191 réponses à ce sujet

[Yobel]

They should keep dialogue wheel from DA II, but it should expand: polite, rude, sarcastic, wise/neutral and romance. Of course, romance icon/dialogue only in scenes that makes sense, not in every single dialogue.

[Sir Caradoc]

I think the wheel should show the entire dialog line text. That way I know what i'm going to say at the very least and make my decision based on that instead of just randomly deciding between "being nice/funny" or "being rude/punching in the face"

I hated when I didn't know what the character was going to say. It takes away me from being that character. it felt like i was watching a film instead of being that character. Icons and colours are many times plain distracting for the immersion. Often those icons and colours ruin the excitement from that scene. The heart icon for example felt so immature and embarrassing.

Why not make this toggleable in options? Icons and colours for those who prefer them and rest of us could enjoy only the text in our wheel.

[KiwiQuiche]

Need more variants with dialogue.

I was only fine with the icons with the heart so I don't get the damn ninjamance. Though to be fair it was kinda obvious in DAO if you were trying to start something. I remember reading how some people were in a rage over Zevran with the massage thing "I TOTALLY DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS A COME ON ASHJASDFJKGF" which was utterly hilarious to read.

[formaristarry]

I just want the dominant personality to be separate from morality in some way when choosing dialogue. It would be great to be able to choose personality in the character creation and then have your choices throughout the game concern morality.That way the pc can be 'sarcastic good' or 'sarcastic evil' or 'sarcastic neutral'. It would mean committing to a personality before each playthrough, but I would prefer that over a moralistic choice giving me a point toward a certain dominant personality.

Also if there are 'perks' to each personality like in da2 where you have options in dialogue that you wouldn't otherwise have that would work out great with this for replayability.

[Felya87]

I will always say that's better if the wheel of torture (ok, is part of the Inquisition thing,if you look.) was burn, but I can still accept it only if there aren't those insulting icons. I fell very idiot looking at that heart. Like I didn't know that "kiss him" was a romantic action!

and the dialog option where very slim. three are really too few, if you have played DA:O.

In the end, less icons and more words.

sorry for my bad English, anyway.

[oui_je_danse]

If they kept the wheel but added more options then gave people the ability to toggle icons on/off and toggle paraphrase/full text, would that cover EVERY base? Is that feasible for DA3?

On the one hand it seems like we want an awful lot out of the dialogue system. On the other hand I'd be happy with a lot less combat and some strategic conversing instead.

[abnocte]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

abnocte wrote...

I prefer the whole silent-dialogue thing but since I highly doubt they are going back to it anytime soon....

But them bringing it back only becomes less likely if we stop asking for it.

You know, I was here typing an explanation a to why I wasn't asking for a silent-dialogue and I realized that what I wrote was total rubbish. There is no way in hell I'll to come to appreciate the dialogue wheel and its implementation.
I don't even go half as far a you do when roleplaying and I feel it is awfully restrictive!

Knight of Dane wrote...

OOOOOOOoooh finally a link where I can refrence to my signature!

I love the dialogue wheel and I don't feel that it necessarily needs to change, but the usage of it needs to change.

Choise variables:
They need to be improved. Off the top of my head I can only remember one singe instance in DA2 where you can make a choise based on personality alone. Siding with petrice against the Qunari and keeping Ser Varnell and her alive as allies.
You can only do this if you have the direct personality.
There are other instances of course like lying to Karras if you have humorous personality or calm the mob down when you look for Anders in act 1, but those instances can be replaced by Varric and Carver/Bethany.
Make the personality matter. Let there be consequense to your Hawke's behaviour. Be able to save a hostage out of humorous charm, be able to talk a riot down, be able to threaten a guard to let you through a door without it being possible just by picking the right companion. That's too easy.

I don't really see a direct relation between personality and behaviour, even if DA2 does exactly that.

You can be a total son of a **** and still be diplomatic if you consider that it is the way to obtain what you want.

With a silent-dialogue the option to side with Patrice, to lie to Karras, etc. would have been there for the player to see and decide him/herself which option suited the character he/she was trying to roleplay. Whether the PC will succeed when choosing those options would be determined by stats/skill points, so the game never assumed what motives where behind what the PC was saying.
DA does by associating diplomacy with being "good" and lies with being "sarcastic".

Give us a bonus!
Make the personality matter. Make instances where you perhaps meet a certain dude only if he heard about your diplomatic mind, or a elf seeks you out because she has heard of your cunning wit and quick tounge. Or perhaps let a commander ask for your assistance because he heard you get the job done and are effective.
Let it give us a reputation

I remember playing other RPG's where such things would happen, but they where related to how you solved different quests.
You can get the job done, but whether you are "good/sarcastic/aggressive" has little to no bearing with it.

