143 réponses à ce sujet

[cindercatz]

This is something I always notice, but I can live with if it means something else more important gets fixed or improved first. It's an oddity, not an annoyance. I've suggested weapons be sheathed a few times, but only if cost and time allow for it.

In a perfect game, I've got lots of armor/look/stat customization (every piece with a unique look to each character, with stats differences between the piece types), lots of weapon type variety (so whole different classes of weapon, different kinds of swords and axes and daggers and bows and staffs and spears, etc.) with unique animation sets per weapon type (and a chosen weapon specialization or two per character, whichever), and then all weapons are sheathed or stocked.

I don't really care if I have a thousand longswords or shortbows, just as long as there is an upgrading feature throughout the game and the animation is strong. Even better is a custom weapon building mechanic, with signature weapons that I could upgrade or switch out piece for piece. If I do have thirty longswords, though, which is cool, I have zero problem with them basically fitting a couple of different sheaths and stocks in terms of their shape. If you change out the skin on the sword (or it's parts if we're crafting) and you have a unique sheath skin for each type of sword as well, then that's beautiful.

If I were to design them myself, I'd have each character's specific kind of weapon stocked or strapped to all of that character's armor variants on a particular slot, and design every piece of that character's armor to accept the different weapon sheaths, etc. in the same slot (or two in the case of dual wielders or weapon switching). I wouldn't worry about having wildly varying base models for weapons within the same type, since I like my blades in particular to be more realistic anyway. So thinner, more defined parameters for weapons is a good thing for me. Bows and crossbows, and different kinds of cicles and staves, can have their own flare as well, so long as they fit their stock. I don't really prefer giant floating weapons of any type.

So if I have an Inquisitor or a companion who specializes in daggers, maybe that character always attaches the equipped weapon and sheath to his/her upper thigh, and the other to his/her waist. Another character that specializes in throwing knives has them bandoliered or embroidered in one area, and pulls the other from an armstrapped sheath. My staff fighting monk carries his staff stocked to his back left shoulder, my tomahawk specialist always carries one on each hip, etc. Something unique for each weapon type that their specialist's armor variants are all designed to accept.

This is all hypothetical to it being at reasonable cost, though. I don't want to give up character specific variant armor design or a weapon type set for this, but it would add to immersion and 'wow' factor. I certainly wouldn't sacrifice story branching or combat mechanics or party banter, whatever else is higher on the priority list, depending on where the budget came from.

However, I don't mind giving up heavy basic weapon shape variation, since I was never a huge fan of that, anyway. I like my swords to look like wieldable swords and to match their animations, my daggers to look like sharp blades rather than wide costume props, etc. So if that's the cost we're talking about, I'd go for it, just remember to have a few fitting sheaths and stocks to go with any differently shaped weapons, and enough different skins to account for tiering and custom weapon crafting (always like custom weapons, like that more and more) on those basic few models.

[The Hierophant]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

Regarding the stylistic design of sheaths, I would say Skyrim is a great example of a lot of cosmetic variety. Lots of patterns, colors and dimension differences. It definitely can be done, it just has to be considered valuable enough. I think Skyrim does a good job with the placement of the weapons as well. All 1h swords are sheathed on the left hip. All 1h axes and maces are kept on the right hip in a leather loop. Skyrim's 2h weapons are still a bit wonky though. I dislike the look of the giant 2h axes and hammers looking glued to my back.

It's very possible to mod in sheathes for 2h swords or some other attachment device for axes/hammers.

Out of curiosity, do you have any ideas about what would work for the hammers/axes? Two loops along the haft or something?

The only thing i can think of is an over the shoulder strap built into the pummel or a custom sheath like below which is carried over the shoulder...

[TheRealJayDee]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I see this topic come up a lot though, which I do find surprising.  In my "gaming mind" (i.e. Not QA focus) it's never really been something that has ever bothered me.  Is it just something that people find bothersome and once they notice it they can't never "unnotice" it?

It would improve the atmosphere of the game if we had some kind of a not completely weird looking method of carrying weapons. It's small things like this that can make a game more immersive.

As others have said: also bowstrings.

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 22 septembre 2012 - 09:14 .

[Nomen Mendax]

Sejborg wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Although I was just thinking that sheaths would also place restrictions on the types of designs for weapons as well...

So sheaths would not allow you to make ugly weird looking cartoon swords?

One more reason to hope for sheaths! 

