136 réponses à ce sujet

[aeryk117]

Derek - thank you; well done !

[Derek Hollan]

LePetitRobo wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...
PS - We only have very limited text to work with on splash screen.

Even with that in mind, though...

The Splash Screen says:
"Squad Goal: Extract squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players of the same non-human race."

Swapping that for the nearly identical:
"Squad Goal: Extract squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players all of the same non-human race." 

4 characters added, including the space. Is the space really too limited to put 'all' there? That's all it takes to make it so that the squad goal is accurately conveyed by the splash screen (pun).

Conveying that it's full extraction requires another 5 characters:

"Squad Goal: Extract full squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players all of the same non-human race." 

This probably isn't your deal, but with 9 more characters, it would be obvious to everyone what the requirements were. As-is, a valid interpretation is that two players have to be the same non-human race, and at least one person has to extract. A squad with an Asari Adept, an Asari Justicar, a Geth Infiltrator, and an N7 destroyer could, with a full understanding of the English language, expect to get a commendation pack. That's a problem.

Even clearer would be: Squad must all be the same non-human race, and be at least 2 players.
 

All good points.

We will continue to try to improve.

Thanks

[Rifneno]

Derek Hollan wrote...

PS - We only have very limited text to work with on splash screen.

Then one of the guidelines about designing the operation should be making sure a clear and concise explanation can fit in the limited text for your splash screen.  If you don't have room to write "full extraction" just "extraction", then full shouldn't be a requirement.

[Shia Luck]

Derek Hollan wrote...

LePetitRobo wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...
PS - We only have very limited text to work with on splash screen.

Even with that in mind, though...

The Splash Screen says:
"Squad Goal: Extract squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players of the same non-human race."

Swapping that for the nearly identical:
"Squad Goal: Extract squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players all of the same non-human race." 

4 characters added, including the space. Is the space really too limited to put 'all' there? That's all it takes to make it so that the squad goal is accurately conveyed by the splash screen (pun).

Conveying that it's full extraction requires another 5 characters:

"Squad Goal: Extract full squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players all of the same non-human race." 

This probably isn't your deal, but with 9 more characters, it would be obvious to everyone what the requirements were. As-is, a valid interpretation is that two players have to be the same non-human race, and at least one person has to extract. A squad with an Asari Adept, an Asari Justicar, a Geth Infiltrator, and an N7 destroyer could, with a full understanding of the English language, expect to get a commendation pack. That's a problem.

Even clearer would be: Squad must all be the same non-human race, and be at least 2 players.
 

All good points.

We will continue to try to improve.

Thanks

I was going to post something similar to the two you highlighted Derek, because this really is a continuing issue and it's not like BW and EA don't have a PR department. Is this kind of thing run through PR people? If not, maybe it should be? Their speciality is language.. 

I can understand bug fixes not being easy. I can understand most every attack directed at BW and your defence. I am generally a happy person with ME3 and certainly a fan 0f BW. Things are rarely as clear cut as they seem, but one of my jobs is in PR.,,and while I don#'t have access to data, it really seems non-understandable how, when extraction is part of the mission, the message cannot clarify whether it is full or partial. The number of times the community has complained about that is ridiculous. The current message is so misleading....

The biggest problem I see now is that although you, Derek, get this feedback, do the people who program/write  the message get it? 

Have fun

EDIT: I should also say I appreciate you discussing with us. Am now thinking you get really not enough support from PR department

Modifié par Shia Luck, 21 septembre 2012 - 10:37 .

[ElfKeeper]

But are African Swallows and European Swallows the SAME race!!!????
Well played Derek! Now you just need to explain all missions this way and we will all undstand it...next time do it Life of Brian style!

[LePetitRobot]

What have the Krogans ever done for us...?

No, hold on:

He's not the catalyst, he's a very naughty boy!

[Derek Hollan]

ElfKeeper wrote...

But are African Swallows and European Swallows the SAME race!!!????
Well played Derek! Now you just need to explain all missions this way and we will all undstand it...next time do it Life of Brian style!

Haha, thanks.

As a rule, I DO always look on the bright side of life

[Rifneno]

LePetitRobo wrote...

What have the Krogans ever done for us...?

Defeated the indoctrinated rachni army.  Next question.

[Derek Hollan]

Shia Luck wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

LePetitRobo wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...
PS - We only have very limited text to work with on splash screen.

Even with that in mind, though...

The Splash Screen says:
"Squad Goal: Extract squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players of the same non-human race."

Swapping that for the nearly identical:
"Squad Goal: Extract squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players all of the same non-human race." 

4 characters added, including the space. Is the space really too limited to put 'all' there? That's all it takes to make it so that the squad goal is accurately conveyed by the splash screen (pun).

Conveying that it's full extraction requires another 5 characters:

"Squad Goal: Extract full squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players all of the same non-human race." 

