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[peddroelm]

EDIT 2

With the latest buffs to Javelin and Disruptor // Phasic ammo vs Shields this got even better ...
ON a GI with Javelin X sticky grenade (from cloak with scope on) will do

1545.8 * 1.35 * 0.25 * 4 = 2086.83 (+chance of TB on explosion with disruptor IV)

and

11545.8 * 1.35 * 0.15 * 10 = 3130.245 !!! (with phasic ammo III)  ( more than the sticly explosion vs shields//barriers)

vs shields & barriers
EDIT2


Sticky Grenades apply ammo consumable damage and effects on hit based on active weapon ..

The ammo damage inflicted is % of currently active weapon ..   

(% of 20.1 GPSMG X) is negligible)
(% of 1610.125  (Javelin X with cloak might be significant)

ATTENTION - FIRING STICKY GRENADES WHEN THE ACTIVE WEAPON IS A SNIPER RIFLE WILL CAUSE THE AMMO_DAMAGE (which is calculated off weapon base damage to receive the HIP FIRE PENALTY) ... (always use the scope for those sticky grenades  when using a powerfull 1 shot SR   )

Tech vulnerability WILL NOT affect sticky grenade explosion damage .. It will however affect combo damage set up and detonated by the sticky grenade (tech burst//Fire explosion) ...

Tests

Sticky grenade disruptor ammo II (10%)

javelin X (((1288.10 - 1030.50) / 9) * (3 - 1)) + 1030.50 = 1087.74444
GPSMG X

HI

Tests vs Platinum atlas Shields

Damage Received: 3.000000 // 20.1 * 0.1 = 2.01 (GPSMG active)
Damage Received: 1800.000000 //sticky impact vs shield (no cloak)
Damage Received: 109.000000 // 1087.74444 * 0.1 = 108.774444 Javelin III zoomed in
Damage Received: 1800.000000 //sticky
Damage Received: 1167.000000 // TB TB (vs shield platinum 6+1) ??
Damage Received: 55.000000 //javelin hip fire penalty 1087.74444 * 0.5 * 0.1 = 54.387222
Damage Received: 1800.000000 //sticky
Damage Received: 1167.000000 //TB (vs shield platinum 6+1) ??
Damage Received: 3.000000 // 20.1 * 0.1 = 2.01
Damage Received: 1800.000000 // sticky


Krysae X (548 base damage; 75% out of scope penalty ) Vs armor With Warp ammo III (35% ammo damage ; 50% armor weakening)

Damage Received: 2700.000000 // sticky vs armor (no cloak)
Damage Received: 181.617188 // (50 * (1 - 0.65) * (1 - 0.5)) + 172.867188 = 181.617188
Damage Received: 181.617188 //(50 * (1 - 0.65) * (1 - 0.5)) + 172.867188 = 181.617188
Damage Received: 172.867188 // harrier with AP mod
Damage Received: 143.849609 // 548 * 0.35 * 0.75 = 143.85
Damage Received: 2700.000000
Damage Received: 181.617188 //(50 * (1 - 0.65) * (1 - 0.5)) + 172.867188 = 181.617188
Damage Received: 191.800781 // 548 * 0.35 = 191.8
Damage Received: 2700.000000
Damage Received: 172.867188 // harrier with AP mod
Damage Received: 172.867188 // harrier with AP mod
Damage Received: 143.849609 548 * 0.35 * 0.75 = 143.85
Damage Received: 181.617188
Damage Received: 2700.000000
Damage Received: 191.800781 // 548 * 0.35 = 191.8
Damage Received: 181.617188
Damage Received: 2700.000000
Damage Received: 172.867188 // harrier with AP mod
Damage Received: 172.867188 // harrier with AP mod
Damage Received: 172.867188 // harrier with AP mod
Damage Received: 191.800781 // 548 * 0.35 = 191.8
Damage Received: 181.617188
Damage Received: 2700.000000
Damage Received: 181.617188
Damage Received: 191.800781 // 548 * 0.35 = 191.8
Damage Received: 181.617188
Damage Received: 2700.000000
Damage Received: 191.800781 // 548 * 0.35 = 191.8
Damage Received: 2700.000000
Damage Received: 181.617188
Damage Received: 191.800781 // 548 * 0.35 = 191.8
Damage Received: 2700.000000
Damage Received: 172.867188 // harrier with AP mod
Damage Received: 191.800781 // 548 * 0.35 = 191.8
Damage Received: 181.617188
Damage Received: 2700.000000
Damage Received: 181.617188
Damage Received: 181.617188
Damage Received: 191.800781 // 548 * 0.35 = 191.8
Damage Received: 2700.000000
Damage Received: 172.867188 // harrier with AP mod
Damage Received: 191.800781
Damage Received: 2700.000000


