80 réponses à ce sujet

[Yajuu Omoi]

blaze55555 wrote...

I have a feeling there's a connection between Scorpion Heavy Pistol projectiles and Sticky Grenades. They look similar, and act the same - they apply ammo effects but only when they are stuck directly on the enemy. They also Behave similarly exploding-wise. They always stick first and take a few seconds to explode. I'm not sure however: if you fire the Scorpion at the environment, it becomes a, more-or-less, proximity mine, which explodes if an enemy is both in range of the explosion AND they move in a direction which is towards the sticky 'grenade' - I think the Sticky Grenade would only act this way with the Proximity Mine R6 evolution.

Of note: The gun with the HIGHEST base damage would be best; if it's a SR, make sure to scope in for the Damage Bonus.

NOTES: Would the Kishock easily be the best gun non-scoped? as it has no Hipfire penalty and base damage (at rank X) of 980ish, only 100 less than Widow X, and ~300 less than Javelin X.

Could you do a summary at the beginning saying the mechanics you found out? The Tech Bursts you saw, was that solely from Throwing the grenade, sticking it to an enemy, and letting it blow up? Literally priming and detonating its own Tech Bursts???

You forgot the charge of the Kishock boosts it by an additional 75%.

[corlist]

Ammo damage for the kishock does not increase when you charge it, but it has the advantage over other snipers of not restricting your movement/view by having no unscoped penalty. The GI Javelin is the best in any case as the proximity mine, geth weapon bonus and TC sniper bonus all influence ammo damage.

[Koenig888]

Thanks for the clarification. Good work, as always.

[peddroelm]

jaydubs67 wrote...

I wonder... how does disruptor ammo interract with sticky grenades? If they can prime for tech bursts, and the priming power is counted as disruptor ammo, then can you turn sticky grenades into sticky + tech burst grenades?

Because if you can prime and detonate a tech burst with a single sticky grenade, that makes them significantly better.

blaze55555 wrote...

.. The Tech Bursts you saw, was that solely from Throwing the grenade, sticking it to an enemy, and letting it blow up? Literally priming and detonating its own Tech Bursts???

Yes first example is me throwing 4 sticky grenades at an atlas shield with disruptor ammo II...The second and third stickies also detonated tech bursts ...

blaze55555 wrote...

Peddro: Maybe make a list of most beneficial guns for this ammo effect to least beneficial for the ammo effect.

Take Cyonan's Weapon stats table .. Multiply base damage by 1.25 in case of having a sniper rifle and firing the sticky from cloak (dough you might want to throw the sticky without the cloak bonus and activate cloak just before they blow up - this way you get the cloak bonus for the sticky grenade explosion - and with maxed stickies that would be more damage than the ammo damage in most cases) ... Sort by base weapon damage .. pretty much it ..

Javelin , Widow, Kishok , ... .... , GPSMG

corlist wrote...

Ammo damage for the kishock does not increase when you charge it, but it has the advantage over other snipers of not restricting your movement/view by having no unscoped penalty. The GI Javelin is the best in any case as the proximity mine, geth weapon bonus and TC sniper bonus all influence ammo damage.

True - but keep in mind Geth Infiltrators don't get sticky grenades ..

[Heggy]

Wow, the stickies with disruptor ammo is incredible, self tech bursting. Were you able to figure out what rank the ammo contributes to the detonation? I noticed you have a ? there.

[corlist]

Heggy wrote...

Wow, the stickies with disruptor ammo is incredible, self tech bursting. Were you able to figure out what rank the ammo contributes to the detonation? I noticed you have a ? there.

All ammo consumables are tested to be level 1 in power combos. Peddro used a level 6 sticky. The numbers don't add up however, hence the ?

[peddroelm]

Heggy wrote...

Wow, the stickies with disruptor ammo is incredible, self tech bursting. Were you able to figure out what rank the ammo contributes to the detonation? I noticed you have a ? there.

Not sure sticky grenades + disruptor ammo can prime and detonate in one cast .. Which means - applying the disruptor effect via weapon fire and detonating with sticky is probably a more economical way (sticky grenades are in short supply ..) 

The ?? there is because of the damage inflicted by that Tech Burst ...According to Corlist's Combo damage formula 
Rank 6 Power + Disruptor ammo should've done 100 * (1 + ((6 + 1 - 2) * 0.15)) * 4.3875 * 2 = 1535.625 damage to platinum shields .. 

Observed damage was 1167 ... Will need more tests in the future to figure out how that tech burst damage is calculated (because it was a tech burst for sure) ...

[RoZh2400]

Is this really that new? I've been setting stuff on fire with Sticky Grenade+Incendiary Ammo for ages now...

[peddroelm]

RoZh2400 wrote...

Is this really that new? I've been setting stuff on fire with Sticky Grenade+Incendiary Ammo for ages now...

its not new .. probably been that way since release ...

[Kirrahe Airlines CEO]

Holy hell, nice work op. I might have to spec into these now. As I normally don't spec into the stickies.

[MaxShine]

That is a game mechanic I never would have guessed... Especially the 'scoping the SR to throw a sticky grenade' part... Well done and thank you !