This probably isn't your deal, but with 9 more characters, it would be obvious to everyone what the requirements were. As-is, a valid interpretation is that two players have to be the same non-human race, and at least one person has to extract. A squad with an Asari Adept, an Asari Justicar, a Geth Infiltrator, and an N7 destroyer could, with a full understanding of the English language, expect to get a commendation pack. That's a problem.

Even clearer would be: Squad must all be the same non-human race, and be at least 2 players.
 

All good points.

We will continue to try to improve.

Thanks

I was going to post something similar to the two you highlighted Derek, because this really is a continuing issue and it's not like BW and EA don't have a PR department. Is this kind of thing run through PR people? If not, maybe it should be? Their speciality is language.. 

I can understand bug fixes not being easy. I can understand most every attack directed at BW and your defence. I am generally a happy person with ME3 and certainly a fan 0f BW. Things are rarely as clear cut as they seem, but one of my jobs is in PR.,,and while I don#'t have access to data, it really seems non-understandable how, when extraction is part of the mission, the message cannot clarify whether it is full or partial. The number of times the community has complained about that is ridiculous. The current message is so misleading....

The biggest problem I see now is that although you, Derek, get this feedback, do the people who program/write  the message get it? 

Have fun

EDIT: I should also say I appreciate you discussing with us. Am now thinking you get really not enough support from PR department

I fully admit, I must wear this.  Generally speaking, I am the last line of defense prior to the text going public.  After the design and production teams decide what they want, and the writers and editor decide how to interpret what the production and design teams are saying, I am then expected to come along and inspect it and say, "Yes, I THINK I understand what it being said here."  Obviously, this has been a less than optimal approach.

I will endeavor to serve you better.  Serve being in the context of assist.  Not cooking. 

Cheers

[LePetitRobot]

Rifneno wrote...

LePetitRobo wrote...

What have the Krogans ever done for us...?

Defeated the indoctrinated rachni army.  Next question.

Yeah, obviously... but apart from that.

[Airdessi]

Derek that first reply was hilarious and well spoken! I held my sides laughing.

[Zhuinden]

Derek Hollan wrote...

LePetitRobo wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...
PS - We only have very limited text to work with on splash screen.

Even with that in mind, though...

The Splash Screen says:
"Squad Goal: Extract squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players of the same non-human race."

Swapping that for the nearly identical:
"Squad Goal: Extract squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players all of the same non-human race." 

4 characters added, including the space. Is the space really too limited to put 'all' there? That's all it takes to make it so that the squad goal is accurately conveyed by the splash screen (pun).

Conveying that it's full extraction requires another 5 characters:

"Squad Goal: Extract full squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players all of the same non-human race." 

This probably isn't your deal, but with 9 more characters, it would be obvious to everyone what the requirements were. As-is, a valid interpretation is that two players have to be the same non-human race, and at least one person has to extract. A squad with an Asari Adept, an Asari Justicar, a Geth Infiltrator, and an N7 destroyer could, with a full understanding of the English language, expect to get a commendation pack. That's a problem.

Even clearer would be: Squad must all be the same non-human race, and be at least 2 players.
 

All good points.

We will continue to try to improve.

Thanks

Not to mention that it's also a FULL extraction that the splash screen does not indicate in any way.

[Yajuu Omoi]

Derek Hollan wrote...
I will endeavor to serve you better.  Serve being in the context of assist.  Not cooking. 

Cheers

But...we're HUNGRY!!! 

[comrade8472]

so what's going to happen now that we have confirmed that the splash screen is not accurate?

is the splash screen going to stand, like at the Gas pumps. (the price on the pump is to be taken as correct when the register and pump disagree)??????

[anddill]

All you have to do is looking into this forum. All relevant questions that need to be answered are here five minutes after postig the Operation News.

[GeneralElectric]

OK, I'm glad you realize that the "splash screen" is not in line with what you said on the forum. The screen makes it seem like you only need two people on your squad of the same race, no matter the size of the squad, in order to complete the squad goal. You could have said "Every member in your squad must be the same race in order to complete the squad goal, and your squad must be comprised of at least two players." Please be more explicit in your descriptions. This is a seriously silly ongoing problem.

Modifié par GeneralElectric, 21 septembre 2012 - 11:46 .

[Cohen le Barbare]

The only problem I had is that the splashscreen and the blog both mention "extraction", and not full extraction, which is mentioned only here. It's gonna lead to some frustration.

[Shinobu]

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

The only problem I had is that the splashscreen and the blog both mention "extraction", and not full extraction, which is mentioned only here. It's gonna lead to some frustration.

Full extraction is not necessary.

"Thou CANst win WITHOUT all members making it to wave eleven and boarding thine shuttle."

Canst = CAN
Canst not = CAN'T

Edit: Althouth the splash screen says "full extraction." Now it's just confusing.

