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Duncans Fate in DA3


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#76
Rawgrim

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Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I seem to remember one of the devs saying they wouldn`t tell us if the Maker was alive or not - ever.

Leliana helping to stop the blight might be why Justina made her her right hand. Leliana having shown competance etc. Perfectly reasonable to apoint someone your right hand because of that.


Foreshadowing that is never entirely explained is still foreshadowing. Its quite common practice in writing actually.

Again, do you seriously believe the writers are going to take the route of "Nah Leliana was just psycho, thinking she had visions and stuff. Snorted too much of the good stuff when she was more fun." In fantasy settings, characters that have visions/contact with deities are typically correct, except when they're played for laughs(nutty hobos). Leliana is distinctly not a nutty hobo sort've character. To play her character off for laughs would be ****** poor writing. The only real alternatives the writers have with this is to use the main path of having the visions be true, or go on the side path of having the visions be from someone other than the Maker(the latter being less likely because it doesn't foreshadow ressurection well).



I know what foreshadowing is. A good example of it would be in a song of ice and fire, when the Starks find the direwolf that has been killed by a stag. Joffrey Baratheon (his house sigil is a stag) executes Ned Stark (house sigil a direwolf). Stuff like that.

If Ned hadn`t been killed by a Baratheon, though, it wouldn`t have been foreshadowing at all. Thats the thing with foreshadowing, you don`t know its forshadowing untill the thing its forshadowing actually happens.


Leliana is clearly based on Joan of Arc, a french woman claiming to speak with God. If she did or not, we will never know.


A third option would be: Leliana lied about the visions to make herself seem more naive. Hiding other motives we don`t know about yet.


Yes the good old Aizen option is always open with every single character in the game. In order for Aizen type characters to work well they need to have extremely logical reasons for their actions. Visions as a cover story doesn't necessarily help her with anyone. There are other far more effective ways of accomplishing goals. Unless she wants to pass herself off as the next Andraste(which is possible in the real sense, though I find it unlikely in the deception sense) the deception serves no effective purpose. Assuming Leliana is capable of decieving everyone about her personality to that extent, coming up with a virtually useless/stupid deception clashes with the character of a manipulative mastermind. 



True. But we don`t know her endgame yet, so it might be a brilliant plan for all we know. Same goes for Morrigan. We don`t know everything she is about either. Seeing as the DA setting and story borrows heavily from George Martin`s books, I suspect Morrigan and Flemmeth might be a substitute for the Targaryans (dragons). Biding their time in the outskirts, trying to build power\\an army. something like that. just a theory.

#77
bleetman

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Duncan may be gone, but I've yet to hear anything concrete regarding the fate of his beard.

#78
Guest_Roly Voly_*

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Elton John is dead wrote...

Gaider is just playing you all. Duncan is coming back in DA3 as a new plot twist. Imagine his entrance.

"WTF Duncan I thought you were dead??" - Random Grey Warden

"So did I. LOL" - Duncan

"... turns out it was just Thursday!"

IIRC, that's roughly what Oghren said in my Awakening playthrough after I killed him in Origins

#79
Renmiri1

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Wont Duncan be a bit "ripe" after being dead for 10 years ?

#80
Vandicus

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Rawgrim wrote...



True. But we don`t know her endgame yet, so it might be a brilliant plan for all we know. Same goes for Morrigan. We don`t know everything she is about either. Seeing as the DA setting and story borrows heavily from George Martin`s books, I suspect Morrigan and Flemmeth might be a substitute for the Targaryans (dragons). Biding their time in the outskirts, trying to build poweran army. something like that. just a theory.


I don't actually recall seeing any resemblence between the two. DA has always seemed to me to be borrowing largely from history, while Martin's books had more original (and deeper) cultures. 

Did I miss the location of France, England and Scotland in Martin's books?

The story of the Targaryens does not seem to match Flemeth and Morrigan at all, besides the loose dragon connection. The Targaryens are about brilliant and mad leaders respectively who were once great and could be great again. Flemeth and Morrigan don't have a similar background, or similar viewpoints to any of the Targaryen characters discussed in the novels. 

#81
Vandicus

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bhsup wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Gaider is just playing you all. Duncan is coming back in DA3 as a new plot twist. Imagine his entrance.

"WTF Duncan I thought you were dead??" - Random Grey Warden

"So did I. LOL" - Duncan

"... turns out it was just Thursday!"

IIRC, that's roughly what Oghren said in my Awakening playthrough after I killed him in Origins

 

You can kill Oghren in Origins? :blink:

#82
bleetman

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Vandicus wrote...

You can kill Oghren in Origins? :blink:

With a low enough approval, yes. He'll fight you in camp, and you have the option to kill him afterwards.

Modifié par bleetman, 22 septembre 2012 - 03:58 .


#83
Rawgrim

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Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...



True. But we don`t know her endgame yet, so it might be a brilliant plan for all we know. Same goes for Morrigan. We don`t know everything she is about either. Seeing as the DA setting and story borrows heavily from George Martin`s books, I suspect Morrigan and Flemmeth might be a substitute for the Targaryans (dragons). Biding their time in the outskirts, trying to build poweran army. something like that. just a theory.