[sareth_65536]

I did found out that they apply ammo effects, but nice find about the damage.

Also will sticky ammo damage get a hipfire penalty if I throw it unscoped but use scope before it actually sticks?

[peddroelm]

sareth_65536 wrote...

I did found out that they apply ammo effects, but nice find about the damage.

Also will sticky ammo damage get a hipfire penalty if I throw it unscoped but use scope before it actually sticks?

another thing that did not occur to me to test at the time ...

[peddroelm]

Bump updated OP 7 sticky chained (valiant - high chance to apply disruptor effect) .. 5 of them applied and detonated TB ...

Basically you can get "free" tech bursts when using disruptor ammo with sticky grenades ... (BUG ?)


test repeat (same conditions as in last test in OP) .. 4 sticky grenades 4 tech bursts ...


Damage 52.000000
Damage 2610.000000
Damage 788.000000 // TB

Damage 52.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 //TB

Damage 41.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 // TB

Damage 41.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 //TB

Modifié par peddroelmz, 23 septembre 2012 - 11:41 .

[Bleachrude]

RoZh2400 wrote...

Is this really that new? I've been setting stuff on fire with Sticky Grenade+Incendiary Ammo for ages now...

Not new but I think most players have ignored sticky grenades. Mainly because, even though it has the highest damage among grenade types, it has by far, the smallest radius of effect.

Most people use grenades to clear spawn points/groups of mobs so sticky got ignored (unfairly)...

[llandwynwyn]

RoZh2400 wrote...

Is this really that new? I've been setting stuff on fire with Sticky Grenade+Incendiary Ammo for ages now...

IKR. After all this time, you would think everyone knew how a vanilla ability works.

Anyway, inc. ammo is the best, the first prime and the second (if it kills) creates a beautiful fire explosion.

[me0120]

Since its so dependent on the weapon, will you receive damage bonus against shields using a talon?!

[peddroelm]

me0120 wrote...

Since its so dependent on the weapon, will you receive damage bonus against shields using a talon?!

no

[slescens]

peddroelmz wrote...

Bump updated OP 7 sticky chained (valiant - high chance to apply disruptor effect) .. 5 of them applied and detonated TB ...

Basically you can get "free" tech bursts when using disruptor ammo with sticky grenades ... (BUG ?)


test repeat (same conditions as in last test in OP) .. 4 sticky grenades 4 tech bursts ...


Damage 52.000000
Damage 2610.000000
Damage 788.000000 // TB

Damage 52.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 //TB

Damage 41.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 // TB

Damage 41.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 //TB

I'm trying to wrap my head around these numbers... so is each of these 3 part strings representing one sticky grenade throw?

Damage 41.000000 - sticky grenade impact w/ target, tech burst condition applied?
Damage 1890.000000 - sticky grenade explosion, tech burst condition detonated?
Damage 788.000000 //TB - damage caused by techburst?

That is what I am understanding from the numbers.  Am I in the ballpark?

[peddroelm]

slescens wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

Bump updated OP 7 sticky chained (valiant - high chance to apply disruptor effect) .. 5 of them applied and detonated TB ...

Basically you can get "free" tech bursts when using disruptor ammo with sticky grenades ... (BUG ?)


test repeat (same conditions as in last test in OP) .. 4 sticky grenades 4 tech bursts ...


Damage 52.000000
Damage 2610.000000
Damage 788.000000 // TB

Damage 52.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 //TB

Damage 41.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 // TB

Damage 41.000000
Damage 1890.000000
Damage 788.000000 //TB

I'm trying to wrap my head around these numbers... so is each of these 3 part strings representing one sticky grenade throw?

Damage 41.000000 - sticky grenade impact w/ target, tech burst condition applied?
Damage 1890.000000 - sticky grenade explosion, tech burst condition detonated?
Damage 788.000000 //TB - damage caused by techburst?

That is what I am understanding from the numbers.  Am I in the ballpark?

first number is disruptor ammo damage (is percent of valiant (equipped weapon) base damage )
(applied when sticky sitcks to the target)

second number is the explosion damage of the sticky grenade 

third number is optional (tech burst damage)  - if the sitcky applied the disruptor effect (set up tech burst on contact) - tech burst will happen after the mine explodes .. Valiant seems a much better weapon than GPS to trigger disruptor effect ... Has very high chance even with low level disruptor ammo ..

[slescens]

Cool...thanks for the clarification and all the work.

[Asebstos]

Neato.


Looks like I should switch my FQI from a Talon to a Paladin/Saber perhaps... but only when using level III or IV ammo powers. The effect with a I or II doesn't seem all that significant.

[peddroelm]

Asebstos wrote...

Neato.


Looks like I should switch my FQI from a Talon to a Paladin/Saber perhaps... but only when using level III or IV ammo powers. The effect with a I or II doesn't seem all that significant.

I would reccomend trying them with disruptor ammo & valiant ... Ammo damage will be negligible but will have huge chance to also cause tech bursts for each sticky  ...

[neteng101]

Peddro - I do think I know why stickies are behaving this way. It likely is exactly the same projectile as launched by the Scorpion thus ammo powers being applied. Maybe you should try out the Scorpion for comparison.