Harrier (second player ) will benefit from the 50% armor weakening effect of warp ammo III applied by the player firing sticky grenades ...


EDIT 1 .. 7 sticky chained with Valiant II  - silver Prime  . Disruptor ammo II ... Valiant has very high chance to apply disruptor  effect .. 5 of them detonated TB ... 

IF Sticky primes TB from  disruptor ammo - it will also detonate it ....

7 sticky in a row (5 of them detonated TB)

Damage 52.000000 //  disruptor ammo damage vs shields with SR cloak bonus
Damage 2610.000000 // cloaked sticky damage vs shield
Damage 788.000000 // TB silver 6+1   100 * 1.75 * 2.25 * 2 = 787.5

Damage 52.000000
Damage 1890.000000 // TC bonus ran off   sticky grenade damage vs shields

Damage 41.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 // TB silver 6+1   100 * 1.75 * 2.25 * 2 = 787.5

Damage 41.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 //TB silver 6+1   100 * 1.75 * 2.25 * 2 = 787.5

Damage 41.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 //TB silver 6+1   100 * 1.75 * 2.25 * 2 = 787.5

Damage 41.000000 // distuptor II ammo vs shields (valiant II in scope)
Damage 1890.000000 // sticky damage vs shield

Damage 41.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 // TB silver 6+1   100 * 1.75 * 2.25 * 2 = 787.5

Basically you can get "free" tech bursts when using disruptor ammo with sticky grenades ... (BUG ?)

Modifié par peddroelmz, 01 février 2013 - 04:40 .

[neteng101]

Wow that is excellet work peddro... do you know if sticky grenades benefit from power amplifier consumables? Or gear that adds to tech damage (eg. Operative Package)?

[Cyonan]

I always suspected they benefited from ammo powers.

Nice to have it confirmed.

[Feneckus]

 Hmm, I guess not putting any points in sticky grenades with my Claymore FQI was a big mistake.

[Zero132132]

This include armor piercing? Might need to respec an HI...

[peddroelm]

neteng101 wrote...

Wow that is excellet work peddro... do you know if sticky grenades benefit from power amplifier consumables? Or gear that adds to tech damage (eg. Operative Package)?

Power Amplifier Module (consumable) & Mental Focuser (gear) will work for all grenades (damage) ... Will not affect ammo consumable damage (that runs out of base weapon damage for the active weapon) ...

Don't know if they are considered tech power - did not occur to me to test ...

[TheKillerAngel]

How are you collecting this data? From the console, a special program, or something else?

[peddroelm]

Zero132132 wrote...

This include armor piercing? Might need to respec an HI...

 

This should include armor piercing ...But I fail to see the benefit ... If you are using a shotgun - the stickiy grenade will do a tiny bit of damage on contact (%  of one pellet damage) ... 


I think its much easier to apply the ammo effect using your weapon (not the limited sticky grenades) .. And the extra ammo damage inflicted on hit by the sticky grenade is only relevant if  you are using the top end high damage per shot weapons ...( pellet shotguns don't really qualify - each pellet does little damge )

Yes you can get them to detonate  fire/cryo explosions (can easily do ~4 k damage vs armor with cloak bonus - more with cryo debuff)  .. Can also detonate Tech Bursts without need to kill ... But you can use weapon fire to setup anyway (fact that stickies apply ammo effects on contact doen't seem so game breaking to me) ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 22 septembre 2012 - 07:09 .