I have to agree with you on this, I really didn't like the design on a lot of the DA2 weapons.  And it did bother me that Hawke was jogging along with a 7' tall 50lb sword floating on her back.

[MorningBird]

TheRealJayDee wrote...
It would improve the atmosphere of the game if we had some kind of a not completely weird looking method of carrying weapons. It's small things like this that can make a game more immersive.

This...

I understand it would take addition time and resources, but once it's done it's done and you can have a workable standard set for future installments... assuming of course there will be future installments (I certainly hope so!)

Obviously I have no idea what amount of work would go into something like this, but I would definitely appreciate any effort brought forward to change the way equiped weapons are currently stored. XD

Not a deal breaker, for sure, but as JayDee said, it bring something nice to the table.

[RedWulfi]

Something that always bugged me...
In DA2 as a rogue. One dagger would stick out more than the other. The running animation made it look... off.

[Lithuasil]

For polearms, and large twohanded axes/hammers - you could always just wear those in the hand as a walking aide, or over the shoulder. In the left hand possibly, so the pc has a hand free to murderknife or whatever action seems appropriate.

[iSignIn]

Lithuasil wrote...

For polearms, and large twohanded axes/hammers - you could always just wear those in the hand as a walking aide, or over the shoulder.

http://tvtropes.org/...rossTheShoulder

"You should know not to mess with a dude who rests his sword this awesomely."

[MorningBird]

iSignIn wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

For polearms, and large twohanded axes/hammers - you could always just wear those in the hand as a walking aide, or over the shoulder.

http://tvtropes.org/...rossTheShoulder

"You should know not to mess with a dude who rests his sword this awesomely."

I am okay with this for the mage staff as well.

[Lithuasil]

iSignIn wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

For polearms, and large twohanded axes/hammers - you could always just wear those in the hand as a walking aide, or over the shoulder.

http://tvtropes.org/...rossTheShoulder

"You should know not to mess with a dude who rests his sword this awesomely."

Pretty much, except with axes/hammers worn that way, the chances of selfharm are much slimmer.

Also, Shields - keep them on the arm please, since animating a proper sling to stash those would probably be way too much work.

[Cathrandir]

 yes sheathed weapon would be a welcome change

[PsychoBlonde]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Although I was just thinking that sheaths would also place restrictions on the types of designs for weapons as well...

Good.  Maybe they'll actually look like weapons then.

Personally, I'd rather people  carried staves, bows, and two-handers either in their hands or over their shoulder, so that would solve it for any but one-handed weapons and shields.  

Couldn't this be done by creating a distinct object--a "weapon mount" and a "shield mount" that gets glued on the armor, and sheathing basically glues the weapon model to that object?  It wouldn't have to be a full sheath, a hanger or baldric would work as well.  You'd still have to do a certain amount of work up front to get this functioning, but after that doing new armors would simply be a matter of deciding where the mount would go and pasting it on like a decal.

Or I could be totally off base, it just seems that since you're doing piecemeal armor anyway, some kind of decal of this sort would work well enough.

Also, if you don't design a bunch of ludicrously oversized "daggers", you could just glue these to people's wrists.

OR . . . you could design the individual armor suits with several built-in sheaths as decoration and just paste the weapon hilt onto the sheath at end-of-combat. 

I don't truly MIND people sticking weapons to their backs, it's when they stick it to the air 6" from their back that I start twitching.  Especially when it's long enough that their feet clip through it when they run.

If Gothic could solve this problem 10 years ago I have faith that you guys can figure out an at least decent-looking way to do it now

[Maytrows]

How about a rig of some sort that still shows the weapon so you can see the difference and still feel like they are attached to the person in a realistic manner. Something like an open sheeth.

[Steppenwolf]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Although I was just thinking that sheaths would also place restrictions on the types of designs for weapons as well...

I honestly hope you add sheaths just to accomplish this. The weapons got ridiculous in DA2(not that were much less ridiculous in some cases in DAO). Longswords as large as greatswords. Greatswords as large as Final Fantasy swords. I would take simpler, more realistic and elegant designs over 'The Empress' Point' any day.


If sheaths were in. they would have no impact on the size of the weapon.  I'm more meaning you would have restrictions on the way the blades looked.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 23 septembre 2012 - 03:31 .

[filetemo]

Allan Schumacher wrote...




