95 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Well if that is the case, one can just ressurect popular characters left and right. And that would push the game towards superero teritory. Not a good thing.

[Shadow Fox]

Rawgrim wrote...

Well if that is the case, one can just ressurect popular characters left and right. And that would push the game towards superero teritory. Not a good thing.

Magic has already done that

[The Night Haunter]

Except that a Fade Spirit had to actually be present (the Spirit of Faith that followed Wynne around) at the time of death for this to occur. It appears there is a limited window when this can be done, since demons/spirits that inhabit older corpses dont actually resurect the corpse, just animate it.

It isnt easy to do, but that doesnt mean its impossible. Hardly makes this DC.

[Rawgrim]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Well if that is the case, one can just ressurect popular characters left and right. And that would push the game towards superero teritory. Not a good thing.

Magic has already done that

Not really. Since the magic had its set of rules, and it actually excist in this world. Same as water and fire.
Bringing people back from the dead is something else entirely, since it has been stated in game that it can`t be done.

[TJPags]

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

All the ret-con talk... they WANTED Lelieana alive. they DONT want Duncan alive. Why? He adds nothing to the future story, his DEATH is what made him so important (as Alistairs motivation). Anything you could want Duncan to do could be done by a new character with the benefit of retaining (whats left) story integrity.

This.

Zevran was a bug.  Howe's decapitation and then death scene - kill scenes aren't canon (not everyone gets them.

Leli's decapitation?  See above.

Her alive in any event if you killed her?  See Ghost's response - DA didn't care what you did, they wanted her alive, she's alive.

Duncan?  He's been toast for ages.  And had no point in being around past when he died anyway, the useless sod.

[Rawgrim]

TJPags wrote...

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

All the ret-con talk... they WANTED Lelieana alive. they DONT want Duncan alive. Why? He adds nothing to the future story, his DEATH is what made him so important (as Alistairs motivation). Anything you could want Duncan to do could be done by a new character with the benefit of retaining (whats left) story integrity.

This.

Zevran was a bug.  Howe's decapitation and then death scene - kill scenes aren't canon (not everyone gets them.

Leli's decapitation?  See above.

Her alive in any event if you killed her?  See Ghost's response - DA didn't care what you did, they wanted her alive, she's alive.

Duncan?  He's been toast for ages.  And had no point in being around past when he died anyway, the useless sod.

That was kind of my whole point in the beginning. If one character`s death can be retconned, so can another.

Meaning I still consider it a 5 percent chance that Duncan or someone else that died could show up later.

[Vandicus]

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Well if that is the case, one can just ressurect popular characters left and right. And that would push the game towards superero teritory. Not a good thing.

Magic has already done that

Not really. Since the magic had its set of rules, and it actually excist in this world. Same as water and fire.
Bringing people back from the dead is something else entirely, since it has been stated in game that it can`t be done.

Magic has only three cardinal rules. One of those has already been shown to be possible to be broken. That Leliana, vision Maker speaks to me Leliana, while in the presence of Andraste's ashes in a monument dedicated to Andraste and the Maker broke another, is not surprising. 

[Rawgrim]

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Well if that is the case, one can just ressurect popular characters left and right. And that would push the game towards superero teritory. Not a good thing.

Magic has already done that

Not really. Since the magic had its set of rules, and it actually excist in this world. Same as water and fire.
Bringing people back from the dead is something else entirely, since it has been stated in game that it can`t be done.

Magic has only three cardinal rules. One of those has already been shown to be possible to be broken. That Leliana, vision Maker speaks to me Leliana, while in the presence of Andraste's ashes in a monument dedicated to Andraste and the Maker broke another, is not surprising. 

Andraste and Leliana speaking to the Maker is up for debate. They could just both been nuts. its more folklore and legends, than hard facts.

[TJPags]

Rawgrim wrote...

TJPags wrote...