Modifié par abnocte, 25 septembre 2012 - 10:14 .

[TheJediSaint]

I'd like there to be spinners added to the Dialogue Wheel in DA3.

[QueenPurpleScrap]

muy_thaiguy wrote...

More clarity on what your dialogue will lead up to. Too many times you would have a friendly conversation, and then you'll get to a point where it's 3 romance options, and 1 "renegade" option to ****** them off. That was one thing that really threw me off.

This happened to me as well. It really threw me when the one non-heart option was completely and unnecessarily rude. This is in Act I, so there was absolutely no reason to go there. The dialogue wheel definitely needs to be improved in a number of ways.

• The icons need to be replaced and better used. Maybe more icons so you have a better feel for the tone your character is going for.  For instance, the Heart icon seemed to be used for definite romance path options as well as flirt or keep the possibility open.1) "You are a major stud-muffin and I want to jump your bones" and 2) "I look forward to working with you and getting to know you" would both have the heart icon but 2 could easily just be a friendly response which doesn't shut down the possibility of a romance later. Maybe a handshake icon would be more appropriate for response #2. There were also options where charming was more sarcastic, jokey was rude/harsh, etc.
• Do I want to see what I am going to say and do? Oh yeah. I'm happy with a setting I can toggle: 'Show complete dialog option with mouse hover. (including alt text for the icon)'
• The icons, if used, need to be completely based on what you want your character's intentions to be. The other person's response can be a surprise. We've all had experiences where we say something and mean it to be taken one way but is taken in another.
• I like the silent option '...' a nonverbal 'please continue'
• Definitely a neutral option. The icon could be balanced scales.
• I agree with the poster who said short sentences don't need a paraphrase.
• I kind of liked knowing which were investigative options as well as the special (starred) options. However, the whole thing about not being able to initiate dialogue whenever I wanted means I couldn't investigate later. Definite drawback, especially since the conversations aren't recorded in the codex and if I can't remember then I'm hosed.
• This may be more of a side note, but it would be nice if sometimes what I learned during an investigation actually became useful information later.
• I did like that by frequently choosing one tone over the others my actual dialog changed later, including additional options (although I think that was only one case). A little more of that would be nice.

While I overall preferred the dialog system of DAO, I would be happy with the dialogue wheel if it is significantly improved. And I did not like the generally non-expressive face of the Warden during conversations, but I see that as a separate animation issue.

[Currently Stoned]

I hate to be cliché' but GET RID OF THE WHEEL. It works in mass effect because commander Shepard responds as a sodier (renegade soldier, neutral/professional or paragon soldier). In dragon age my character could be anyone and limiting it to set 'personalities' detracts from this because by choosing options like in origins I can reflect whatever complex personality and motivation I want including my own.

[EricHVela]

I would prefer an option to have a semi-random list of the first response verbatim (instead of a summary to set the tone of the response) like DA:O and KotOR.

They already have the subtitles. Surely, they could create a numbered list that shows the exact dialog that the protagonist will say next. I would prefer that rather than knowing that up is nice, down is snarky, right is move on and left is investigate.

That would be a nice option in my opinion. I would hope it might be a minor thing to implement, but I have no knowledge of Frostbite 2 and the resources they'll have available for implementing something like that as an option.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 26 septembre 2012 - 05:20 .

[David Gaider]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But them bringing it back only becomes less likely if we stop asking for it.

Asking for it doesn't make it any more likely, either. I've already said that we will have a voiced protagonist and a dialogue wheel. If you wish both these things removed entirely, that's great... but it's also not up for debate. If you wish to discuss it, that's fine... but doing so with the belief that it will influence what is a fundamental design decision sounds like an exercise in frustration on your part.

[Fiery Phoenix]

David Gaider wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But them bringing it back only becomes less likely if we stop asking for it.

Asking for it doesn't make it any more likely, either. I've already said that we will have a voiced protagonist and a dialogue wheel. If you wish both these things removed entirely, that's great... but it's also not up for debate. If you wish to discuss it, that's fine... but doing so with the belief that it will influence what is a fundamental design decision sounds like an exercise in frustration on your part.

Called it. Not that I mind or anything.

Are you familiar with Deus Ex: Human Revolution's dialogue system, David? It's essentially a hybrid between the traditional system used in Origins and the regular dialog wheel from Mass Effect and DA2. If you guys would refer to it for DA3, that'd be cool.

[Malsumis]

So voiced pc with cinematic dialogue is the norm for future bio releases.....

Well at least it's definite and open. Still sad to see it.

