition. No Greek deity is exalted or revered as supremely good or supremely powerful.

The definition clearly distinguises between God and god.  Read it again..and the greek dieties were certainly exalted and revered by their followers, i.e. worshipped.

A person that doesn't think ANY being deserves to be so exalted or revered (ie worshipped) is an atheist.  Simple as that.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  Evil dieties are worshipped in both forgotten worlds and in the real one...often as a form of maltheism (I worship you so you can stay away!)

Modifié par IanPolaris, 21 septembre 2012 - 11:40 .

[Ryzaki]

Emzamination wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean the immortal ones that the GWs kill?

Yes the immortal one that only the grey warden can kill, that's the one.

*I edited* 

GWs are human creations. No offense but I wouldn't worship anything killable by man. It feels ridculous frankly. I don't think of something killable when I hear the word god. That's just me though.

And archie can be "defeated" by normal men. But only for a time (long enough to regenerate in another form as the first Blight can attest to). Powerful? Yeah supremely powerful? Not so much. If he was he wouldn't be able to be "killed".

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 septembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[IanPolaris]

I add that the Elves of old Arlathan were (reputed) to be immortal but they certainly weren't gods.

-Polaris

[Vandicus]

IanPolaris wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

From Mirriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/deity

Definition of DEITY


1

a: the rank or essential nature of a god : divinity

bcapitalized: god 1, supreme being

2

: a god or goddess <the deities of ancient Greece>


3

: one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful


Of the above definitions, 1a is circular, 1b applies to the Judeo-Christian God and is not applicable, 2 applies to Ancient Greece and is not applicable, which leaves the third definition which is what I said it was. If you don't exalt or revere any being (no matter how powerful) then you don't believe in any god or gods and thus you are an atheist.

-Polaris

Interesting definiton. So what are you telling people they should call evil deities in Forgotten Realms?

*EDIT

For that matter, the Greek deities don't qualify for your definition. No Greek deity is exalted or revered as supremely good or supremely powerful.

The definition clearly distinguises between God and god.  Read it again..and the greek dieties were certainly exalted and revered by their followers, i.e. worshipped.

A person that doesn't think ANY being deserves to be so exalted or revered (ie worshipped) is an atheist.  Simple as that.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  Evil dieties are worshipped in both forgotten worlds and in the real one...often as a form of maltheism (I worship you so you can stay away!)

So you read the third definition as one exalted, or revered as supremely good or powerful? They don't need to view it as supremely good or powerful, they just need to view them as exalted?

Also acknowledging the existence of evil gods in forgotten realms isn't maltheism, they actively try to fight them. Its hard to fight a god if you don't acknowledge they're one.

[Emzamination]

Ryzaki wrote...

*I edited* 

GWs are human creations. No offense but I wouldn't worship anything killable by man. It feels ridculous frankly.

And archie can be "defeated" by normal men. But only for a time (long enough to regenerate in another form).

Me either but try telling that to the imperium and you'll get burned like Andraste.

Yes the snake is all but...durable?

[Ryzaki]

Emzamination wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

*I edited* 

GWs are human creations. No offense but I wouldn't worship anything killable by man. It feels ridculous frankly.

And archie can be "defeated" by normal men. But only for a time (long enough to regenerate in another form).

Me either but try telling that to the imperium and you'll get burned like Andraste.

Yes the snake is all but...durable?

Oh sure I'd be burned and they are quite suspectible to a blade to the neck or someone burning them to death as well. There are plenty of humans that can kill me in the blink of an eye. I'm not going to worship them. They can be killed as well.

Nah he plays grand theft me with the nearest poor darkspawn.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 septembre 2012 - 11:47 .

[Shadow Fox]

Ryzaki wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean the immortal ones that the GWs kill?

Yes the immortal one that only the grey warden can kill, that's the one.

*I edited* 

GWs are human creations. No offense but I wouldn't worship anything killable by man. It feels ridculous frankly. I don't think of something killable when I hear the word god. That's just me though.

And archie can be "defeated" by normal men. But only for a time (long enough to regenerate in another form as the first Blight can attest to). Powerful? Yeah supremely powerful? Not so much. If he was he wouldn't be able to be "killed".

Hey that thing was a **** to kill.

[Emzamination]

Ryzaki wrote...


Oh sure I'd be burned and they are quite suspectible to a blade to the neck or someone burning them to death as well. There are plenty of humans that can kill me in the blink of an eye. I'm not going to worship them. They can be killed as well.

Nah he plays grand theft me with the nearest poor darkspawn.

