191 réponses à ce sujet

[Crimson Vanguard]

Inabstract wrote...

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Well too bad Bioware dont care as long as the game is "challenging" in their own way

I'm only pointing out my opinions for others to see. As I stated, if Phantoms got a small speed reduction and maybe lowered the reduction of their bubble and flips, I think they would be pretty *balanced* then.

Regardless of if Bioware implements this into action, this is my proposition.

I have nothing against your opinion plus I would welcome a nerf in cheapness and AI improvement but too bad, making a cheap enemy is easier than a good one

[Rifneno]

I got the bestest phantom death ever yesterday. We were on condor (bad start, right?) and I was on that overlook in the center. Phantom walks into a stasis bubble and sync kills me. In the stasis bubble. And no, she hadn't been stasis'd a bunch already and built up immunity. She just decided the stasis bubble wasn't going to work for her.

Phantoms are the most retarded enemy ever. I've played most of BW's games and I've never seen anything like phantoms. It's like a game where every 3rd enemy is Kangaxx. JFC, Bioware. There's a thing called "tuning." Look into it.

[-JP-]

In terms of balance, she's that much stronger than most enemies, yes. However, with the right class, power and/or equipment, she's not really that much of an issue. Just use a power when she's moving, forcing her to stand still, and shoot her when she's stationary. Or use stasis. Or a Kreegar carbine. Or dark channel + annihilation field. Or a scorpion. The list goes on. It's nowhere near enough of an issue to warrant a nerf, IMO.

Modifié par -JP-, 23 septembre 2012 - 06:55 .

[Rifneno]

-JP- wrote...

In terms of balance, she's that much stronger than most enemies, yes. However, with the right class, power and/or equipment, she's not really that much of an issue. Just use a power when she's moving, forcing her to stand still, and shoot her when she's stationary. Or use stasis. Or a Kreegar carbine. Or dark channel + annihilation field. Or a scorpion. The list goes on. It's nowhere near enough of an issue to warrant a nerf, IMO.

I like that half of your suggestions involve CQC.  What could go wrong?

[Inabstract]

Fox-snipe wrote...

The only thing I want changed on the Phantom is for her to stay in cover an extra 1-2 seconds.  Everytime I line up a headshot she decides to jump out of cover. 

Otherwise she's pretty easy.  Just get her to put her shield up and then headshot her.  Or use grenades after she starts moving again.

She gains DR once the shield is up, and if I can recall a Claymore X with a large quantity of consumables couldn't bring her down. If you use nades while she moves she will simply put up her bubble. Why Bioware,,,,,, why!

[Zeromarro4]

Thank you stasis, I love you.

[Inabstract]

Zeromarro4 wrote...

Thank you stasis, I love you.

It does work if you kill her immediately, but when your being focus-fired by everything else she eventually becomes completely immune to Stasis.

[Cyonan]

Inabstract wrote...

It does work if you kill her immediately, but when your being focus-fired by everything else she eventually becomes completely immune to Stasis.

Even with diminishing returns, you can hold a Phantom for a decent amount of time.

It should be more than enough time, unless you're trying to clear out the entire rest of the wave first.

[Inabstract]

Cyonan wrote...

Inabstract wrote...

It does work if you kill her immediately, but when your being focus-fired by everything else she eventually becomes completely immune to Stasis.

Even with diminishing returns, you can hold a Phantom for a decent amount of time.

It should be more than enough time, unless you're trying to clear out the entire rest of the wave first.

This is slightly inaccurate. Phantoms initially stay in Stasis for a decent amount of time. the 2nd and 3rd times are at the point of complete immunity, the 4th I believe is immunity. Regardless of if it is or not, my point is without cover fire, yes a Phantom is surely dead.

When you have an Atlas, and a few troopers rushing you before you can get that final kill-shot on that lone Phantom, of course you will have trouble.