[neteng101]

peddroelmz wrote...

Don't know if they are considered tech power - did not occur to me to test ...

Thanks for the info - good to know how grenades get extra damage.  I think the tech/biotic power of grenades might be worth a test...  but you'd have to consider different grenade types - I wonder if some are biotic (eg. cluster/lift grenaces) and others are tech (sticky, arc, homing, etc).

[llandwynwyn]

peddroelmz wrote...

This
should include armor piercing ...But I fail to see the benefit ... If
you are using a shotgun - the stickiy grenade will do a tiny bit of
damage on contact (%  of one pellet damage) ... 

 Not with the crusader, right?

I knew about the ammo effect but not that it was dependent on weapon. That explains why my SG are so powerful now, I thought it was because of the last buff.

Modifié par llandwynwyn, 22 septembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[TheKillerAngel]

So, a Quarian Female infiltrator with a Claymore (apparently only 1 pellet for shotguns) and a high level ammo power could do substantial damage with the grenades. Must try this now.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 22 septembre 2012 - 07:06 .

[Ziegrif]

uuuh... So having an ammo power consumable like an Incendiary ammo = Sticky grenade makes fire? And having a claymore = Stickys get better dmg?

It's hard to understand huge strings of numbers... they confuse me.

[Cyonan]

llandwynwyn wrote...
 Not with the crusader, right?

I knew about the ammo effect but not that it was dependent on weapon. That explains why my SG are so powerful now, I thought it was because of the last buff.

Crusader would do more damage, since it only has one projectile.

The amount of damage you'd get isn't ever that amazing, but it's a nice extra.

If you had a Javelin X with AP III on, it would do 386.43 damage, and that's pretty much the highest damage gun you'll get(not sure how it calculates Kishock with the bleed)

[Teratoid]

Guess this explains why my FHI's stikies act like Incendiaries sometimes...

[peddroelm]

Ziegrif wrote...

uuuh... So having an ammo power consumable like an Incendiary ammo = Sticky grenade makes fire? And having a claymore = Stickys get better dmg?

It's hard to understand huge strings of numbers... they confuse me.

 

Claymore is not so hot - it has very little base damage ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 22 septembre 2012 - 07:11 .

[peddroelm]

Cyonan wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...
 Not with the crusader, right?

I knew about the ammo effect but not that it was dependent on weapon. That explains why my SG are so powerful now, I thought it was because of the last buff.

Crusader would do more damage, since it only has one projectile.

The amount of damage you'd get isn't ever that amazing, but it's a nice extra.

If you had a Javelin X with AP III on, it would do 386.43 damage, and that's pretty much the highest damage gun you'll get(not sure how it calculates Kishock with the bleed)

 

Javelin X fire the sticky from cloak using the javelin scope

1288.1 * (1 + 0.25) = 1610.125

Ammo damage would % of that so incendiary IV would do
1610.125 * 0.5 = 805.0625 vs armor/health

Warp IV would
1610.125 * 0.6 = 966.075

Also ammo damage is amplified by (most) debuffs (cryo blast)

Modifié par peddroelmz, 22 septembre 2012 - 07:19 .

[Cyonan]

peddroelmz wrote...

Javelin X fire the sticky from cloak using the javelin scope

1288.1 * (1 + 0.25) = 1610.125

Ammo damage would % of that so incendiary IV would do
1610.125 * 0.5 = 805.0625 vs armor/health

Warp IV would
1610.125 * 0.6 = 966.075

Also ammo damage is amplified by debuffs (cryo blast)

Right, forgot about TC affecting the base damage directly.

Still, not an overly impessive amount of damage unless you're using IV ammo. A nice extra, though.