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

All the ret-con talk... they WANTED Lelieana alive. they DONT want Duncan alive. Why? He adds nothing to the future story, his DEATH is what made him so important (as Alistairs motivation). Anything you could want Duncan to do could be done by a new character with the benefit of retaining (whats left) story integrity.

This.

Zevran was a bug.  Howe's decapitation and then death scene - kill scenes aren't canon (not everyone gets them.

Leli's decapitation?  See above.

Her alive in any event if you killed her?  See Ghost's response - DA didn't care what you did, they wanted her alive, she's alive.

Duncan?  He's been toast for ages.  And had no point in being around past when he died anyway, the useless sod.

That was kind of my whole point in the beginning. If one character`s death can be retconned, so can another.

Meaning I still consider it a 5 percent chance that Duncan or someone else that died could show up later.

Oh, I completely agree with you - what they did with Leliana - and to a lesswer extent Anders - trashed any credibility character deaths have in this game world, IMO.  So yes, if they wanted Duncan back, then the whole "ahhhh, but we never saw his body!!!!" would suddenly have meaning.

My point is only that they DON'T want him back.  So he won't be.

[Shadow Fox]

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Well if that is the case, one can just ressurect popular characters left and right. And that would push the game towards superero teritory. Not a good thing.

Magic has already done that

Not really. Since the magic had its set of rules, and it actually excist in this world. Same as water and fire.
Bringing people back from the dead is something else entirely, since it has been stated in game that it can`t be done.

Blood Magic.

[The Night Haunter]

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Well if that is the case, one can just ressurect popular characters left and right. And that would push the game towards superero teritory. Not a good thing.

Magic has already done that

Not really. Since the magic had its set of rules, and it actually excist in this world. Same as water and fire.
Bringing people back from the dead is something else entirely, since it has been stated in game that it can`t be done.

Magic has only three cardinal rules. One of those has already been shown to be possible to be broken. That Leliana, vision Maker speaks to me Leliana, while in the presence of Andraste's ashes in a monument dedicated to Andraste and the Maker broke another, is not surprising. 

Which Cardinal Rule is broken? If it's teleporting Gaider actually said they might not be teleporting, just invising and running. (Personally I prefer to think the Tele is a Varric Embelishment ™

[blueumi]

he died alistair was upset for the entire game which made me care that he died

[The Night Haunter]

Not to mention Gaider says we know Duncans fate already, and the only thing we could possible 'know' is that Duncan is dead.

[TEWR]

I'd like Duncan to return myself. But it's not going to happen, as David Gaider said a couple years back that Duncan was indeed dead -- something he echoed in this thread hours ago.

[Vandicus]

ghostmessiah202 wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Well if that is the case, one can just ressurect popular characters left and right. And that would push the game towards superero teritory. Not a good thing.

Magic has already done that

Not really. Since the magic had its set of rules, and it actually excist in this world. Same as water and fire.
Bringing people back from the dead is something else entirely, since it has been stated in game that it can`t be done.

Magic has only three cardinal rules. One of those has already been shown to be possible to be broken. That Leliana, vision Maker speaks to me Leliana, while in the presence of Andraste's ashes in a monument dedicated to Andraste and the Maker broke another, is not surprising. 

Which Cardinal Rule is broken? If it's teleporting Gaider actually said they might not be teleporting, just invising and running. (Personally I prefer to think the Tele is a Varric Embelishment ™

Second one.

Its impossible for a physical body to enter the Fade. Tevinter mages violate the rule. Its famous for its violation as well as the darkspawn mess. 

[The Night Haunter]

Vandicus wrote...

Second one.

Its impossible for a physical body to enter the Fade. Tevinter mages violate the rule. Its famous for its violation as well as the darkspawn mess. 

Ahh, I see. But that break caused the Black City (maybe) and the Darkspawn.

[Vandicus]

Rawgrim wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Well if that is the case, one can just ressurect popular characters left and right. And that would push the game towards superero teritory. Not a good thing.