[jamasonfierce]

Phantoms are what balance Cerberus in the first place. There are easy ways to kill them - stasis, grenades thrown near but not at them, taking down their shields then krogan meleeing them, N7 Shadow's shadow strike power - unfortunately a one-shot slow reload weapon isn't one of them. It's just a matter of diversifying tactics. Personally I find Cerberus so fun to play mostly because of phantoms. They can be a real challenge.

[DatFeel]

I'd rather fight a Phantom than an Atlas. Maybe I'm just crazy. I really hate the Atlas for some reason.

[FasterThanFTL]

A Phantom on her own is fine, it when 4 of them come at you at the same time you have no option but to either "waste" a rocket or run. Run option can be very difficult for most classes so you are mostly likely screwed.

Modifié par FasterThanFTL, 23 septembre 2012 - 07:28 .

[Inabstract]

jamasonfierce wrote...

Phantoms are what balance Cerberus in the first place. There are easy ways to kill them - stasis, grenades thrown near but not at them, taking down their shields then krogan meleeing them, N7 Shadow's shadow strike power - unfortunately a one-shot slow reload weapon isn't one of them. It's just a matter of diversifying tactics. Personally I find Cerberus so fun to play mostly because of phantoms. They can be a real challenge.

Reload-Canceling makes the claymore very consistent in damage output. Yes, their are many ways in which you could kill a Phantom but it's their overall abilities that should be lowered a bit.

Geth Hunters for ex: have no true limits. They can attack even when staggered, move twice as fast as other units in it's faction, and destroys Krogan/Batarians. It would be nice to see these small changes i've already stated (somewhere above) be implemented. It wouldn't make Cerberus the weakest faction or anything, but essentially make them formidable without the use of DR beyond.... De Ja Vu.

[Cyonan]

Inabstract wrote...
This is slightly inaccurate. Phantoms initially stay in Stasis for a decent amount of time. the 2nd and 3rd times are at the point of complete immunity, the 4th I believe is immunity. Regardless of if it is or not, my point is without cover fire, yes a Phantom is surely dead.

When you have an Atlas, and a few troopers rushing you before you can get that final kill-shot on that lone Phantom, of course you will have trouble.

It's not inaccurate. Stasis can hold a target for 7.8 seconds(that's without the rank 4 duration evolution), plus afterwards the target falls over and needs to stand back up which is another ~3 seconds,

You should be able to hold them for around 20-23 seconds total between Stasis and the ragdoll effect it causes. That's way more than you should need to get a couple of shots off at them, even with an Atlas and some Troopers.

[Inabstract]

Cyonan wrote...

Inabstract wrote...
This is slightly inaccurate. Phantoms initially stay in Stasis for a decent amount of time. the 2nd and 3rd times are at the point of complete immunity, the 4th I believe is immunity. Regardless of if it is or not, my point is without cover fire, yes a Phantom is surely dead.

When you have an Atlas, and a few troopers rushing you before you can get that final kill-shot on that lone Phantom, of course you will have trouble.

It's not inaccurate. Stasis can hold a target for 7.8 seconds(that's without the rank 4 duration evolution), plus afterwards the target falls over and needs to stand back up which is another ~3 seconds,

You should be able to hold them for around 20-23 seconds total between Stasis and the ragdoll effect it causes. That's way more than you should need to get a couple of shots off at them, even with an Atlas and some Troopers.

As I stated, this is while being focus-fired. It's irrelevant how well Stasis works against Phantoms due to it being one power. If this thread was to point out the specific time Stasis could hold a Phantom (and I thank you for the info) I would have already deemed this thread simply taking up space.

Sadly, one power can't solve an entire enemies abilities. An Atlas consistently firing at you while troopers move in at your position isn't a serious threat, but at times it's enough for a Phantom to go stealth and get away with a death once again.

If your being pounded by 2-3 Phantoms, one Stasis isn't really gonna cut it regardless if they're all caught in the bubble multiple times.

[A Raging God]

As much as i hate phantoms and all of their bull****, they are the only enemy that pose a threat on cerberus. One thing i would like to see is maybe a tone down on damage from the turret because its just insta death if you do not notice it haha.

