33 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic_Warlock]

If they didn't listen to fans, they'd be less advanced in acknowledgement of the LGBT player-base. Since the start of Bioware they have made a lot of progress, both in appealing to the fan-base and in the quality of their games (although personally, Baldur's Gate is still my big cheese; wish they'd make a game like that again).

[NKKKK]

David Gaider wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

You're never going to please them all.  Look, from a game look, play control, combat, stats, et al., it's fine listening to what the fans want .  The story on the other hand should come from the writers.  I want to go in with fresh eyes and I want to be taken on a journey, suprised, touched, revolted, excited.  The writers know what they're doing. 

I think I like Dragon Age 2 because it was exactly what I wasn't expecting.  I think some people still can't get over that.  We all know it's flaws, but it had great characters, and took the franchise in a very interesting direction.  We met new people, still got to see our old friends (which is important...don't waste valuble characters....), but Gaider and company had a vision of where it was going.  That vision, despite what you feel about the GAME of Dragon Age 2, is a good one.

So, keep me on my toes.  Keep me surprised.  A little fan service is great.  But let's not go overboard.  Don't be afraid to experiment because a lot of people on these forums are still ranting because things didn't go exactly as they envisioned.  If it went exactly as you envisioned, why the play the game?

Heh. I think this is the first time on these forums someone suggests we shouldn't listen to the fans.

Suffice it to say that we do indeed want to engage the fans in a conversation. "Listening" does not mean we are sitting on the forums, waiting for the fans to tell us what we should make... as if we were writing down a list of story ideas and features, and had no idea of our own regarding what kind of game we wanted. I know some fans seem to think that's what listening is, but those who do probably have as much difficulty with the concept of communication -- meaning that their ability to influence the way we think is the same as their ability to influence the way anyone thinks; the principle is the same. Yelling and being obnoxious has about as much chance of doing that here as it does in real life... if such people know how communication works in real life, of course, I can't rightly say.

Yes, listening too much has its dangers... but so does listening too little. It's entirely possible that what a fan wants is simply not what we're going to do, period the end. It's also possible (even likely) that their suggestions lack the context of resources and business realities that we must contend with, and thus have limited bearing. But it's also possible that they have something interesting to say, and can provide food for thought. If they're satisfied with that qualification for our interaction, then I imagine so are we.

Oh Gaider...oh Gaider

[NedPepper]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Well no but they should try to make as many happy as possible.

I agree.  But the whole "I want the Warden back!" argument...how do you make THOSE people happy? (From a technical standpoint, is it even possible?)  And again, listening to fans about what they want for gameplay features is important.  That's what hurt Dragon Age 2 ultimately.  I'm not saying fans shouldn't say what they want in the game.  But they shouldn't try and dictate a plot and scream when they don't get it.  If you think that didn't happen when Dragon Age 2 was launched, go back and do some reading.  Let the writers tell you the story.

How you PLAY that story is what you should be telling Bioware.  Combat styles. Specializations.  For instance, I want to see the bo stick or rapier added in as weapons.  A weird monk class.  I'd like to see more nuances on the dialogue wheel.  I'd like to see different type enemies with different tactics.  I'd like female dwarves to return.  I'd like to see female Kossith.  I'd kind of like a new design for the Darkspawn.  I want a couple more companions than I had in DA 2.  I do want to see more of that map and have the game feel more expansive. These are just personal suggestions.

I don't want to tell  them bring back the Warden or I won't play the game.  I don't want to tell them who the antagonist should be.  I don't demand the OGB to be wrapped up.  If Hawke shows up, I'll be the first to smile.  If he doesn't, okay.  I'll live with it.  There's so much story potential in Thedas.  And I think they know that. And I think we know that. 

It's not, don't listen to the fans about anything.  It's don't let the fans dictate the direction out of fear of backlash.  Especially after the...unhealthy...response to Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2. 

[NedPepper]

David Gaider wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

You're never going to please them all.  Look, from a game look, play control, combat, stats, et al., it's fine listening to what the fans want .  The story on the other hand should come from the writers.  I want to go in with fresh eyes and I want to be taken on a journey, suprised, touched, revolted, excited.  The writers know what they're doing. 

