191 réponses à ce sujet

[Jerrybnsn]

Pelle6666 wrote...

Mass effect 2, perfect model for the use of a dialog wheel. Many options that defines your character.

I couldn't stand the way ME2 system worked.  I played it after Origins and was just using the system to whatever and however I wanted to have Shepard speak.  Sometimes nice, diplomatic or rough.  It was towards the end of the game when I started realizing that playing a middle of the road character locks you out of certain response options because I wasn't high enough in either paragon or renegade.  I couldn't defuse the Jack and Miranda situation.  Totally hated the ME2 conversation system because of this.

I was sort of glad that they only had two options for ME3 because then I didn't have to worry about playing how I wanted anymore.  Not that only two options was good, it wasn't,  just that I didn't have to worry about getting railroaded into one personality or other. 

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 21 septembre 2012 - 11:41 .

[Knight of Dane]

The difference between Mass Effect and Dragon Age's dialogue wheels is that Mass Effects lets you set a morality that your player needs to follow if he wishes to solve certain problems, while still being a static brick.
In Dragon Age it sets your characters personality but has so few defining instances that it's nothing but fluff in the end.

[oui_je_danse]

eroeru wrote...

oui_je_danse wrote...
I would agree that more surprises would be better.

That is all for this topic.

They could do better for DA:O, but they definitely MUST do better than DA2. DA2 was such a downfall in this department (which partains to "believability") that many are struck with disappointment over this. No more backwards thinking and cheap gimmicks please.

I'm not sure why you're quoting me. My reply was in support of DA2 dialogue.

I feel that the wheel/symbol system gave me personally a better role play experience. The kinds of choices I was making were a lot more clear and it freed me up to experiment more with responses. The full lines of text (paired with the creepy doll Warden) from DA:O were frustrating because the words did not to convey their delivery. I had NO idea how my character was behaving.

To get back to my actual point about surprises - A surprise would be something like... a situation is getting out of hand and your character steps in and acts really diplomatic and serene. This pisses another character off more and they attack, versus a sarcastic or aggressive choice. You're still choosing how you're playing, but you're not deciding how an NPC will react to it.

[Jerrybnsn]

oui_je_danse wrote...


I feel that the wheel/symbol system gave me personally a better role play experience. The kinds of choices I was making were a lot more clear and it freed me up to experiment more with responses. The full lines of text (paired with the creepy doll Warden) from DA:O were frustrating because the words did not to convey their delivery. I had NO idea how my character was behaving.

How is it roleplaying if you want to see how someone else will deliver a line?

[oui_je_danse]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

oui_je_danse wrote...


I feel that the wheel/symbol system gave me personally a better role play experience. The kinds of choices I was making were a lot more clear and it freed me up to experiment more with responses. The full lines of text (paired with the creepy doll Warden) from DA:O were frustrating because the words did not to convey their delivery. I had NO idea how my character was behaving.

How is it roleplaying if you want to see how someone else will deliver a line?

Is your comment against the wheel or against voice acting?

[Cultist]

Knight of Dane wrote...

The difference between Mass Effect and Dragon Age's dialogue wheels is that Mass Effects lets you set a morality that your player needs to follow if he wishes to solve certain problems, while still being a static brick.
In Dragon Age it sets your characters personality but has so few defining instances that it's nothing but fluff in the end.

In other words - just replacing phrases with autodialogues to cover inability to make a complex dialogue with crippled dialoigue wheel.

[zyntifox]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Make it so that when we choose an option, we know exactly what the PC is going to do as a result.

The maximum acceptable level of surprise is zero.

I agree. Having the full dialogue be visable when highlighting, and maybe holding a button, a dialogue option would solve so many problems i have with the paraphrase system.

[Jerrybnsn]

oui_je_danse wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

oui_je_danse wrote...


I feel that the wheel/symbol system gave me personally a better role play experience. The kinds of choices I was making were a lot more clear and it freed me up to experiment more with responses. The full lines of text (paired with the creepy doll Warden) from DA:O were frustrating because the words did not to convey their delivery. I had NO idea how my character was behaving.

How is it roleplaying if you want to see how someone else will deliver a line?

