65 réponses à ce sujet

[Anomaly-]

I have long maintained that the DA:O toolset was a huge reason for my continued interest in that game, and the absence of an equivalent for DA2 was a large reason for my disinterest in it. Sadly, I am not hopeful we will see a toolset for DA3.

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

..What? I believe someone used the word 'absurd'. That sounds about right.

Plaintiff wrote...
Why should they care about extending the life of the game? They're not getting any money for it.

If not for the DA:O toolset, I likely wouldn't have remained interested long enough to purchase those Origins DLCs. Similarly, if they had released a toolset for DA2, I might have been able to make the game enjoyable enough for me to be interested in DLC for that game.

Plaintiff wrote...
I'm willing to bet that if consoles got exclusive DLC, there'd be some major PC-player ****ing up in here.

Nobody likes being left out.

The main difference being, it's hard to justify a reason for platform exclusive DLC. On the other hand, PC exclusive modding is easy to understand when you hear all about the difficulties Bethesda - who have been trying to get mods on consoles for some time - have encountered. PCs are more powerful, and console manufacturers are very apprehensive about allowing the ability to download files that can essentially corrupt their product, or the game.

Plaintiff wrote...

joshko wrote...
Well sure people don't like being left out. I am upset I can't play Red Dead Redemption because I don't own a console, but I don't go throw a tantrum over it.

Well nothing's stopping you from buying a console.

Likewise, nothing is stopping someone from buying a decent PC.

This generation is very cheap now, while the high-end PCs required to run the latest games can cost thousands of dollars (at least they do where I am).

I've always had difficulty understanding this argument. I can honestly say that the investment in my PCs over the years has saved me money over buying consoles. Sure, you can pay a couple thousand for a top of the line machine, but like you said, this generation is much cheaper and that holds for PCs as well. You can buy a mid-range PC for well south of a thousand, and it will still be much more powerful than the current generation of consoles. Besides, don't the vast majority of people have computers at home by now, anyway? It's not a big jump to add decent gaming capability.

And of course, the investment of time required to become a skilled modder is also a significant barrier.

Depending on what you want to make, perhaps. But the investment of time to enjoy those mods is very small.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:40 .

[Icinix]

Jamesnew2 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Icinix wrote...

EA doesn't support or encourage modding.

But yes - modding used to be a big part of BioWares games - hell were it not for mods - Neverwinter Nights probably would have vanished into Oblivion.

No it didn't. Most of bioware's games had no mod support.

The older games did, I know Kotor did for a fact 

Yeah, even if mod tools weren't released as such - it was easy enough to mod the game and even someone with no experience could instally their own mods in an overide folder - now - its a much more complicated process and frowned upon quite heavily.

[Mr Fixit]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

Malice is strong in this one.

[Sir Caradoc]

This would be lovely no doubt. Its one of the reasons why DAO is considered a better game. It increased game's life span for many people. Lots of nice tweaks & fixes that should have been in the game (like breakable locks) were released. There were lots nice content as well..tons of weapon, armor and clothings, even new quests. However one of the best mod was this Ser Gilmore companion mod. It really added a lot to game.

That being said I'm afraid that current Bioware won't do cool stuff like that for several reasons:

1) No direct profit compared to the time and effort it takes to put such toolset together.
2) They would have to remove some of the licenced third party software components to release such toolset which again takes time and effort.
3) if user mods were available it would force them to put more effort into dlcs instead of just releasing rip off cosmetic downloadable content for 10 $ or so.
4) Likely not part of 'EA company policy' as it would lessen the control of their product to end users which is a frightening thought for many "suits".
5) If users were able to fix bugs, it would show lack of patching in a very bad light.
6) Because consoles don't allow modding, pc users can't have that either.

Bioware used to be a cool dev. They have indeed released modding tools in the past. Orgins was the last game with mod tools and it was the last game made by independent bioware. After EA took full control not much talking about modding ever since. Its no conspiracy really, just corporate thinking. Why should they do something like that? They don't see any point.

Fortunately there are still devs who really support modding and sell great number of their games. Benthesa, CD-project red, Valve, 2k games, obsidian entertaiment to name a few.

[Jamesnew2]

Sir Caradoc wrote...
Fortunately there are still devs who really support modding and sell great number of their games. Benthesa, CD-project red, Valve, 2k games, obsidian entertaiment to name a few.

hopefully they can see it as a way of catching up with their competitors

[joshko]

Jamesnew2 wrote...

Sir Caradoc wrote...
Fortunately there are still devs who really support modding and sell great number of their games. Benthesa, CD-project red, Valve, 2k games, obsidian entertaiment to name a few.

hopefully they can see it as a way of catching up with their competitors

I doubt it will in the near future, but in the long run the mod friendly companies will most probably come out on top, maybe not in quick sales number spurts. But in the life span of the game, a longer period of time the game sells, in brand popularity, and costumer loyalty.

[Jamesnew2]

joshko wrote...

Jamesnew2 wrote...

Sir Caradoc wrote...
Fortunately there are still devs who really support modding and sell great number of their games. Benthesa, CD-project red, Valve, 2k games, obsidian entertaiment to name a few.

hopefully they can see it as a way of catching up with their competitors

I doubt it will in the near future, but in the long run the mod friendly companies will most probably come out on top, maybe not in quick sales number spurts. But in the life span of the game, a longer period of time the game sells, in brand popularity, and costumer loyalty.