I don't actually recall seeing any resemblence between the two. DA has always seemed to me to be borrowing largely from history, while Martin's books had more original (and deeper) cultures. 

Did I miss the location of France, England and Scotland in Martin's books?

The story of the Targaryens does not seem to match Flemeth and Morrigan at all, besides the loose dragon connection. The Targaryens are about brilliant and mad leaders respectively who were once great and could be great again. Flemeth and Morrigan don't have a similar background, or similar viewpoints to any of the Targaryen characters discussed in the novels. 



Ostagar - Castle Black\\The wall. Wardens - the nights watch (they even have simmilar verse they say when joining). The wardens job is to keep the world safe from darkspawn - Nights Watch keeps it safe from the white walkers. Wildlings - Wilders on the other side of the wall. Blood Magic being bad. Dragons starting to show up again.

Just listing some  of the simmilarites.

Ohh I was thinking Flemmeth might be an old god. Trying to "take back what is hers". Something like that. Who knows.

The point is there are plenty simmilarities.

#84
Lithuasil

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Rawgrim wrote...

Ostagar - Castle BlackThe wall. Wardens - the nights watch (they even have simmilar verse they say when joining). The wardens job is to keep the world safe from darkspawn - Nights Watch keeps it safe from the white walkers. Wildlings - Wilders on the other side of the wall. Blood Magic being bad. Dragons starting to show up again.

Just listing some  of the simmilarites.


The concept of such orders is hardly original, so latching onto that as a similarity is kind of a stretch imho. Also there's that the nightswatch, unlike the grey wardens, isn't completely, irredeemably evil.

#85
Guest_Roly Voly_*

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Vandicus wrote...
You can kill Oghren in Origins? :blink:


Yeah.  I captured it with FRAPS when I did it.  Uploading it now to Youtube, but it's taking forever... glad I'd already processed it over to .mp4 for compression or probably wouldn't be done til tomorrow.  Should be done in about 30 minutes.



Note the description. I cheated and used the pranks pack to crash his approval.

#86
Maclimes

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David Gaider wrote...

Aldaris951 wrote...
Will we find out about Duncan's fate in dragon age 3?


You found out about his fate in DAO.


People, this is LITERALLY the THIRD comment in the thread. RIGHT at the beginning, the LEAD WRITER of the ENTIRE Dragon Age franchise came out and answered the question, with no room for argument. WHY is this thread up to 4 pages?

#87
Rawgrim

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Lithuasil wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Ostagar - Castle BlackThe wall. Wardens - the nights watch (they even have simmilar verse they say when joining). The wardens job is to keep the world safe from darkspawn - Nights Watch keeps it safe from the white walkers. Wildlings - Wilders on the other side of the wall. Blood Magic being bad. Dragons starting to show up again.

Just listing some  of the simmilarites.


The concept of such orders is hardly original, so latching onto that as a similarity is kind of a stretch imho. Also there's that the nightswatch, unlike the grey wardens, isn't completely, irredeemably evil.


joining The Nights Watch and the Wardens can also keep you out of jail\\avoid execution.


Plus the devs said, in an article before DA:O came out, that they used the books for inspiration ;)

#88
Vandicus

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Rawgrim wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...



True. But we don`t know her endgame yet, so it might be a brilliant plan for all we know. Same goes for Morrigan. We don`t know everything she is about either. Seeing as the DA setting and story borrows heavily from George Martin`s books, I suspect Morrigan and Flemmeth might be a substitute for the Targaryans (dragons). Biding their time in the outskirts, trying to build poweran army. something like that. just a theory.


I don't actually recall seeing any resemblence between the two. DA has always seemed to me to be borrowing largely from history, while Martin's books had more original (and deeper) cultures. 

Did I miss the location of France, England and Scotland in Martin's books?

The story of the Targaryens does not seem to match Flemeth and Morrigan at all, besides the loose dragon connection. The Targaryens are about brilliant and mad leaders respectively who were once great and could be great again. Flemeth and Morrigan don't have a similar background, or similar viewpoints to any of the Targaryen characters discussed in the novels. 



Ostagar - Castle BlackThe wall. Wardens - the nights watch (they even have simmilar verse they say when joining). The wardens job is to keep the world safe from darkspawn - Nights Watch keeps it safe from the white walkers. Wildlings - Wilders on the other side of the wall. Blood Magic being bad. Dragons starting to show up again.

Just listing some  of the simmilarites.

Ohh I was thinking Flemmeth might be an old god. Trying to "take back what is hers". Something like that. Who knows.

The point is there are plenty simmilarities.


The Wardens are too generic an organization to be tied specifically to Martin's universe. Using them as a basis I could claim heavy influence from dozens if not hundreds of other fantasy novel settings.


Wildlings and Wilders are in no way similar culturally or in their interactions.

A god trying to take over Thedas is not sufficiently similar to the story of a house trying to reclaim its former glory to constitute an influence. 