I think I like Dragon Age 2 because it was exactly what I wasn't expecting.  I think some people still can't get over that.  We all know it's flaws, but it had great characters, and took the franchise in a very interesting direction.  We met new people, still got to see our old friends (which is important...don't waste valuble characters....), but Gaider and company had a vision of where it was going.  That vision, despite what you feel about the GAME of Dragon Age 2, is a good one.

So, keep me on my toes.  Keep me surprised.  A little fan service is great.  But let's not go overboard.  Don't be afraid to experiment because a lot of people on these forums are still ranting because things didn't go exactly as they envisioned.  If it went exactly as you envisioned, why the play the game?

Heh. I think this is the first time on these forums someone suggests we shouldn't listen to the fans.

Suffice it to say that we do indeed want to engage the fans in a conversation. "Listening" does not mean we are sitting on the forums, waiting for the fans to tell us what we should make... as if we were writing down a list of story ideas and features, and had no idea of our own regarding what kind of game we wanted. I know some fans seem to think that's what listening is, but those who do probably have as much difficulty with the concept of communication -- meaning that their ability to influence the way we think is the same as their ability to influence the way anyone thinks; the principle is the same. Yelling and being obnoxious has about as much chance of doing that here as it does in real life... if such people know how communication works in real life, of course, I can't rightly say.

Yes, listening too much has its dangers... but so does listening too little. It's entirely possible that what a fan wants is simply not what we're going to do, period the end. It's also possible (even likely) that their suggestions lack the context of resources and business realities that we must contend with, and thus have limited bearing. But it's also possible that they have something interesting to say, and can provide food for thought. If they're satisfied with that qualification for our interaction, then I imagine so are we.

Oh, and thank you for your reply, David.  It's interesting to hear the thought process behind making these games. 

[ChaosAgentLoki]

nedpepper wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Well no but they should try to make as many happy as possible.

I agree.  But the whole "I want the Warden back!" argument...how do you make THOSE people happy? (From a technical standpoint, is it even possible?)  And again, listening to fans about what they want for gameplay features is important.  That's what hurt Dragon Age 2 ultimately.  I'm not saying fans shouldn't say what they want in the game.  But they shouldn't try and dictate a plot and scream when they don't get it.  If you think that didn't happen when Dragon Age 2 was launched, go back and do some reading.  Let the writers tell you the story.

How you PLAY that story is what you should be telling Bioware.  Combat styles. Specializations.  For instance, I want to see the bo stick or rapier added in as weapons.  A weird monk class.  I'd like to see more nuances on the dialogue wheel.  I'd like to see different type enemies with different tactics.  I'd like female dwarves to return.  I'd like to see female Kossith.  I'd kind of like a new design for the Darkspawn.  I want a couple more companions than I had in DA 2.  I do want to see more of that map and have the game feel more expansive. These are just personal suggestions.

I don't want to tell  them bring back the Warden or I won't play the game.  I don't want to tell them who the antagonist should be.  I don't demand the OGB to be wrapped up.  If Hawke shows up, I'll be the first to smile.  If he doesn't, okay.  I'll live with it.  There's so much story potential in Thedas.  And I think they know that. And I think we know that. 

It's not, don't listen to the fans about anything.  It's don't let the fans dictate the direction out of fear of backlash.  Especially after the...unhealthy...response to Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2. 

This is something I feel that all RPG developers should take to heart. Let the writing team do what they do best. Let them go wild and create what they want. However, let the fans give input on how they want the gameplay to work. Ideas there are far more valuable then with the story. If the story is the focus of the fanbase's complaints and suggestions, then there's very little that's going to be productive. 

Personally, I just want to return to Thedas in a new storyline. I'll speculate and discuss plot points I'd like to see with my friends all the time, however just as the OP said let the writers do their job and go wild. Whether the fanbase reacts well to it or not is not their worry at the time. Their job should be making the best story that they can tell. 

[Nomen Mendax]

Dubozz wrote...

May i ask you a question, David? Which threads/topics here have been most helpful for you or your team?

I'm pretty sure that the topic that David finds most interesting and informative is "what is the definition of role-playing".

[Shadow Fox]

Gaider if you can hear me I want to be able to play as a sexy shadowcaster elf.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 22 septembre 2012 - 12:11 .

[MKDAWUSS]

There is a periodically repeated phrase in sports that goes like this:

"If you keep listening to the fans, you'll find yourself sitting amongst them"

Or something like that. Whether or not that holds true is up to you.