[Jugo616]

I find it facinating, how people who find dialogue wheel "abominable" in dragon age 2 had no problems with it in Witcher 2.

[EricHVela]

David Gaider wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But them bringing it back only becomes less likely if we stop asking for it.

Asking for it doesn't make it any more likely, either. I've already said that we will have a voiced protagonist and a dialogue wheel. If you wish both these things removed entirely, that's great... but it's also not up for debate. If you wish to discuss it, that's fine... but doing so with the belief that it will influence what is a fundamental design decision sounds like an exercise in frustration on your part.

The topic title, though, is not about its existence but about its features.

I just want the option to have it without hints to the snarky/nice/investigate options. I think that would also facor at least the first full line of dialog that the protagonist will say (even if it's just the first line out of several). I guess, if the tone-summary provides a good representation, it could still use the summaries.

Again, I don't know how much it would take to make such an option available.

Yet, I get the feeling that other things are taking a very high priority over requests like this. For some reason, that worries me.

[Leoroc]

Does it have to be a wheel? I like lists, or maybe a dialogue tesseract?

[David Gaider]

ReggarBlane wrote...
The topic title, though, is not about its existence but about its features.

Indeed. I've no problem with people discussing how these things are done. Some people like to take that discussion to the point where how they want it done is not to have it at all-- which, like I said, is not on the table.

There's not a lot we can discuss about features we have implemented, and the last time this topic came up several people said "well why don't you just tell us what it's okay to discuss"... not that a list of what's okay or not okay will really stop any of you, of course, but insofar as "this isn't up for discussion" there you go. These two things are not up for discussion, outside of how they can be used.

[Nomen Mendax]

What I want more than anything is a very solid idea of the content of my character's dialogue. I can live without knowing the actual words, but I want to know everything else. So if the spoken dialogue consists of two phrases then I want to know about the content of both phrases.

A good example of what I mean is when Fenris kills Hadriana after promising to let her live. The diplomatic/friendly (I forget the icon) choice's paraphrase is something on the lines of "I understand". I chose it because my Hawke felt that Hadriana was an evil woman who had just sacrificed some of her servants so was OK with her being killed. Instead Hawke sympathized with Fenris about his rotten life which wasn't what I wanted Hawke to say at all (because Fenris was already quite self-absorbed enough).

Both of those are reasonable guesses for what Hawke was going to say, but I don't want to have to guess. I accept the proposition that DA2 generally gave as many dialogue choices as DAO (ignoring the effect of committing to an actual tone). However, the big advantage of DAO was having enough information to make a reasoned choice between available alternatives when none of them was exactly what I wanted to say.

[oui_je_danse]

David Gaider wrote...

These two things are not up for discussion, outside of how they can be used.

Well, you can put me down for wanting the wheel to be used at least once for a manners fight. Like Elizabeth Bennet and Lady Catherine de Bourgh in Pride and Prejudice? I absolutely love their culminating word duel over Lizzie potentially being engaged to Darcy.

[abnocte]

The first time I heard about DA2 dialog wheel, I thought that we will be able to chose "tone" and "paraphrase" independently.

Can't we just have that?

I don't care how the line is delivered by the voice actor, so one recording per line ( just like now ) is enough.
I don't care about the NPC reaction either, so no need to add extra outcomes to the same line.

It would be like going back to Planescape:Torment where you were allowed to choose between two lines with the same text, but one of them tagged as [lie]. That way the game could track the PC "personality" just like P:T tracked The Nameless One alignment... for whatever that's worth. 

Modifié par abnocte, 26 septembre 2012 - 09:45 .

[scootermcgaffin]

I don't mind the dialogue wheel, really. I don't even think it's all that different from DAO/BG/BG2/Whatever only you only get one each of Diplomatic/Sarcastic/Aggressive instead of getting maybe two of each. It's really not a huge loss, in my book.

[Blastback]

David Gaider wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But them bringing it back only becomes less likely if we stop asking for it.

Asking for it doesn't make it any more likely, either. I've already said that we will have a voiced protagonist and a dialogue wheel. If you wish both these things removed entirely, that's great... but it's also not up for debate. If you wish to discuss it, that's fine... but doing so with the belief that it will influence what is a fundamental design decision sounds like an exercise in frustration on your part.

I think those of us who advocate the silent protagonist hope as much that Bioware might be willing to consider implementing it in any new franchises that you make. 

[Eveangaline]

I don't mind the wheel but I'd really love for the paraphrasing to be more accurate to what you end up saying

[Blastback]

Eveangaline wrote...

I don't mind the wheel but I'd really love for the paraphrasing to be more accurate to what you end up saying

At a minimum, the paraphrasing needs to continue to improve.