Is your comment against the wheel or against voice acting?

A little of both since I assumed that was what your post was about by the bolded lines up above.

[Kidd]

EDIT: Post removed, this isn't what this topic has evolved into. I'll create a new thread about this instead.

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 22 septembre 2012 - 10:05 .

[Knight of Dane]

Cultist wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

The difference between Mass Effect and Dragon Age's dialogue wheels is that Mass Effects lets you set a morality that your player needs to follow if he wishes to solve certain problems, while still being a static brick.
In Dragon Age it sets your characters personality but has so few defining instances that it's nothing but fluff in the end.

In other words - just replacing phrases with autodialogues to cover inability to make a complex dialogue with crippled dialoigue wheel.

No

[Cultist]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Cultist wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

The difference between Mass Effect and Dragon Age's dialogue wheels is that Mass Effects lets you set a morality that your player needs to follow if he wishes to solve certain problems, while still being a static brick.
In Dragon Age it sets your characters personality but has so few defining instances that it's nothing but fluff in the end.

In other words - just replacing phrases with autodialogues to cover inability to make a complex dialogue with crippled dialoigue wheel.

No

Really? You are forced into one of three loosely-defined personalities, that replace lines with autodialogues and remove any option to act differently.

[Knight of Dane]

Cultist wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Cultist wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

The difference between Mass Effect and Dragon Age's dialogue wheels is that Mass Effects lets you set a morality that your player needs to follow if he wishes to solve certain problems, while still being a static brick.
In Dragon Age it sets your characters personality but has so few defining instances that it's nothing but fluff in the end.

In other words - just replacing phrases with autodialogues to cover inability to make a complex dialogue with crippled dialoigue wheel.

No

Really? You are forced into one of three loosely-defined personalities, that replace lines with autodialogues and remove any option to act differently.

Auto Dialogue is shaite, no question.

But nothing ever forces you to only select one kind of response through the game. I play all my playthroughs mixed.
And as I stated before, I support the DW, but it needs to be improved.

[TimB991]

In Alpha Protocol, you have a dialogue wheel as well, only here it's on a timer (so no strange, immersion breaking 10 minute pauses), and the options of which depicted which mood you would (aggressive, suave, professional, flirt; accept/decline, etc.). I found it to be an improved way to implement the dialogue wheel as now you aren't left guessing what you're going to choose as the mood is clearly defined. 

On a similar note, The Walking Dead series does this timer-based approach as well, and it works seeing that the responses generally aren't very long.

Either that, or use Deus Ex: Human Revolution's option: the dialogue wheel with the little summaries, but when you hover over the options, you get to see the full text of the response. That'd fix a lot of the problems people seem to have with the dialogue wheel.

And about the X amount of personalities: I agree that there should be more possibilities when it comes to the dialogue choices, esp. the neutral one.

JM2C,

-Tim

Modifié par TimB991, 22 septembre 2012 - 02:50 .

[eroeru]

oui_je_danse wrote...

eroeru wrote...

oui_je_danse wrote...
I would agree that more surprises would be better.

That is all for this topic.

They could do better for DA:O, but they definitely MUST do better than DA2. DA2 was such a downfall in this department (which partains to "believability") that many are struck with disappointment over this. No more backwards thinking and cheap gimmicks please.

I'm not sure why you're quoting me. My reply was in support of DA2 dialogue.

Saying "more surprises would be good" in that context was not in support of DA2. It was saying what would be a nice direction to change towards. All of my previous posts were in perfect agreement with this, so I quoted.

The fact that I disagree with you on the wheel mechanic doesn't mean I cannot agree with you in a more general statement - I wanted to point out that with that sentence you practically agreed to my plea (though did not agree that it would be so crucial and that it was insufficient in DA2, probably).

---

However, I do need to add, once more, that the surprises are essential when it comes to picked-line functioning, which shows itself most in NPC (sic!) reactions.

Yet PC (sic) answers and intent themselves need to be absolutely transparent.

Modifié par eroeru, 22 septembre 2012 - 09:35 .

[b09boy]

Maclimes wrote...