Magic has already done that

Not really. Since the magic had its set of rules, and it actually excist in this world. Same as water and fire.
Bringing people back from the dead is something else entirely, since it has been stated in game that it can`t be done.

Magic has only three cardinal rules. One of those has already been shown to be possible to be broken. That Leliana, vision Maker speaks to me Leliana, while in the presence of Andraste's ashes in a monument dedicated to Andraste and the Maker broke another, is not surprising. 

Andraste and Leliana speaking to the Maker is up for debate. They could just both been nuts. its more folklore and legends, than hard facts.

Its called foreshadowing. It may take some time before we know the full details, if ever, but its a very plausible explanation. 

Moreover, look at Leliana's status in DA:O and DA2. She is an important character to the plot(part of the reason she must survive the events in DA:O and why the only place where she can die is conveniently set up so that she can come back). Do you really believe the writers are going to make it "Oh Leliana was just a crazy person, that wacky Justinia thought it was funny so she made Leliana her right hand"? From a meta perspective the likelihood of Leliana having had real visions is high. 

[Rawgrim]

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Well if that is the case, one can just ressurect popular characters left and right. And that would push the game towards superero teritory. Not a good thing.

Magic has already done that

Not really. Since the magic had its set of rules, and it actually excist in this world. Same as water and fire.
Bringing people back from the dead is something else entirely, since it has been stated in game that it can`t be done.

Magic has only three cardinal rules. One of those has already been shown to be possible to be broken. That Leliana, vision Maker speaks to me Leliana, while in the presence of Andraste's ashes in a monument dedicated to Andraste and the Maker broke another, is not surprising. 

Andraste and Leliana speaking to the Maker is up for debate. They could just both been nuts. its more folklore and legends, than hard facts.

Its called foreshadowing. It may take some time before we know the full details, if ever, but its a very plausible explanation. 

Moreover, look at Leliana's status in DA:O and DA2. She is an important character to the plot(part of the reason she must survive the events in DA:O and why the only place where she can die is conveniently set up so that she can come back). Do you really believe the writers are going to make it "Oh Leliana was just a crazy person, that wacky Justinia thought it was funny so she made Leliana her right hand"? From a meta perspective the likelihood of Leliana having had real visions is high. 

I seem to remember one of the devs saying they wouldn`t tell us if the Maker was alive or not - ever.

Leliana helping to stop the blight might be why Justina made her her right hand. Leliana having shown competance etc. Perfectly reasonable to apoint someone your right hand because of that.

[Vandicus]

Rawgrim wrote...

I seem to remember one of the devs saying they wouldn`t tell us if the Maker was alive or not - ever.

Leliana helping to stop the blight might be why Justina made her her right hand. Leliana having shown competance etc. Perfectly reasonable to apoint someone your right hand because of that.

Foreshadowing that is never entirely explained is still foreshadowing. Its quite common practice in writing actually.

Again, do you seriously believe the writers are going to take the route of "Nah Leliana was just psycho, thinking she had visions and stuff. Snorted too much of the good stuff when she was more fun." In fantasy settings, characters that have visions/contact with deities are typically correct, except when they're played for laughs(nutty hobos). Leliana is distinctly not a nutty hobo sort've character. To play her character off for laughs would be ****** poor writing. The only real alternatives the writers have with this is to use the main path of having the visions be true, or go on the side path of having the visions be from someone other than the Maker(the latter being less likely because it doesn't foreshadow ressurection well).

[Rawgrim]

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I seem to remember one of the devs saying they wouldn`t tell us if the Maker was alive or not - ever.

Leliana helping to stop the blight might be why Justina made her her right hand. Leliana having shown competance etc. Perfectly reasonable to apoint someone your right hand because of that.

Foreshadowing that is never entirely explained is still foreshadowing. Its quite common practice in writing actually.

