65 réponses à ce sujet

[Druk-Qs]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

lolno

[NKKKK]

naughty99 wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

Not happening, what profit is there for that?

On the one hand, it can result in greatly extending the life of the game. For example, many people are still playing Skyrim nearly a year after release, making mods, sharing them with their friends, and there is an entire community built around reviewing mods and posting videos about mods. Due in part to this free promotion, the game has remained consistently among the top selling games on Steam since release.

And although you might see less interest among PC gamers for very small DLC item packs that add some weapons, etc., I think a vibrant modding community can certainly help to drive increased sales of DLC that adds new quest content or new gameplay features. There would be more people still playing the game by the time the DLC is released, and also DLC that adds gameplay features can provide new tools for mod authors to make something interesting that requires the DLC.

Don't try to put logic and communal work here son, it won't work.

[Merlex]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

Each platform has their advantages. This happens to be on of PCs.

[Melca36]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

And if PC users are willing to pay for a toolset, they should be able to. 

[iSignIn]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

I agree. PC players should also remove the majority of keys on their keyboard and then chew and swallow them. It's only fair.

[Parmida]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

Orly?
PC is the best for games imo 'cause it has lots more benefits than other platforms and it's more powerful.

[Jamesnew2]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

...You've got to be kidding right..

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

iSignIn wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

I agree. PC players should also remove the majority of keys on their keyboard and then chew and swallow them. It's only fair.

Mom! He's got more keys on his keyboard than my buttons on my controller! Not Fair! Rawwrrrr

[Icinix]

EA doesn't support or encourage modding.

But yes - modding used to be a big part of BioWares games - hell were it not for mods - Neverwinter Nights probably would have vanished into Oblivion.

[Atakuma]

Icinix wrote...

EA doesn't support or encourage modding.

But yes - modding used to be a big part of BioWares games - hell were it not for mods - Neverwinter Nights probably would have vanished into Oblivion.

No it didn't. Most of bioware's games had no mod support.

Modifié par Atakuma, 24 septembre 2012 - 09:45 .

[Jamesnew2]

Atakuma wrote...

Icinix wrote...

EA doesn't support or encourage modding.

But yes - modding used to be a big part of BioWares games - hell were it not for mods - Neverwinter Nights probably would have vanished into Oblivion.

No it didn't. Most of bioware's games had no mod support.

The older games did, I know Kotor did for a fact 

[Plaintiff]

DA2 didn't have a modding kit because it utilised third-party elements that they didn't have licensing rights for.

And when the majority of gamers are playing on console, there is little to no point in producing a product that most of their audience will not buy and cannot use.

Why should they care about extending the life of the game? They're not getting any money for it.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 24 septembre 2012 - 10:34 .

[Plaintiff]

Melca36 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

And if PC users are willing to pay for a toolset, they should be able to. 

I'm willing to bet that if consoles got exclusive DLC, there'd be some major PC-player ****ing up in here.

Nobody likes being left out.

[joshko]

Plaintiff wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

And if PC users are willing to pay for a toolset, they should be able to. 

I'm willing to bet that if consoles got exclusive DLC, there'd be some major PC-player ****ing up in here.

Nobody likes being left out.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Mods don't guarantee quality additions, and unless you have a large dedicated and active modding team hey don't change the game in any significant way.  DLCs on the other hand are quality products produced by the developers.

[Plaintiff]

joshko wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

And if PC users are willing to pay for a toolset, they should be able to. 

I'm willing to bet that if consoles got exclusive DLC, there'd be some major PC-player ****ing up in here.

Nobody likes being left out.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Mods don't guarantee quality additions, and unless you have a large dedicated and active modding team hey don't change the game in any significant way.  DLCs on the other hand are quality products produced by the developers.

The kind of product doesn't matter in the least. The point is that people don't like being left out generally.

How is the comparison faulty? A toolset doesn't count as 'quality DLC produced by developers'? Would Bioware not be selling a product that would be denied to a signficant part of its fanbase?

Obviously some mods are going to be crap, but that's not what I was talking about. Console players would enjoy the ability to create their own is what I meant. Console games like Little Big Planet, where the major draw is that you have the ability to create your own levels, have proven that.

But toolsets are not an effective use of time anyway. Only PC players can use mods, and the portion of people skilled enough to create mods in the first place is smaller still. Plus, as I said before, it's no skin off Bioware's back if the game only has a short life. They already got paid for it.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 24 septembre 2012 - 10:56 .

[joshko]

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...
snip

[/quote]
The kind of product doesn't matter in the least. The point is that people don't like being left out generally.