Edit 2: FULL EXTRACTION IS NECESSARY. I WAS WRONG.

Modifié par Shinobu, 21 septembre 2012 - 11:53 .

[Derek Hollan]

Shinobu wrote...

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

The only problem I had is that the splashscreen and the blog both mention "extraction", and not full extraction, which is mentioned only here. It's gonna lead to some frustration.

Full extraction is not necessary.

"Thou CANst win WITHOUT all members making it to wave eleven and boarding thine shuttle."

Canst = CAN
Canst not = CAN'T

Sorry, I did correct this in a post following that one and said, "...canst not.."

I will edit the original to reflect that.

[Grinch57]

B'fore ye may pass by Kevin, qwestuns ye must answer seven:
Wot is your name?
Wot is your Quest?
Wot is your favorite colour?
Haw many moost extract?
Wot races moost ye play?
Dost the gyrl Quarian und byo Quarian cownt as the same race?
Moost all hew play be the same race?

It does explain why the pugs I was trying to cajole into doing the squad goal were less than cooperative. If the splash screen was wrong (or at least misleading), the poor folks in the pugs probably thought I was an idiot for telling them stuff that contradicted the splash screen.  I missed the splash screen myself, I started prior to the op beginning, to level up two classes that were not ready to go yet, then I just kept playing as the clock rolled over for the op beginning.  I'll probably see the splash screen when I play again, later tonight. 

Modifié par Grinch57, 22 septembre 2012 - 12:06 .

[Derek Hollan]

Maybe I should sticky this until the operation is over, hmm?

[Kevrulezz]

Derek Hollan wrote...

I fully admit, I must wear this.  Generally speaking, I am the last line of defense prior to the text going public.  After the design and production teams decide what they want, and the writers and editor decide how to interpret what the production and design teams are saying, I am then expected to come along and inspect it and say, "Yes, I THINK I understand what it being said here."  Obviously, this has been a less than optimal approach.

I will endeavor to serve you better.  Serve being in the context of assist.  Not cooking. 

Cheers

I don't know when the spash screen text gets finalized but if it can be changed after the operation announcement thread gets posted here on the forums, perhaps the splash screen text can also be posted in the operation annoncement thread?

That way you guys can recieve feedback from the community before it goes live, just because X number of people working on the operation all understand the text as they understand what it is meant to say and thus interpritate it one way, doesn't mean the rest of us, who are only getting our first look at the text (like many others only see the splash screen and don't visit the forum do) will also interpritate it the correct way.

Just a thought.

[PreGy]

I posted this on the operation thread:

I must warn that, in Spanish version, they translated this:

"Obj. pelotón: extracción completa en cualquier mapa y dificultad. El pelotón debe tener 2 o + jugadores de la misma raza no humana."

Which means (the bold part):

"The squad must have 2 or more players of the same non-human race."

Which it is NOT the same as:

Squad Goal: Full extraction on any difficulty with all squad members as the same non-human race. Requires 2 or more players in squad.



Please, take note of that, because it's totally misleading.

[Cohen le Barbare]

Shinobu wrote...

Cohen le Barbare wrote...

The only problem I had is that the splashscreen and the blog both mention "extraction", and not full extraction, which is mentioned only here. It's gonna lead to some frustration.

Full extraction is not necessary.

"Thou CANst win WITHOUT all members making it to wave eleven and boarding thine shuttle."

Canst = CAN
Canst not = CAN'T

Edit: Althouth the splash screen says "full extraction." Now it's just confusing.

Edit 2: FULL EXTRACTION IS NECESSARY. I WAS WRONG.

So what is canon? The blog post / splashscreen or the BSN mutliplayer/news & announcement forums? I did both, so it's OK but I'm sure a lot of people will believe either this or that.

[mackfactor]

LePetitRobo wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...
PS - We only have very limited text to work with on splash screen.

Even with that in mind, though...

The Splash Screen says:
"Squad Goal: Extract squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players of the same non-human race."

Swapping that for the nearly identical:
"Squad Goal: Extract squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players all of the same non-human race." 

4 characters added, including the space. Is the space really too limited to put 'all' there? That's all it takes to make it so that the squad goal is accurately conveyed by the splash screen (pun).

Conveying that it's full extraction requires another 5 characters:

"Squad Goal: Extract full squad on any difficulty. Squad must have 2+ players all of the same non-human race." 

This probably isn't your deal, but with 9 more characters, it would be obvious to everyone what the requirements were. As-is, a valid interpretation is that two players have to be the same non-human race, and at least one person has to extract. A squad with an Asari Adept, an Asari Justicar, a Geth Infiltrator, and an N7 destroyer could, with a full understanding of the English language, expect to get a commendation pack. That's a problem.

Even clearer would be: Squad must all be the same non-human race, and be at least 2 players.
 

Thanks, guys, you're letting me feel young for a little while!