Although I was just thinking that sheaths would also place restrictions on the types of designs for weapons as well...

which is a good thing because massive 2 handed swords the size of a surf table can't be sheathed on the hip

[filetemo]

ninja'd by basilkarlo

[snackrat]

If they're storing them on the back, I'd support sheathed weapons. However hip-stored longswords look weird as the sheath sticks out frie behind them even when the weapon is drawn.

[Conquerthecity]

 God, I hate the floating weapons. So much that it actually effects my immersion into the game. I'm sitting there thinking: How is that weapon attached there? Magic? Magnets? Bubblegum? 

PLEASE GIVE US SCABARDS AND SHEATHES. 

[TEWR]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The tricky thing about this is that, should sheaths/scabbards be located in different locations, is that animations and custom rigs will then need to be created for each set of armor that differs from others.  This starts to actually become pretty expensive, and I'm curious if it'd really be worth the gain.

I see this topic come up a lot though, which I do find surprising.  In my "gaming mind" (i.e. Not QA focus) it's never really been something that has ever bothered me. 

While I'd enjoy seeing sheaths/scabbards, I doubt it would be possible in a game like DA. That said, I would not be against better placement of unequipped weapons, if sheaths/scabbards are not possible. To echo a suggestion I have made only a few times in the past....

Like for instance, the following:

1) Swords, axes, maces are placed on the hip of the person in question at all times. Given that Bioware is creating custom models for the companions, this shouldn't be much of an issue I think -- unless your (Bioware
s) very briefly talked about armor customization revamp would impede this. If not, I recommend looking at how FFXII handled some of their weaponry that had different designs. 

Daggers could also go on both sides of the hips, and then be pulled out by the character in question.

2) Staves should be carried around at all times, though in more of a leisurely walking sort of pace until combat begins. Perhaps as walking sticks even.

3) Shields should remain equipped on the character's arm.

4) Mauls and Battleaxes could be carried across the back of the neck with the character's arms over the grip area.

5) Bows can remain on the back of the character, though I'd prefer them to not be so floaty. Alternatively, have the character carry them around at all times in their hands.

And greatswords... well... if we went with #1, that'd probably present a clipping issue with the sword going into the dirt. #2 would be very silly-looking if we tried to get the character to carry them around all the time in a not-so-awkward position.

And #4 might be jarring for people because then it runs the risk of "Why aren't they cutting themselves if the arms are draped over the blade, much less their head/neck is up against it?"

This isn't to say #4 can't be done at all, as we see in this popular trope.

But if that trope isn't possible, for greatswords, maybe 5 is best. Preferably not as floaty, as well. It'd still irritate me on how someone can lift something so bulky over their heads without cutting their head off and with one arm no less, but meh... until I can think of a better alternative I can live with it.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Is it just something that people find bothersome and once they notice it they can't never "unnotice" it?

I think it has to do more with how it seems really risky to try and lift a sword, dagger, greatsword, maul, or battleaxe over your head with just one arm -- not to mention how unwieldy doing such things are in regards to the heavier weapons.

Weight isn't the issue, but the sheer bulk of the item makes it require two hands. It also really didn't seem possible for Meredith's whooshy sheathing of her sword to be all... well... defiant of the skeletal system's restrictions, especially with... well... a longsword in hand.

So seeing people reach over their heads to grab something as dangerous and unwieldy is... off-putting, for want of a better word.

That's my problem with it anyway, aside from the floatiness of the weapons on the back of the characters.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Although I was just thinking that sheaths would also place restrictions on the types of designs for weapons as well...

Easily fixable. Create a standard sheath/scabbard that morphs the weapon to fit inside and when unsheathed it goes back to its original design.

And when I say easily fixable, it should go without saying that I mean in theory. In practice, I have no clue. But if it can be done, given the limitations, cost of creating various sheaths for various models, and the notion of "Time better spent" I could accept a morphing scabbard thing, with or without enchantment as a reason for it being so.

IIRC, SO:TtEoT did this in regards to Fayt Leingod, Albel Nox, Adray Lasbard, and... Roger Huxley and Nel Zelpher I think. I'm not sure. It's been a while since I played that game.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 septembre 2012 - 03:42 .

[TEWR]

iSignIn wrote...

http://tvtropes.org/...rossTheShoulder

"You should know not to mess with a dude who rests his sword this awesomely."

Ah, it seems I wasn't the only person to think of this. Good.

[Icinix]

Not to concerned about sheathing, but certainly the floating weapons bothered me no end....but not as much as some of the ridiculous anime-esque weapons.

Minor clipping and sticking the weapons right to the back would be better than keeping them hovering away from the character.