How is the comparison faulty? A toolset doesn't count as 'quality DLC produced by developers'? Would Bioware not be selling a product that would be denied to a signficant part of its fanbase?

Obviously some mods are going to be crap, but that's not what I was talking about. Console players would enjoy the ability to create their own is what I meant. Console games like Little Big Planet, where the major draw is that you have the ability to create your own levels, have proven that.

But toolsets are not an effective use of time anyway. Only PC players can use mods, and the portion of people skilled enough to create mods in the first place is smaller still. Plus, as I said before, it's no skin off Bioware's back if the game only has a short life. They already got paid for it.[/quote]

Well sure people don't like being left out. I am upset I can't play Red Dead Redemption because I don't own a console, but I don't go throw a tantrum over it.
I disagree, I think developers do want their games to have a long life and care very much that they do.
First it's their baby, their piece of art and they do want their customers to enjoy it. Many times over even.
Second a long life strengthens the fan base and the franchise, making sequels, prequels, and even parallel storylines in the universe to be potentially more profitable.

There is an argument that a toolket does count as a quality DLC to some degree. But ultimately it's what the toolkit can produce that people want. It's in this light that I argue that they cannot be compared to directly, and when you do you have to take into account all of the substandard mods that will come out of the toolkit.

[Plaintiff]

joshko wrote...
Well sure people don't like being left out. I am upset I can't play Red Dead Redemption because I don't own a console, but I don't go throw a tantrum over it.

Well nothing's stopping you from buying a console. This generation is very cheap now, while the high-end PCs required to run the latest games can cost thousands of dollars (at least they do where I am). And of course, the investment of time required to become a skilled modder is also a significant barrier.

I disagree, I think developers do want their games to have a long life and care very much that they do.
First it's their baby, their piece of art and they do want their customers to enjoy it. Many times over even.

That doesn't follow. If I made an awesome videogame, I wouldn't want people making fundamental alterations to it. When you mod a game, it is not the same game that it was before. It is now a different game. You have not extended the life of Dragon Age : Origins. You have turned it into something else.

Second a long life strengthens the fan base and the franchise, making sequels, prequels, and even parallel storylines in the universe to be potentially more profitable.

But a toolset only strengthens a minority section of the userbase, while DLC is available to everyone. So what should Bioware focus on?

There is an argument that a toolket does count as a quality DLC to some degree. But ultimately it's what the toolkit can produce that people want. It's in this light that I argue that they cannot be compared to directly, and when you do you have to take into account all of the substandard mods that will come out of the toolkit.

More people having access to a toolkit means more mods, which means more quality mods.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 24 septembre 2012 - 11:20 .

[Bfler]

I guess DAO was their last game with a toolset, because it was already produced before EA fully assimilated them.

[Montana]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

Wow, that has to be the worst argument ever.

On topic:
They're using the Frostbite engine so a toolkit seems unlikely since DICE owns Frostbite.
Now, DICE has been known to allow modding of previous BF titles, but it seems like they are more interested in selling this version than opening up the code for competitors.

Only time will tell, but I'm not holding my breath so to speak.

[Merlex]

Plaintiff wrote...

joshko wrote...
Well sure
people don't like being left out. I am upset I can't play Red Dead
Redemption because I don't own a console, but I don't go throw a tantrum
over it.

Well nothing's stopping you from buying a console.
This generation is very cheap now, while the high-end PCs required to
run the latest games can cost thousands of dollars (at least they do
where I am). And of course, the investment of time required to become a
skilled modder is also a significant barrier.

Wow so screw PC users. We should all just go and buy a console. And yes PCs cost a lot, mine cost me $3000. three years ago. I saved for 2 years for it. We pay that cost, to have higher capabilities. But some console users want to limit those gaming capabilities. I would have a very hard time using a console controller, with the arthritis in my hands. PC is it for me.

Plaintiff wrote...

I disagree, I think developers do want their games to have a long life and care very much that they do.
First it's their baby, their piece of art and they do want their customers to enjoy it. Many times over even.

That
doesn't follow. If I made an awesome videogame, I wouldn't want people
making fundamental alterations to it. When you mod a game, it is not the
same game that it was before. It is now a different game. You have not
extended the life of Dragon Age : Origins. You have turned it into
something else.

Well you might not, but i doubt all developers see that way. Case in point... Skyrim. Mods has kept me playing NWN and NWN2 all of these years. Mods (as limited as they are) are the only reason i still play DA2. And that has kept my interest in the franchise.

Plaintiff wrote...
But a toolset only strengthens a minority section of the userbase, while
DLC is available to everyone. So what should Bioware focus on?