Again, do you seriously believe the writers are going to take the route of "Nah Leliana was just psycho, thinking she had visions and stuff. Snorted too much of the good stuff when she was more fun." In fantasy settings, characters that have visions/contact with deities are typically correct, except when they're played for laughs(nutty hobos). Leliana is distinctly not a nutty hobo sort've character. To play her character off for laughs would be ****** poor writing. The only real alternatives the writers have with this is to use the main path of having the visions be true, or go on the side path of having the visions be from someone other than the Maker(the latter being less likely because it doesn't foreshadow ressurection well).

I know what foreshadowing is. A good example of it would be in a song of ice and fire, when the Starks find the direwolf that has been killed by a stag. Joffrey Baratheon (his house sigil is a stag) executes Ned Stark (house sigil a direwolf). Stuff like that.

If Ned hadn`t been killed by a Baratheon, though, it wouldn`t have been foreshadowing at all. Thats the thing with foreshadowing, you don`t know its forshadowing untill the thing its forshadowing actually happens.


Leliana is clearly based on Joan of Arc, a french woman claiming to speak with God. If she did or not, we will never know.


A third option would be: Leliana lied about the visions to make herself seem more naive. Hiding other motives we don`t know about yet.

[KENNY4753]

I'll admit it would be epic if somehow he survived.

I'm suprised they didn't show his bodies like Cailen's in the return to Ostagar.

[jkflipflopDAO]

He's dead, Jim.

[Shadow Fox]

KENNY4753 wrote...

I'll admit it would be epic if somehow he survived.

I'm suprised they didn't show his bodies like Cailen's in the return to Ostagar.

I'm still pissed I couldn't nic his armor for my female Rogue.*cries*

[Vandicus]

Rawgrim wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I seem to remember one of the devs saying they wouldn`t tell us if the Maker was alive or not - ever.

Leliana helping to stop the blight might be why Justina made her her right hand. Leliana having shown competance etc. Perfectly reasonable to apoint someone your right hand because of that.

Foreshadowing that is never entirely explained is still foreshadowing. Its quite common practice in writing actually.

Again, do you seriously believe the writers are going to take the route of "Nah Leliana was just psycho, thinking she had visions and stuff. Snorted too much of the good stuff when she was more fun." In fantasy settings, characters that have visions/contact with deities are typically correct, except when they're played for laughs(nutty hobos). Leliana is distinctly not a nutty hobo sort've character. To play her character off for laughs would be ****** poor writing. The only real alternatives the writers have with this is to use the main path of having the visions be true, or go on the side path of having the visions be from someone other than the Maker(the latter being less likely because it doesn't foreshadow ressurection well).

I know what foreshadowing is. A good example of it would be in a song of ice and fire, when the Starks find the direwolf that has been killed by a stag. Joffrey Baratheon (his house sigil is a stag) executes Ned Stark (house sigil a direwolf). Stuff like that.

If Ned hadn`t been killed by a Baratheon, though, it wouldn`t have been foreshadowing at all. Thats the thing with foreshadowing, you don`t know its forshadowing untill the thing its forshadowing actually happens.


Leliana is clearly based on Joan of Arc, a french woman claiming to speak with God. If she did or not, we will never know.


A third option would be: Leliana lied about the visions to make herself seem more naive. Hiding other motives we don`t know about yet.

Yes the good old Aizen option is always open with every single character in the game. In order for Aizen type characters to work well they need to have extremely logical reasons for their actions. Visions as a cover story doesn't necessarily help her with anyone. There are other far more effective ways of accomplishing goals. Unless she wants to pass herself off as the next Andraste(which is possible in the real sense, though I find it unlikely in the deception sense) the deception serves no effective purpose. Assuming Leliana is capable of decieving everyone about her personality to that extent, coming up with a virtually useless/stupid deception clashes with the character of a manipulative mastermind. 

[Lithuasil]

If he indeed returns, there'd be one more reason to hope the game includes... "interrogation".

Still he's not coming back. (I hope <.<)