Since we are on a phantom topic does any know if they have increase the phantoms fatality rate because lately it seems to happen so much more?

[MaxShine]

I actually enjoy fighting phantoms

[Cyonan]

Inabstract wrote...
As I stated, this is while being focus-fired. It's irrelevant how well Stasis works against Phantoms due to it being one power. If this thread was to point out the specific time Stasis could hold a Phantom (and I thank you for the info) I would have already deemed this thread simply taking up space.

Sadly, one power can't solve an entire enemies abilities. An Atlas consistently firing at you while troopers move in at your position isn't a serious threat, but at times it's enough for a Phantom to go stealth and get away with a death once again.

If your being pounded by 2-3 Phantoms, one Stasis isn't really gonna cut it regardless if they're all caught in the bubble multiple times.

If it's the Atlas and Troopers, it's long enough to take out a couple of the Troopers to buy you some breathing room and then deal with the Phantom, using a second Stasis if neccessary. The Atlas moves slow enough that it shouldn't become an issue, and his firing patterns are very predictable.

If it's multiple Phantoms, you'll probably have to retreat a bit and use Stasis to seperate them, then quickly take them out one by one. Or if you trap all of them in the bubble, just kill 1-2 and retreat, then kill the remaining one. There is no rule that states you need to hold your ground against them.

The Phantom's entire durability is from her damage reduction that they don't have in Stasis. Once you trap them they're only slightly more durable than the Centurion is.

[Inabstract]

A Raging God wrote...

As much as i hate phantoms and all of their bull****, they are the only enemy that pose a threat on cerberus. One thing i would like to see is maybe a tone down on damage from the turret because its just insta death if you do not notice it haha.

Since we are on a phantom topic does any know if they have increase the phantoms fatality rate because lately it seems to happen so much more?

what makes Cerberus formidable is their tendency to group up with each other.

Geth at times will spread out to attack different players on the map. It's hard to pinpoint a Hunter when you have a Pyro closing in behind you.

Reapers are just... they're simply everywhere. Marauders and Cannibals are the only group that consistently stick together.

Cerberus will have their entire wave focus-fire you if you're the only one within sights. They will push forward increasingly but that gives you time to make hit-run tactics. The downside to this though, is they will stay in the same position at times so you can get caught easily. Turret has to be that powerful since the Engineer just walks around doing nothing. Just think of the Turret as an enemy with the highest DPS ever.

Not so sure about how much more Phantoms may insta-kill. seems regular to me (them trying all the time) 

[Untonic]

I think they're fine, I love going toe-to-toe with them, I would rather dance with them than a Banshee, Atlas, heck even a Geth Rocket Trooper.

They give you more to think than just run 'n gun. Popcorn them with the acolyte or tease them with a Shadow, though to be honest... fighting a Phantom with the Shadow makes me feel like I'm a Predator hunting down some dangerous prey. Let's keep it that way.

[Ashen One]

A Raging God wrote...

As much as i hate phantoms and all of their bull****, they are the only enemy that pose a threat on cerberus.

People underestimate the Nemesis and the Atlas too often.

If you're playing a character with low health like a Geth Engineer/Infiltrator, a Nemesis will ruin your day if you're caught in the open. Atlases are no better with their ridiculous homing rockets. Centurions, Phantoms, and Combat Engineers will camp in cover until your shields are dropped and you are stunned by an Atlas rocket to gun you down before you can even recover.

[Inabstract]

Cyonan wrote...

Inabstract wrote...
As I stated, this is while being focus-fired. It's irrelevant how well Stasis works against Phantoms due to it being one power. If this thread was to point out the specific time Stasis could hold a Phantom (and I thank you for the info) I would have already deemed this thread simply taking up space.

Sadly, one power can't solve an entire enemies abilities. An Atlas consistently firing at you while troopers move in at your position isn't a serious threat, but at times it's enough for a Phantom to go stealth and get away with a death once again.

