7 réponses à ce sujet

[After5CST]

 To my surprise, in BG1 (at least with BGT) I found the spell far better than the "useless" tag I had placed on it for the last ten years or so: at least for fighter/mages.

Lasts 10 rounds, long enough for many combats
Casting time 1, hard to interrupt 
(only one attack per round)
+4 to hit
1d3 damage on hit
+ STR bonus
+ 1d8 cold damage (no save)
-2 to enemy THAC0 (save vs. spell to negate) for 5 rounds

The best part?  The -2 is cumulative:  hit the guy for 3 consecutive rounds (and if he fails his save each time), it's a -6 THAC0.  Couple this with Shield  and you can quickly make your F/M very, very difficult to damage.

Early 1st level experimenting proved it a better weapon than anything I had in stock.  With a high STR F/M, it would average around 13 damage per hit, and the +4 to hit really mattters.

I can easily see using until L7, where Magic Missile damage ( 4d4 + 4 = 14 average ) makes it a more attractive damage spell.  Ghoul touch looks like a nice option at L3, but I haven't gotten to really work that through yet.

Of course, it's already been mentioned here, although not is as much detail.
http://social.biowar...index/4553095/6 

[Alesia_BH]

Agreed: It's definitely an underrated spell.

Since the thread you referenced, I built the melee sorceress I was toying with at the time. She used Chill Touch extensively in her BG1 SCS solo no reload and it worked beautifully.

I still haven't used Chill Touch to its full potential but I suspect its a bit like Polymorph Self. Polymorph Self was considered useless for many years, but now it is often seen as borderline overpowered. Pushed to its limits, Chill Touch is probably the same: closer to overpowered than useless.

Enjoy!

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 22 septembre 2012 - 04:00 .

[amanasleep]

Just to repeat and add: IMO the best part about Chill Touch in BG2 is that it is considered a normal weapon, so it goes through PfMW and the cold damage goes through stoneskins. Useful for disruption even in ToB, although it becomes suboptimal in most fights.

In BGT, it is useful even past L7, since you can cast Magic Missile and attack with Chill Touch.

Alesia, I am curious if you see even more potential than this. Do you really believe it could be OP? I don't think it is even in BGT. As I have said before, it's biggest liability is that it is not Sleep.

[Dr. Freud]

I have to admit that I've also not used it at all. I didn't remember that it actualy gives +4 to THACO, but I guess this benefit is negated by the fact that no one is proficient with fists so everyone gets -4 to hit from the get go. It's also really interesting that the THACO penalty for enemies is cumulative, which makes it really a monster of a spell. Also the added elemental damage can be really useful against wizards.

[Alesia_BH]

amanasleep wrote...
IMO the best part about Chill Touch in BG2 is that it is considered a normal weapon, so it goes through PfMW and the cold damage goes through stoneskins.

Alesia, I am curious if you see even more potential than this. Do you really believe it could be OP?

The use you mentioned is a big deal to my mind. Game breakingly overpowered? No. But getting that tactical utility out of a single L1 is arguably a bit much.

The THAC0 drain has the potential to be a difference maker as well in certain situations.

Chill Touch isn't an "I win" button by any stretch, but it has some intriguing tactical uses.

As I have said before, it's biggest liability is that it is not Sleep.

Or Blindness when facing higer level foes. It's true that there are other spells at L1 that you can get a lot of mileage out of. There are situations that Chill Touch is uniquely well suted for though.

 

Dr. Freud wrote...
I didn't remember that it actualy gives +4 to THACO, but I guess this benefit is negated by the fact that no one is proficient with fists so everyone gets -4 to hit from the get go.

That sounds reasonable, but it doesn't work that way: the penalty isn't applied. 

Setting aside Strength modifiers and such, a Level 1 Mage who has cast Chill Touch at the Candlekeep Inn will have a THAC0 of 16- the same as a Level 5 fighter.


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 23 septembre 2012 - 12:31 .

[Son of Imoen]

Thanks for an insightfull post. I did discover Ghoul Touch is more useful then I originally thought, but I always skipped on chill touch. It was the first to delete if I wanted to scribe a scroll but my 1st level page in my book was full. But it seems I'm wrong. Will definitely try it out if I play a Fighter/Mage again. Might be useful for my Blade as well, who is just now finishing SOA, but even at that level, it might come in useful in a slot beside my instant-death-due-to-save-penalties-at-high-levels-tweak chromatic orbs.

[Incantatar]

For single class mages it's useless, if you don't want to use exploits.
-Your ThAC0 will suck excluding the first levels. (Do want to stand in melee with 6hp?)
-1 APR for standing in front of a mage, who likely has some AC buffs isn't intelligent. He could target a summon or waste his cone spells instead.
-You could cast Sleep instead of Chill Touch on low level enemies

No it only makes sense for F/M or an engine exploiting game and Ghoul Touch would be superior in most instances here.

[Alesia_BH]

Incantatar wrote...

For single class mages it's useless, if you don't want to use exploits.

I wouldn't go that far: I have found it useful with single class mages without exploits involved. I'm specifically thinking of portions of my melee sorcerer's BG1 run.

At the same time, I do think a corrective statement is potentially helpful here. A predictable consequence of this thread is that players could think: "Chill Touch is powerful" and then run out and get themselves killed using it. Chill Touch is not an easy spell to use well which is what accounts for its long standing reputation for being "useless".

As with others spells, rather than classifying Chill Touch as "powerful" or "weak" and then proceeding from there, it makes more sense to focus on understanding what -exactly- it does and then put it to use when it may be helpful or enjoyable. Chill Touch is a spell that can work well in particular circumstances if you setup your character to take advantage of what it does.

-It creates a weapon which lasts for 1 Turn. 
-That weapon grants a +4 bonus to THAC0 and hits as unenchanted.
-It does 1d8 Cold Damage without a save and also allows a physical component which stacks Strength damage.
-Each hit forces an unmodified save to avoid a -2 THAC0 drain which lasts 5 rounds..

Can that be useful for an F/M? Sure. Can it be useful for a single class mage? Sure as well. In both cases, you'd need to pick your spots and set up the rest of your spell slot allocations to take advantage of it if you so desire. In BG1, I personally found it was a matter of doing the math. In, BGII, on the otherhand it was a matter of identifying times when the ability to bypass Stoneskins and ProMW would be helpful. In both cases, using Chill Touch effectively did require some thought and planning, but with due consideration it worked splendidly.

Anyhoo: experiment and enjoy everyone, but do be careful: touching stuff while wearing robes can get you in trouble.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 28 septembre 2012 - 05:10 .