Look, I know everyone is entitled to their opinions, and lord knows we all have them. But to those of you just saying, "No wheel at all"... it's not helpful. Bioware has outright said, without question, that the dialogue wheel will be in the game. Let's try to keep the comments to ways that the wheel can be improved and implemented, instead of just saying, "No wheel".

It's not helpful only because Bioware wants to be stupid about it.  The system is less than pointless and I'll tell them as much every time I see it come up.  If they want to continue to ignore it then it's a damn shame.  If you don't like to hear it then ignore me.

[RedWulfi]

I liked the dialog wheel. But nowhere near as much as DAO conversation options.
One line could lead off to a completely different topic.
But in DA2...
Diplomatic - Be a nice guy
Humor - Be a smartass
Aggressive - Be a douchebag

Everyone ends up playing the same character at the end of the day.

[Cimeas]

In DA2 Hawke had a personality. I don't like it if the full line is displayed, because then I have to click on it and hear my character say it, which is a waste of time. At the same time, I like character voice acting. Therefore I think the paraphrase system is good.

It gave Hawke at least some semblance of personality. Yes, I could 'imagine' my character having a personality but it's not the same as seeing it in the game.

Modifié par Cimeas, 22 septembre 2012 - 11:31 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Why does Bioware even want the DW? The reason I got into DA was because it was a different type of RPG then ME,

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 23 septembre 2012 - 12:07 .

[The Night Haunter]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Why does Bioware even want them the DW? The reason I got into DA was because it was a different type of RPG then ME,

Exactly. Just cause it works in ME doesnt mean it is needed in DA

[Korusus]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Why does Bioware even want the DW? The reason I got into DA was because it was a different type of RPG then ME,

The reason they want the dialogue wheel is because it is their baby, they consider it more "cinematic", its easier for consoles, and they are going to shoehorn it into every game they make (even SWTOR) regardless of how the fans feel about it.

The day it is abandoned for good cannot come soon enough.

[Vicious]

The reason they want the dialogue wheel is because it is their baby, they consider it more "cinematic", its easier for consoles, and they are going to shoehorn it into every game they make (even SWTOR) regardless of how the fans feel about it.

you obviously couldn't tell by reading it here, but the dialogue wheel is actually a very popular feature and that, plus the 'cinematic' and it being 'bioware's baby' [both very true points] is why it isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Anyway it needs:
A, more options. DA2 proved that hardcore DA:O fans want the way where you have 10 different things to say and 3 possible responses.
B, a toggle that shows exactly what the character's about to say. Again, to appease the DA:O fans.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Why bother with dialogue wheel when BioWare could just thrown in auto-dialogue? /sarcasm

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 23 septembre 2012 - 12:59 .

[oui_je_danse]

Hm. I think we're getting bogged down in debating the merits of dialogue wheel versus text list. Maybe we could steer this back to the actual topic?

Anny78 wrote...

I liked the DA2 version very much, with all the colors/personalities and special icons and I'd like to keep it for DA3, although I wouldn't mind if the romance/heart icons disappeared.

What do you think it will/should look like?

One idea I found intriguing from some previous replies has been the occasional silence option. It would be interesting if there were times you could go true neutral and stay out of a situation. This wouldn't have to be a common thing, but occasionally interesting. Bonus points if both sides get pissed at you for it.

I like the special icons, but we didn't often get many choices outside the main three. Maybe more options and not knowing when something will result in battle.

As for the heart icons - they should remain so long as this world has gamers who did not understand what kind of massage Zevran was offering. *sigh*

[Cultist]

Korusus wrote...
The reason they want the dialogue wheel is because it is their baby, they consider it more "cinematic", its easier for consoles, and they are going to shoehorn it into every game they make (even SWTOR) regardless of how the fans feel about it.

The day it is abandoned for good cannot come soon enough.

They should lock this baby in the Mass Effect attic the moment he was born. He was pretty happy htere.

Modifié par Cultist, 23 septembre 2012 - 06:34 .

[eroeru]

^ It's patented. They're much too emotional about their "achievements", and prolly hold dear to the patent document itself, revereing it even.

Very irrational, as it does hinder their games.
Simple toggle-options that customize the game would quickly remedy the situation.