Unless their last name is krueger, then I'd suggest you sleep with one eye open...or rather not sleep at all for that matter

Losing the wings, size, wings, power and did I mention wings? He must of felt like Aerie, she didn't want to live in a world without wings either.

Modifié par Emzamination, 21 septembre 2012 - 11:52 .

[Heimdall]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean the immortal ones that the GWs kill?

Yes the immortal one that only the grey warden can kill, that's the one.

*I edited* 

GWs are human creations. No offense but I wouldn't worship anything killable by man. It feels ridculous frankly. I don't think of something killable when I hear the word god. That's just me though.

And archie can be "defeated" by normal men. But only for a time (long enough to regenerate in another form as the first Blight can attest to). Powerful? Yeah supremely powerful? Not so much. If he was he wouldn't be able to be "killed".

Hey that thing was a **** to kill.

Well, to be fair, that was a corrupted old god 

[Vandicus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean the immortal ones that the GWs kill?

Yes the immortal one that only the grey warden can kill, that's the one.

*I edited* 

GWs are human creations. No offense but I wouldn't worship anything killable by man. It feels ridculous frankly. I don't think of something killable when I hear the word god. That's just me though.

And archie can be "defeated" by normal men. But only for a time (long enough to regenerate in another form as the first Blight can attest to). Powerful? Yeah supremely powerful? Not so much. If he was he wouldn't be able to be "killed".

Hey that thing was a **** to kill.

Well, to be fair, that was a corrupted old god 

Question, do we know for sure they're corrupted? Was there a codex or something from someone that confirms the belief that the Archdemons are corrupted rather than in their original state?

[Ryzaki]

Emzamination wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...


Oh sure I'd be burned and they are quite suspectible to a blade to the neck or someone burning them to death as well. There are plenty of humans that can kill me in the blink of an eye. I'm not going to worship them. They can be killed as well.

Nah he plays grand theft me with the nearest poor darkspawn.

Unless their last name is krueger, then I'd suggest you sleep with one eye open...or rather not sleep at all for that matter

Losing the wings, size, wings, power and did I mention wings? He must of felt like Aerie, she didn't want to live in a world without wings either.

lol I'd suggest they do the same. Always one looking to up their killcount.

Ugh Aerie. Well he at least gets it back...eventually just for them to kill him again and the process starts all over.

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean the immortal ones that the GWs kill?

Yes the immortal one that only the grey warden can kill, that's the one.

*I edited*

GWs are human creations. No offense but I wouldn't worship anything killable by man. It feels ridculous frankly. I don't think of something killable when I hear the word god. That's just me though.

And archie can be "defeated" by normal men. But only for a time (long enough to regenerate in another form as the first Blight can attest to). Powerful? Yeah supremely powerful? Not so much. If he was he wouldn't be able to be "killed".

Hey that thing was a **** to kill.

True but they DID kill it.

[Heimdall]

Vandicus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean the immortal ones that the GWs kill?

Yes the immortal one that only the grey warden can kill, that's the one.

*I edited* 

GWs are human creations. No offense but I wouldn't worship anything killable by man. It feels ridculous frankly. I don't think of something killable when I hear the word god. That's just me though.

And archie can be "defeated" by normal men. But only for a time (long enough to regenerate in another form as the first Blight can attest to). Powerful? Yeah supremely powerful? Not so much. If he was he wouldn't be able to be "killed".

Hey that thing was a **** to kill.

Well, to be fair, that was a corrupted old god 

Question, do we know for sure they're corrupted? Was there a codex or something from someone that confirms the belief that the Archdemons are corrupted rather than in their original state?

Does the Architect's testimony count?

[Vandicus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean the immortal ones that the GWs kill?

Yes the immortal one that only the grey warden can kill, that's the one.

*I edited* 

GWs are human creations. No offense but I wouldn't worship anything killable by man. It feels ridculous frankly. I don't think of something killable when I hear the word god. That's just me though.

And archie can be "defeated" by normal men. But only for a time (long enough to regenerate in another form as the first Blight can attest to). Powerful? Yeah supremely powerful? Not so much. If he was he wouldn't be able to be "killed".

Hey that thing was a **** to kill.

Well, to be fair, that was a corrupted old god 

Question, do we know for sure they're corrupted? Was there a codex or something from someone that confirms the belief that the Archdemons are corrupted rather than in their original state?

Does the Architect's testimony count?

I remember his statements. I'm just not at all sure that we can trust him or that they're not his own particular speculations. Maybe he's just trying to avoid shaking people up too much so he confirms preconcieved notions of the Archdemons.