If your being pounded by 2-3 Phantoms, one Stasis isn't really gonna cut it regardless if they're all caught in the bubble multiple times.

If it's the Atlas and Troopers, it's long enough to take out a couple of the Troopers to buy you some breathing room and then deal with the Phantom, using a second Stasis if neccessary. The Atlas moves slow enough that it shouldn't become an issue, and his firing patterns are very predictable.

If it's multiple Phantoms, you'll probably have to retreat a bit and use Stasis to seperate them, then quickly take them out one by one. Or if you trap all of them in the bubble, just kill 1-2 and retreat, then kill the remaining one. There is no rule that states you need to hold your ground against them.

The Phantom's entire durability is from her damage reduction that they don't have in Stasis. Once you trap them they're only slightly more durable than the Centurion is.

I understand the tactics in dealing with Phantoms. It's just simply the incredible feats they can do.

Yes the Atlas' attack patterns are predictable, but at times the Phantom is within this attack pattern and it has already locked onto you. This gives her time to run away like the non-ninja she is, what you stated though is true. Phantoms can be brought down easily with Stasis.

Killing multiple Phantoms take in your weapon of choice, with your consistency of shots. All that means is  something like a SR on an Adept or any weapon that doesn't put out enough DPS will fail and Stasis will be reduced to nothing. The best way to go (if soloing) is running around the map at least trying to take them out one by one as you've stated. Focus-firing with a group is relatively easy, unless they spawn behind you (bad luck).

All I ask for is her DR and speed get reduced by at least a bit. To some forum posters, they're the only real threat but you can't count out an entire enemy faction. It's like saying Marauder Shields is just their to annoy you.

Anyways, your points are very valid, but Stasis in general can't solve an entire enemies abilities to do crazy stunts (usually because not everyone wants to be an AA or AV).

[Arppis]

Air Quotes wrote...

They DON'T NEED to flip or use barrier hand. All they have to do is move to gain 80-90% damage reduction. And that is so BS it's not even funny.

You know... THAT is BS.

[MaxShine]

Ashen Earth wrote...

A Raging God wrote...

As much as i hate phantoms and all of their bull****, they are the only enemy that pose a threat on cerberus.

People underestimate the Nemesis and the Atlas too often.

If you're playing a character with low health like a Geth Engineer/Infiltrator, a Nemesis will ruin your day if you're caught in the open. Atlases are no better with their ridiculous homing rockets. Centurions, Phantoms, and Combat Engineers will camp in cover until your shields are dropped and you are stunned by an Atlas rocket to gun you down before you can even recover.

I hate the Nemesis, she is not only dangerous for GE/GI, but also for every vanguard. Imagine you charge into a group of Troopers + Centurion and just after the charge the Nemesis shoots you and takes away your shields. So you stand naked before a bunch of enemies with burst fire... usually this results in ops pack use or just going down + medigel

[Ashen One]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

A Raging God wrote...

As much as i hate phantoms and all of their bull****, they are the only enemy that pose a threat on cerberus.

People underestimate the Nemesis and the Atlas too often.

If you're playing a character with low health like a Geth Engineer/Infiltrator, a Nemesis will ruin your day if you're caught in the open. Atlases are no better with their ridiculous homing rockets. Centurions, Phantoms, and Combat Engineers will camp in cover until your shields are dropped and you are stunned by an Atlas rocket to gun you down before you can even recover.

I hate the Nemesis, she is not only dangerous for GE/GI, but also for every vanguard. Imagine you charge into a group of Troopers + Centurion and just after the charge the Nemesis shoots you and takes away your shields. So you stand naked before a bunch of enemies with burst fire... usually this results in ops pack use or just going down + medigel

Also this. I played a Claymore Novaguard with half blast earlier today, and it never failed: every time I would charge, a Nemesis that everyone else wanted to ignore would snipe me from across the map. So I couldn't Nova cancel for invincibility frames

And if I so much thought about using an ops pack, another Nemesis or Atlas would just health gate me anyway since shield gate has a cooldown.