The amount of alleged influence on it registers no higher than the influence of LoTR(which serves as a fairly good metric since its used as the baseline for nearly all fantasy novels, excepting Martin's universe and a few others). If two fantasy stories share less in common plotwise than they share with LoTR, they probably didn't heavily influence each other.


*EDIT

FYI, borrowing heavily from is not the same as inspiration. The game borrows heavily from LoTR. It does not borrow heavily from Martin's universe. 

Modifié par Vandicus, 22 septembre 2012 - 04:20 .


#89
Rawgrim

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Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...



True. But we don`t know her endgame yet, so it might be a brilliant plan for all we know. Same goes for Morrigan. We don`t know everything she is about either. Seeing as the DA setting and story borrows heavily from George Martin`s books, I suspect Morrigan and Flemmeth might be a substitute for the Targaryans (dragons). Biding their time in the outskirts, trying to build poweran army. something like that. just a theory.


I don't actually recall seeing any resemblence between the two. DA has always seemed to me to be borrowing largely from history, while Martin's books had more original (and deeper) cultures. 

Did I miss the location of France, England and Scotland in Martin's books?

The story of the Targaryens does not seem to match Flemeth and Morrigan at all, besides the loose dragon connection. The Targaryens are about brilliant and mad leaders respectively who were once great and could be great again. Flemeth and Morrigan don't have a similar background, or similar viewpoints to any of the Targaryen characters discussed in the novels. 



Ostagar - Castle BlackThe wall. Wardens - the nights watch (they even have simmilar verse they say when joining). The wardens job is to keep the world safe from darkspawn - Nights Watch keeps it safe from the white walkers. Wildlings - Wilders on the other side of the wall. Blood Magic being bad. Dragons starting to show up again.

Just listing some  of the simmilarites.

Ohh I was thinking Flemmeth might be an old god. Trying to "take back what is hers". Something like that. Who knows.

The point is there are plenty simmilarities.


The Wardens are too generic an organization to be tied specifically to Martin's universe. Using them as a basis I could claim heavy influence from dozens if not hundreds of other fantasy novel settings.


Wildlings and Wilders are in no way similar culturally or in their interactions.

A god trying to take over Thedas is not sufficiently similar to the story of a house trying to reclaim its former glory to constitute an influence. 

The amount of alleged influence on it registers no higher than the influence of LoTR(which serves as a fairly good metric since its used as the baseline for nearly all fantasy novels, excepting Martin's universe and a few others). If two fantasy stories share less in common plotwise than they share with LoTR, they probably didn't heavily influence each other.


*EDIT

FYI, borrowing heavily from is not the same as inspiration. The game borrows heavily from LoTR. It does not borrow heavily from Martin's universe. 



A wall protecting the nation from "barbarians" living on the other side of it. In one story they are called wildlings, in the other they are called Wilders. Yeah...not simmilar at all...

Its very very simmilar here and there, but the plot has been tweaked of course. So one can see things that are borrowed from, or where inspiration is directly taken from.

Its Martin`s books + the races from Tolkien.

#90
Rawgrim

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But we are of course waaaaaay of topic now :) I suggest we just end the discussion as it is. It was a good one, though.

#91
Silfren

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Lithuasil wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Ostagar - Castle BlackThe wall. Wardens - the nights watch (they even have simmilar verse they say when joining). The wardens job is to keep the world safe from darkspawn - Nights Watch keeps it safe from the white walkers. Wildlings - Wilders on the other side of the wall. Blood Magic being bad. Dragons starting to show up again.

Just listing some  of the simmilarites.


The concept of such orders is hardly original, so latching onto that as a similarity is kind of a stretch imho. Also there's that the nightswatch, unlike the grey wardens, isn't completely, irredeemably evil.


Wait, what?  The Grey Wardens are completely, irredeemably evil?  Say what?!

#92
CELL55

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bleetman wrote...

Duncan may be gone, but I've yet to hear anything concrete regarding the fate of his beard.


It roams the world, hunting down evildoers. It was last seen stuck to Default Male Hawke's face, thus giving him his powers.

#93
Han Shot First

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Duncan had his head seperated from his shoulders by a Darkspawn's axe.

He's dead, Jim.

#94
Orian Tabris

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"He's dead, Jim."

:blink: Maybe I should have looked at the last post, but... how was I to know??? ._.

Modifié par Orian Tabris, 22 septembre 2012 - 06:35 .


#95
Bfler

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Doesn't mean that he can't return as some kind of ghost like Katriel in Maric's fade vision.

Modifié par Bfler, 22 septembre 2012 - 09:13 .


#96
JamesStark

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 Duncan is confirmed dead I'm afraid.
I would like to see how King Alistair and Warden Loghain interact though. Loghain was last seen heading to Orlais in Awakenings after all.

CELL55 wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Duncan may be gone, but I've yet to hear anything concrete regarding the fate of his beard.


It roams the world, hunting down evildoers. It was last seen stuck to Default Male Hawke's face, thus giving him his powers.

 This is now canon.

Modifié par JamesStark, 22 septembre 2012 - 01:24 .