191 réponses à ce sujet

[VaultingFrog]

Air Quotes wrote...


Now I can clearly see you didn't play this game or you play it without looking. Phantoms do clib ladders and often. 

90% DR just for moving is not "a bit". And that DR DOENS'T MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL. I'm fine with DR while flipping, fine with barrier hand, but DR while moving is BS. It's the only enemy in the game that has DR JUST FOR MOVING. Imagine Geth Hunters with DR while moving. Does that make sense? 

This DR for moving is what it's called "fake difficulty" to prolong games for no reason and ****** you off. Plain and simple. The devs can't figure out how to kill you fairly so they add the simplest cheapest techiques to provide "challenge" 

Insta-kills with no way to battle them, super accuracy with insane damage, DR just because "I said so" are the cheapest tricks in book of video game design. And the devs know it. 

Let me simplify this for you. Your crying at this point amounts to me doing this: YAWN

Beyond that there isnt much to say simply because your crying over your lack of ability to kill things while others actually succeed because we make ourselves succeed.

Modifié par VaultingFrog, 23 septembre 2012 - 02:04 .

[EricPhail]

I'd settle for the palm blaster taking a hit (reduced stagger and damage OR Same but only 1 shot) stupid cheap cannon of death...

[zRz Tyr]

Cyonan wrote...

If they nerfed the Phantom, they'd need to buff pretty much everything else on Cerberus.

They're really the only unit that causes issues(or the odd unnoticed Turret).

I would rather have that than phantoms.

[sareth_65536]

phantom is BY FAR the easiest boss-type enemy among all the fractions. Stasis, shadow strike, power+headshot, reegar, krogan melee, biotic charge, GPS, graal, some other things - all this lets you to deal with them instantly and easy.
They really should buff them until they fix atlas multi-hit bug.

[JG The Gamer]

[quote]Air Quotes wrote...

[quote]VaultingFrog wrote...

[quote]Air Quotes wrote...

[quote]VaultingFrog wrote...

[quote]Air Quotes wrote...

[quote]VaultingFrog wrote...

[quote]Air Quotes wrote...

[quote]VaultingFrog wrote...

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[/quote]
 
[/quote]

Now I can clearly see you didn't play this game or you play it without looking. Phantoms do clib ladders and often. 

90% DR just for moving is not "a bit". And that DR DOENS'T MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL. I'm fine with DR while flipping, fine with barrier hand, but DR while moving is BS. It's the only enemy in the game that has DR JUST FOR MOVING. Imagine Geth Hunters with DR while moving. Does that make sense? 

This DR for moving is what it's called "fake difficulty" to prolong games for no reason and ****** you off. Plain and simple. The devs can't figure out how to kill you fairly so they add the simplest cheapest techiques to provide "challenge" 

Insta-kills with no way to battle them, super accuracy with insane damage, DR just because "I said so" are the cheapest tricks in book of video game design. And the devs know it. 
[/quote]



Let me simplify this for you. Your crying at this point amounts to me doing this: YAWN

Beyond that there isnt much to say simply because your crying over your lack of ability to kill things while others actually succeed because we make ourselves succeed.[/quote]

And you have no logical arguments. Seen a lot of your kind. 



So don't tell me I don't know how to handle Phantoms 




[/quote]

DING DING DING We have a winner!

Every build I make requires a Phantom countermeasure first and everything else second.

[4ut0b4hn5child27]

screw with their Phase Disruptor...It's just plain ridiculous and she can even hit me when i do a slip dodge..... i think they need a bit nerf for the damage of her Phase disruptor and decrease the rate of fire or accuracy.....

i don't mind with her monomolecular blade sync-kill though

Modifié par 4ut0b4hn5child27, 23 septembre 2012 - 02:52 .

[BiO]

I suggest everyone try to kill a phantom both off-host and while hosting. I just did a test on Plat, while hosting Phantom took ~200 harrier bullets (no consumables, amps, gears or mods, lvl 20 soldier with 27% weapon boost), off host it took ~40 harrier bullets, same deal. When off-host Phantom never once did bring out her DR, nor did she do any cartwheels.

[Reizo Ryuu]

Only problem with phantoms is that their light melee hits you on the very first frame, when the spin isn't even completed yet, that's just BS, otherwise they are fine and N7 Slayer makes them cry.

[ParatrooperSean]

Air Quotes wrote...

mybudgee wrote...

Someone said the N7 Paladin is like a Phantom butcher....

Some classes like AA make Phantoms a joke, some weapons like GPS or Acolyte make them a joke.

But it's stupid. An uncharged GPS barrage will staggerlock the Phantom whole day long. A shot from the most powerful weapon in the game - Claymore? 1-2 bars of damage. LOL. 