Valve seems a good example of that tbh

[Relshar]

You want a game that has modding tools and a good community then play Skyrim, its what I am doing. I bought it on release and clocked in over 600 hours so far. Still finding things in the game that I have missed.
DA2 I played once and took it off my pc in disgust. I do not have any faith in BioWare to being able to make a decent game anymore after that and ME3.

[Jamesnew2]

Relshar wrote...

You want a game that has modding tools and a good community then play Skyrim, its what I am doing. I bought it on release and clocked in over 600 hours so far. Still finding things in the game that I have missed.
DA2 I played once and took it off my pc in disgust. I do not have any faith in BioWare to being able to make a decent game anymore after that and ME3.

This really is their last chance, tho play some of the older games..

[Yankee23]

Melca36 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

And if PC users are willing to pay for a toolset, they should be able to. 

I'd pay for it and all I really ever did was tinker in the DAO toolset for fun. Hell, I'd be more than happy to chip in an buy the toolset for a few of the community members who put out some of my favorite DAO mods to make sure they could continue modding in DA3.

Hehe...image the sh!tstorm on the boards if they actually did charge for it!

[EricHVela]

As far as I can tell, EA is still a ruthless environment among their various studios. A toolset would be very low on the priority in such a situation.

It would be nice, but I highly doubt that's happening.

Oh. And limiting PC players due to console limitations is no better than limiting console due to PC limitations. That's like saying PC Achievements don't count towards gamer scores on the user's console profile because they're easily hacked on PC so no platform gets to have a gamer score for that game.

When we cater to the lowest common denominator, we end up with the lowest common denominator instead of games that are tailored to the advantages of their respective platforms.

In the past, it seemed to work well to design a game for a specific platform and let another studio redevelop the game for other platforms. Nowadays, they try to develop for all platforms at once, requiring them to keep in mind all of the limitations of all of them.

I'm willing to wait for a PC version that works more like a PC game and less like a port. With the exception of one game, the XBox games that interested me eventually came out on PC, most with changes that made it better-suited for PC features.

When BWE only had to contend with themselves as competition for resources, things seemed different back then. Now that they likely have to compete against the other EA studios, things are definitely different. (What goes on behind-the-scenes often translates into the end-result. Troubled productions usually have poor-quality releases in all entertainment mediums.)

[CaptainBlackGold]

There might be many, legitimate reasons why Bioware cannot release a toolset for DA3 - I can accept that.

However, there are also many design decisions that go into a game that could be made modder friendly, if they so chose. Locking certain file formats so that modders cannot decipher them is less acceptable.

Someone above mentioned KOTOR: great example. Give us an override folder and file formats that can be changed. Let us install armor, weapon and other mods to make the game look and play like we want, rather than what the developers insist.

And as Yankee above said, if they do need to charge for a toolset, I'd pony up some cash to help my favorite modders buy the program.

But my main concern is the developers just not making it possible for people to mod. I do not pretend to know what goes on in people's minds, but sometimes I get a feeling that some developers are so impressed with their "artistic integrity," they do not like the very idea of some amateur messing with their baby - and do everything in their power to prevent anyone from doing so.

I am hoping that Bioware does not fall into this category; that if possible, even if they cannot give us a proper toolset, at least they will keep a kind thought towards those of us who like to mod our games and not put unnecessary barriers in our way.

[Melca36]

Yankee23 wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

If the console players can't mod then the PC players should't get to either. It's only fair.

And if PC users are willing to pay for a toolset, they should be able to. 

I'd pay for it and all I really ever did was tinker in the DAO toolset for fun. Hell, I'd be more than happy to chip in an buy the toolset for a few of the community members who put out some of my favorite DAO mods to make sure they could continue modding in DA3.

Hehe...image the sh!tstorm on the boards if they actually did charge for it!

Oh yeah people would whine about it.  I expect whining for every bit of info that comes out about the game.


I just ordered a new gaming computer so I plan to tinker with the old toolset.

[DahliaLynn]

Thanks to the toolset, I've learned a ton about game design, teamwork, customer support, as well as determined that Cinematic Design is the career I wish to pursue.

Having access to such tools can truly bring out a person's creative potential, as well as provide a means to show developers what individuals can accomplish with their tools.

Obviously this shouldn't be the main reason for developing a toolset, but aside from all the aforementioned benefits, I thought this would be a nice added tidbit of info. After all, developers are constantly searching for talent- what better way than to see what their community creates with their own tools?

[Jamesnew2]

On a side note, any modders here that have made mods in the past for DA:O / Kotor, thank you very much I probably used them :L

[Saerwen]

I too would pay for "Toolset Dlc". And in know way did having a toolset keep me from buying any off the DLC content from Dragon Age Origins, I bought it all, even the crappy DLC. I wholeheartedly believe this was because I was still interested in the game months after release because of the toolset and all of the mods.

Bioware/EA shot themselves in the foot when they held back the toolset "update" for DA2. The modding community could have made new levels, fixed the bugs, added so much more to what could have been an epic game. People would have still been interested in the game, possibly would have bought copies for thier pc's (as I have seen ppl do for origins) and they could have put out more paid for DLC.... but alas that time has past.