895 réponses à ce sujet

[Maclimes]

David Gaider wrote...

Either the insults and aggressiveness in some of the posts here are toned down or bans will be handed out. I have the power-- I will use it.

Hey, guys, stop distracting the devs with your arguing. There are plenty of awesome threads full of awesome ideas that we would love to get some feedback on.  But they can't do that if they're too busy handing out bans and trying to keep everyone in line.

*cough cough* 

Modifié par Maclimes, 21 septembre 2012 - 04:23 .

[Cultist]

Wulfram wrote...

"We need to worship the Old Gods so they stop trying to kill us" isn't any crazier than "we need to worship the Maker so he stops making the Old Gods try to kill us"

You should go see Cabin in the Woods )))

[In Exile]

If I tell people to go to hell, it doesn't mean I literally want them to go to the part of the afterlife where they will suffer eternally.

Let's not overstate dialogue's impact on faith.

[Xilizhra]

Maclimes wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Either the insults and aggressiveness in some of the posts here are toned down or bans will be handed out. I have the power-- I will use it.

Hey, guys, stop distracting the devs with your arguing. There are plenty of awesome threads full of awesome ideas that we would love to get some feedback on.  But they can't do that if they're too busy handing out bans and trying to keep everyone in line.

*cough cough* 

So you want to start trying to steal each others' thread readers? That's a new one.

[Spicen]

wsandista wrote...

Spicen wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Spicen wrote...

Then you have no justification for hating me...............

Yes I do. You have horrible English skills.

Just wondering why you hate me saying that i do not support atheism. I did not do sth horrible to you did i?

The grammatical abortions that are your posts have burned my eyes.

That is not a very viable reason, no?

To you perhaps.

Ok, i will not continue this, lest Mr. Gaider bans me or possibly this thread. Im done with this, okay.

[Calians]

Wulfram wrote...

"We need to worship the Old Gods so they stop trying to kill us" isn't any crazier than "we need to worship the Maker so he stops making the Old Gods try to kill us"

Not crazy. The Qun, you get out of line..bad things happen.

Modifié par Calians, 21 septembre 2012 - 04:26 .

[Vandicus]

Xilizhra wrote...

The option would require secret knowledge that the Old Gods are really good guys. Flemeth and Morrigan do not appear to worship the Old Gods, nor are their goals with the Old Gods soul necessarily good or evil. Their goal with it might very well be selfish.

The established common knowledge in Thedas is that the Old Gods are evil. The worshippers of the Old Gods are apocalypse type worshippers. In order for a benign worship of Old Gods option to exist, the character needs to have super secret special knowledge about the Old Gods.

Um, are a couple of codex entries in Origins really that secret? It's a matter of historical record that, hey, the giant dragons underground weren't ravaging Tevinter until they started getting corrupted by the darkspawn.

But since the odds of this may be low, I reiterate my support to just have an atheist PC in DA3, and one who would support the weakening of the Chantry and obliteration of the templars.

The latter two options seem like good things to have in the game. A meaningful choice in mages vs templars(I hope by obliterate the templars you mean dissolve the organization, not kill everyone in it) is a good thing to have.

I'm still not convinced that having an atheist option adds anything to the game, any more than worshipping Andraste adds to the character. Worship of Andraste is the most likely, and I don't see any benefit to using this as a distinguishing point for  the protagonist(unless the protagonist is a Chantry member in which case it is a defining part of their personality). If Qun belief was possible, that would dramatically change things. Atheism vs Andraste worship does not appear to have a huge impact on a character's personality. 

[Maclimes]

Xilizhra wrote...

So you want to start trying to steal each others' thread readers? That's a new one.

I doubt that. 

[Xilizhra]

The latter two options seem like good things to have in the game. A meaningful choice in mages vs templars(I hope by obliterate the templars you mean dissolve the organization, not kill everyone in it) is a good thing to have.

I wouldn't kill everyone. I'll accept surrenders.

I'm still not convinced that having an atheist option adds anything to the game, any more than worshipping Andraste adds to the character. Worship of Andraste is the most likely, and I don't see any benefit to using this as a distinguishing point for the protagonist(unless the protagonist is a Chantry member in which case it is a defining part of their personality). If Qun belief was possible, that would dramatically change things. Atheism vs Andraste worship does not appear to have a huge impact on a character's personality.

It doesn't indeed, but it makes quite a difference to the roleplaying experiences of many people. Hence, it's easy to add, at little cost, i.e. exactly the kind of thing they should be putting in.

[MichaelStuart]

I support being able to outright say there is no Maker.

[Eternal Phoenix]

M25105 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

M25105 wrote...

I'm on the religious war wagon, as long as the player character gets to shout stuff like "Burn heretic" or "By fire be purged" "For the Maker" "Die in the Maker's name" "I am the Maker's wrath".

Certainly sounds cooler than "Die in the non-existentant deity I don't believe in"

Yeah man. Bioware should take notes of these battlecries.

"I am THE MAKER'S WRATH!"

Just sounds epic.

Damn straight! Besides, as a religious person myself I think the Maker is just another word for God, helps that the Maker is never depicted, so that makes it extra cool to slay heretic darkspawns. All that's missing are battlecries.