Air Quotes, most (not all) of the guys I play with are decent, and I think I'm a decent player. In both matches we played with you, you dominated the points board. Phantoms are extremely annoying, but I think you'll be OK.

[tntk252]

I honestly didn't think this was a problem. Until the last match I played. N7 Destroyer, Javelin. FBW, Cerberus, Silver.

No consumables. A single Javelin shot to the body took off all but two bars of Barrier while it wasn't moving.

Same wave. Single Javelin shot to the Head while it was moving took off 2 whole bars of Barrier.

I'm all for making the enemies slightly more resistant to damage while moving, but that's just stupid. I headshot a phantom that was flipping with a Javelin. Ever done that? Consistently in a match? It hard. If I do it, I want it to damn well hurt.

[MichaelFinnegan]

Inabstract wrote...

Seriously though, their DR is way too much when they do that little flip.

Claymore X + AP ammo IV and shotgun rail amp III wrecks everything. With the paladin's Snap Freeze, even more so. Every Cerberus enemy can be sniped with Smart Choke, yet at point-blank range Phantom's lose only 2-3 bars of Barrier and Health.

Even more annoying is the fact that they seem to instantly know when your about to shoot. I'm not sure what the DR is for *Phantom gymnastics* but it's much too high. An atlas is essentially easier to kill than a Phantom at this point... (not in terms of speed)

I have been trying solo platinum runs to see how best to handle phantoms in general (I've tried soloing gold but can't seem to get past wave 3 without consumables, so platinum is what I had to settle with). I must say that when they're moving (just moving, not flipping), doing headshots on them at very close range with a Claymore X (with shotgun high caliber barrel V and smart choke V, but no other weapon/ammo consumable added) seems to give inconsistent results at best - sometimes they die and sometimes they don't. A month or so ago, with the Destroyer with Devastator Mode and the Battlesuit spec'ed purely for damage (and headshot damage), I was able to headshot 2 phantoms on wave 1 even with some (half?) barriers still left on them, but this was perhaps the only time I was able to do that. Today, after seeing this thread, I tried to repeat that feat but without success. Now Claymore X (my favorite  shotgun of late) presents a problem because even when reload-cancelled it doesn't seem to have a reliable phantom-stopping potential espcially when I'm also dealing with that hand cannon, at least without consumable weapon mods added. It appears that using a grenade first to stop their movement seems like the best way with the Destroyer (I haven't tried with the missile launcher), but grenades aren't always handy, so using them doesn't create the worst-possible condition.

Now I don't know if this has something to do with the targeting circle of the Claymore being bigger than the head of the phantom, and thereby some of the pellets missing altogether, sometimes, but at this point it appears to me that the GPS (and even the Graal) have a better bet when taking on phantoms, because they stagger them. But  GPS and Graal tend to miss a lot when not hosting, so that is definitely a problem. Also I don't like to use the Pirhanha and I haven't tried with that...

Medicate wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

I don't know if it's just me, but I think that I used to be able to stagger Phantoms with Batarian BB, but it doesn't work anymore... I stagger everyone else, Atlas included (although it only staggers once), but Phantoms just keep on running. I still have just minor problems with them, usually I use powers untill they raise their shields, headshot them a little, they do the flip & cloak and I finish them when they are hiding, but it still a lot of work for this 1.7k +- 500 points.

yeah, i also saw that when i played the Batarian Solider a Round ago... crappy against Phantoms now.

i used BB, Heavy Meele combo to take them out then. 2x done and they are dead and somehow they don't attack me

Yes, tried a few platinum solo's with the batarian soldier also. The issue I saw was that BB (spec'ed for cone and explosive blades) doesn't seem to stagger phantoms; however it did seem to stop their movement when the blades were used close enough. Now following this up with heavy melee doesn't always work, since sometimes I was able to take them out with heavy 2 melees in a row, but sometimes they also insta-killed me. It appears that blade armor has no use against the insta-kill move, which is rather sad.

[B.Shep]

Host them play as vanguard. Phantoms will become your b*tches.

[Inabstract]

Once again, I have read a few posts and I will state as BiO MaN said, that a Phantoms abilities apply differently as host and off-host. In my earlier posts, I tested off-host and had a slightly hard time as host.

Don't get me wrong, I think of myself as a formidable Platinum player (with friends) and can carry a team if necessary (in gold). What bugs me is her ability to survive multiple shots against the most powerful weapon in the game, added with some serious consumable buffing.

I have simply stated that her DR and speed should be decreased by at least a bit to justify her ways of *carrying an entire faction* as some would say (not in those specific words). I disagree with her being able to *carry* her group but of course she is the most dangerous in her faction.