Would also be substantially less for something like the Crusader that isn't getting its' base damage boosted by 25% and which doesn't hit anywhere close to that of the Javelin X.

[peddroelm]

Cyonan wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

Javelin X fire the sticky from cloak using the javelin scope

1288.1 * (1 + 0.25) = 1610.125

Ammo damage would % of that so incendiary IV would do
1610.125 * 0.5 = 805.0625 vs armor/health

Warp IV would
1610.125 * 0.6 = 966.075

Also ammo damage is amplified by debuffs (cryo blast)

Right, forgot about TC affecting the base damage directly.

Still, not an overly impessive amount of damage unless you're using IV ammo. A nice extra, though.

Would also be substantially less for something like the Crusader that isn't getting its' base damage boosted by 25% and which doesn't hit anywhere close to that of the Javelin X.

If the effect were more pronounced more people would have've noticed earlier ... But with most weapons//ammo powers combinations the effect is minimal ..

[Nitrocuban]

Makes sense in a way, sticky nades and the scorpion probably use the same program code and Scorpion projectiles work exactly like that on direct hit, not on aoe explosion to apply ammo effects.

[synapsefire]

 Thanks for testing this!

[jakenou]

Feneckus wrote...

 Hmm, I guess not putting any points in sticky grenades with my Claymore FQI was a big mistake.

Same here. Oops

[jaydubs67]

I wonder...  how does disruptor ammo interract with sticky grenades?  If they can prime for tech bursts, and the priming power is counted as disruptor ammo, then can you turn sticky grenades into sticky + tech burst grenades?  

Because if you can prime and detonate a tech burst with a single sticky grenade, that makes them significantly better.  

[blaze55555]

I have a feeling there's a connection between Scorpion Heavy Pistol projectiles and Sticky Grenades. They look similar, and act the same - they apply ammo effects but only when they are stuck directly on the enemy. They also Behave similarly exploding-wise. They always stick first and take a few seconds to explode. I'm not sure however: if you fire the Scorpion at the environment, it becomes a, more-or-less, proximity mine, which explodes if an enemy is both in range of the explosion AND they move in a direction which is towards the sticky 'grenade' - I think the Sticky Grenade would only act this way with the Proximity Mine R6 evolution.

Of note: The gun with the HIGHEST base damage would be best; if it's a SR, make sure to scope in for the Damage Bonus.

NOTES: Would the Kishock easily be the best gun non-scoped? as it has no Hipfire penalty and base damage (at rank X) of 980ish, only 100 less than Widow X, and ~300 less than Javelin X.

Could you do a summary at the beginning saying the mechanics you found out? The Tech Bursts you saw, was that solely from Throwing the grenade, sticking it to an enemy, and letting it blow up? Literally priming and detonating its own Tech Bursts???

[blaze55555]

Cyonan wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...
 Not with the crusader, right?

I knew about the ammo effect but not that it was dependent on weapon. That explains why my SG are so powerful now, I thought it was because of the last buff.

Crusader would do more damage, since it only has one projectile.

The amount of damage you'd get isn't ever that amazing, but it's a nice extra.

If you had a Javelin X with AP III on, it would do 386.43 damage, and that's pretty much the highest damage gun you'll get(not sure how it calculates Kishock with the bleed)

From what he's said, I'd say it's not so much about how many projectiles are fired or whatnot, but the base damage; always something about the base damage; TC helps based on the data; Hipfire damage hurts from what I can tell.

The Kishock has high base damage... then again... I could be wrong; I vaguely remember his Ammo Damage calculations for Kishock damage showed that it goes off of base damage, not bleed. BUT: If you charge it... it could create amazing results and you wouldn't have to worry about scoping in b/c no Hipfire penalty.

My best bets are on the GPS, Javelin, Kishock (esp. Charged), Widow, Mantis, Krysae, Crusader, Saber, Paladin, Scorpion, Arc Pistol if charged?...

Peddro: Maybe make a list of most beneficial guns for this ammo effect to least beneficial for the ammo effect.