"I am the Maker's wrath incarnate, burn in righteous fury demon filth!" Ah yeaaaah!

Same here and totally agree.

One of the reasons I like the DA series is because it allows you to roleplay a religious protagonist.

[Xilizhra]

MichaelStuart wrote...

I support being able to outright say there is no Maker.

That'd work well enough.

[Spicen]

Calians wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

"We need to worship the Old Gods so they stop trying to kill us" isn't any crazier than "we need to worship the Maker so he stops making the Old Gods try to kill us"

Not crazy. The Qun, you get out of line..bad things happen.

That should happen in the andrastrian chantry, you become ahteiest, you lose your awesome button. Perios.

[upsettingshorts]

It's very simple: The contemporary notions of atheism and secularism floating around this thread and others like it pretend that history isn't about cause and effect.

As such, they can make demands like... "let's fight all religion!" in a world - Thedas - that isn't remotely prepared to challenge the moral authority of religion.

The secularism of the Enlightenment does not happen without the humanism of the Renaissance, the humanism of the Renaissance doesn't happen without the breaking down of Church authority during the Reformation, the Reformation doesn't happen without the various crisis of the Catholic Church in the previous centuries, the various crisis don't happen without widespread corruption and politicization of the Church, and there isn't any classical philosophy to "re-discover" during the Renaissance if the Greeks and Romans never wrote anything down.

The problem with these threads is they advocate jumping from the beginning to the end without anything like the above ever taking place, and this strains credulity in favor of arguing for what essentially amounts to wish fulfillment. "I do not like organized religion in real life, and would take great pleasure in tearing one down in a game."

I say all of this as a real contemporary atheist. But I do not pretend that modern secularism isn't the result of centuries of slow, inconsistent progress. These are steps Thedas has not taken yet, and while I'd be interested in seeing them being taken, in their own way in their own time, I'm not about to throw my hat in with those who would say all those steps aren't as important as the end result. Because they're wrong.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 septembre 2012 - 04:36 .

[Vandicus]

MichaelStuart wrote...

I support being able to outright say there is no Maker.

That made me think of the protagonist walking into a Templar barracks and this scene happening. 

 

[Xilizhra]

As such, they can make demands like... "let's fight all religion!" in a world - Thedas - that isn't remotely prepared to challenge the moral authority of religion.

Again, I have no intent to fight all religion. If I can't be atheistic, I'm totally fine with following some non-Andrastian, non-Qun religion. I just think those'd be harder to implement.

[Spicen]

Xilizhra wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

I support being able to outright say there is no Maker.

That'd work well enough.

Well BW can make a scenario like this- oppose the maker, the chantry will send bags of templars to kill you. Could work.

[Xilizhra]

Spicen wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

I support being able to outright say there is no Maker.

That'd work well enough.

Well BW can make a scenario like this- oppose the maker, the chantry will send bags of templars to kill you. Could work.

The Chantry no longer controls the templars. However, I'm having templars come after me anyway for fighting in the mage rebellion, so no loss.

[Spicen]

@Xilizhra- Just a curious question- would you dissolve the chantry if Leliana stood in your way?

[Spicen]

Xilizhra wrote...

Spicen wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

I support being able to outright say there is no Maker.

That'd work well enough.

Well BW can make a scenario like this- oppose the maker, the chantry will send bags of templars to kill you. Could work.

The Chantry no longer controls the templars. However, I'm having templars come after me anyway for fighting in the mage rebellion, so no loss.

Well then Lord Seeker *spoiler* can send templars to you.

[Calians]

At the end of the day after smashing a mage rebellion me and the lord seeker will be chillen at the Imperial Chantry singing of our victory.

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra- Just a curious question- would you dissolve the chantry if Leliana stood in your way?

That's not my plan to begin with. I doubt she'd be block the destruction of the templars.

Well then Lord Seeker *spoiler* can send templars to you.

I'm sure he can, but I'm also sure he'd be doing it anyway.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Calians wrote...

At the end of the day after smashing a mage rebellion me and the lord seeker will be chillen at the Imperial Chantry singing of our victory.

Very religious extremist templar will be there too sitting on some mage corpses while quoting verses from The Chant of Light.

[gangly369]

I really don't see why this matters. My characters have never been 'religious' but they haven't been outright atheist either. It's a non-issue for me. The important thing is that their are mages and templars killing each other, civil wars are erupting, and the qunari are gearing up for a full-scale invasion (throw in people like Corypheus and Flemeth just to add to the ever growing chaos as well) . What my PC personally believes in (religious wise) is the least of my worries.

And for the record, my PCs will take the same approach that I take in real life: they don't give a **** about any religious gods. Maybe they exist, maybe they don't, who cares? Just live your life. Or in the case of DA universe, just try to stay alive long enough to find Merrill again:)

[Calians]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Calians wrote...

At the end of the day after smashing a mage rebellion me and the lord seeker will be chillen at the Imperial Chantry singing of our victory.

Very religious extremist templar will be there too sitting on some mage corpses while quoting verses from The Chant of Light.

Down with mages. They are nothing but abominations that should have been dealt with.