Yeah well controller support isn't available to everyone, so maybe they should axe that too? That's the same bs logic i heard, about why they took tactic slots over 20, away in one of the patches. Again pc users pay what they do for their computers, because they have greater capabilities. But you want to turn them into super expensive consoles.

I don't hate consoles, i just can't use them. I am sorry that console users can't mod single person games, i think that sucks. But i've done my part in support of the console industry. I bought both my children PS3s. My son the PS, PS2, XBOX 360,  P2P, and one those other hand held gaming consoles (can't remember it's name). I've bought a couple hundred games for these platforms over the years, and now i just want something for my platform.

Modifié par Merlex, 25 septembre 2012 - 12:36 .

[naughty99]

Plaintiff wrote...

joshko wrote...
Well sure people don't like being left out. I am upset I can't play Red Dead Redemption because I don't own a console, but I don't go throw a tantrum over it.

Well nothing's stopping you from buying a console. This generation is very cheap now, while the high-end PCs required to run the latest games can cost thousands of dollars (at least they do where I am).

In the US a decent desktop that can run all the recent games at 1920x1080 resolution is around $500-600. And there are plenty of laptops that can do the same under $1k. 

If you don't mind gaming at a lower resolution, there are even cheaper options.

Plaintiff wrote...
And of course, the investment of time required to become a skilled modder is also a significant barrier.

It really depends on the toolkit and what you want to do. You can learn how to make a dungeon for Legend of Grimrock in about five minutes. If you want to make a simple Skyrim mod that adds a small dungeon, or tweaks some of the game settings, for example, you can learn in a few hours. If you want to make an ambitious quest with lots of new voiced dialogue, or a huge new area to explore, of course that will take a lot more time, but it's fun to make and share mods with your friends.

And if Bioware sets up a way to publish your mods on Origin, from the player's perspective, it can become a very simple one-click process to install new mods.

A vibrant modding community can greatly extend the life of a game, so people are still playing the game months and years after release and as a result, more likely to buy interesting new DLC content or a sequel.

[Realmzmaster]

Tony77A wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

Wow, that has to be the worst argument ever.

On topic:
They're using the Frostbite engine so a toolkit seems unlikely since DICE owns Frostbite.
Now, DICE has been known to allow modding of previous BF titles, but it seems like they are more interested in selling this version than opening up the code for competitors.

Only time will tell, but I'm not holding my breath so to speak.

EA owns DICE. DICE is one of EA's subsideries. Bioware will be modifying the Frostbite 2 engine. The question is whether third party software tools will be used. If third party tools are used then the possibility of a toolset is remote. If Bioware uses all in house tools then a toolset is quite possible.

The other porblem is whether the data will be file based. File based is easier for modders to use. NWN's data was file based. DAO's was not. NWN toolset was built entirely in house and was file based.

[Realmzmaster]

naughty99 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

joshko wrote...
Well sure people don't like being left out. I am upset I can't play Red Dead Redemption because I don't own a console, but I don't go throw a tantrum over it.

Well nothing's stopping you from buying a console. This generation is very cheap now, while the high-end PCs required to run the latest games can cost thousands of dollars (at least they do where I am).

In the US a decent desktop that can run all the recent games at 1920x1080 resolution is around $500-600. And there are plenty of laptops that can do the same under $1k. 

If you don't mind gaming at a lower resolution, there are even cheaper options.

Plaintiff wrote...
And of course, the investment of time required to become a skilled modder is also a significant barrier.

It really depends on the toolkit and what you want to do. You can learn how to make a dungeon for Legend of Grimrock in about five minutes. If you want to make a simple Skyrim mod that adds a small dungeon, or tweaks some of the game settings, for example, you can learn in a few hours. If you want to make an ambitious quest with lots of new voiced dialogue, or a huge new area to explore, of course that will take a lot more time, but it's fun to make and share mods with your friends.

And if Bioware sets up a way to publish your mods on Origin, from the player's perspective, it can become a very simple one-click process to install new mods.

A vibrant modding community can greatly extend the life of a game, so people are still playing the game months and years after release and as a result, more likely to buy interesting new DLC content or a sequel.

What you are saying is quite correct on the PC side not the console side. The point is that consoles make up the largest part of the sales. Now the route that Bethesda took could be used in that the consoles get DLC before the PC users, since the PC users have the construction set.

[Hrungr]

Yeah, I remember BW said that the 3rd party tools used to created DA 2 is what prevented them from releasing a Toolset. I'm hoping they can swing something with DICE in order to get a toolset out for 4, but... the odds on that seem slim indeed.

Even beyond the game fixes, the custom gear and appearances, mods like Improved Atmosphere, HR Textures and DA Redesigned just made a good game that much better.