I won't judge what people use, but some of you are stating stating that stagger weapons are the best way to go. Yes, they of course will finish her easily at that time (no DR) but it's her mechanics in general. We only turn a blind-eye due to the rest of cerberus not being that dangerous. Seeing as a Phantom compensates for the entire faction.

This way of thinking should be unacceptable but it's true. It's like saying Banshees are the only deadly enemy in the Reaper faction and Hunters the only cheating enemy in Geth.

By all means, if Bioware buffed all of Cerberus just to set a Phantom at reasonable standards, let it be. I'd rather see that than only fearing Phantoms and changing my tactics only when I see her.

B.Shep also stated to use a Vanguard. I love Vanguards and play them consistently, I need to change it up every now and then though just to get some fresh air. I pointed out that I used a Paladin with Claymore + consumable buff. This makes him a serious boss-killer especially with Snap-freeze weakening armor and still taking damage to lower enemies.

Air Quotes has stated that Phantoms are simply ridiculous in terms of DR and her palm-blaster. I agree and only wish for a small... *balance change*. Simply reduce how much damage she can take while flipping and reduce her movement speed. If this buffs the entire Cerberus faction to incredible lengths, then at least we no the Phantom isn't the only killer.

TL;DR Phantoms are the bane of MP and should be *balanced* to reasonable levels.

Modifié par Inabstract, 23 septembre 2012 - 05:46 .

[Ashen One]

neteng101 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

If you're playing a character with low health like a Geth Engineer/Infiltrator, a Nemesis will ruin your day if you're caught in the open.

Precisely what you get for running glass cannon builds without putting points into Fitness.

This reply is stupid. Geth characters have low health regardless of how many points you put into Fitness. A Nemesis shot does over 1600 damage afaik so for Geth you'd be screwed regardless.

[OblivionDawn]

Phantoms are cannon fodder on every difficulty. They're fine as long as you have situational awareness.

If anything on Cerberus needs balancing, it's a Centurion's melee range.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Phantoms are an incredible failure of internal balancing. I've never quite seen anything like it in any game I've ever played. They are so game-breaking that it goes into the realm of legend, and yet we have players who will religiously say "lrn2plyfgt" as if the people making complaints do not have valid arguments.

Let me spell things out: Any enemy that operates by completely invalidating most characters' abilities is badly-designed. Any enemy that is capable of doing not only this, but completely ignoring oncoming enemy fire is far worse, and goes into terribly badly designed. An enemy capable of doing all of these, plus instantly killing you and three-shotting the heaviest classes in the game? That falls into the territory of worst-designed enemy in the history of games.

See, as a game designer, I've done work on enemies in the past. An enemy that can invalidate a player's abilities isn't necessarily bad if it has other aspects which round it out.

A Beholder in Dungeons and Dragons, to coin an example, can't use its other eyes' lasers on you if you're in the area of the anti-magic cone in produces from its main eye. In other words, it has to shut off the anti-magic gaze to fire its hate-lasers, ergo making its biggest advantage also one of its biggest weaknesses. If it shuts off the main eye to fire off its eyebeams, enemies get their magic abilities right the hell back, and can rain serious punishment on the damned thing.

A Phantom, however, does it all, and is thus an utter failure of enemy design and balance.

[Inabstract]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Phantoms are cannon fodder on every difficulty. They're fine as long as you have situational awareness.

If anything on Cerberus needs balancing, it's a Centurion's melee range.

This is with specific builds/weapons. A Phantom as cannon fodder is inaccurate, troopers, centurions, guardians are the fodder in the Cerberus faction.

Phantoms will infiltrate behind you or lead the group in some cases. Most times a lone Phantom is an annoyance to an team doing a hack or trying to change up tactics. A multiple amount of Phantoms will either end the wave, or make your rate of deaths increase.

My suggestion isn't unreasonable and wouldn't hurt them that much at all, it would simply put them back as Phantoms, not living tanks that can infiltrate or take an entire teams barrage of ammo.

[OblivionDawn]

Inabstract wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Phantoms are cannon fodder on every difficulty. They're fine as long as you have situational awareness.

If anything on Cerberus needs balancing, it's a Centurion's melee range.

This is with specific builds/weapons. A Phantom as cannon fodder is inaccurate, troopers, centurions, guardians are the fodder in the Cerberus faction.

Phantoms will infiltrate behind you or lead the group in some cases. Most times a lone Phantom is an annoyance to an team doing a hack or trying to change up tactics. A multiple amount of Phantoms will either end the wave, or make your rate of deaths increase.

My suggestion isn't unreasonable and wouldn't hurt them that much at all, it would simply put them back as Phantoms, not living tanks that can infiltrate or take an entire teams barrage of ammo.

If you're fighting Cerberus with a build that doesn't have the means to handle a Phantom on it's own (or at least contribute to its death with other teammates), then you're doing it wrong. They're the only threatening enemy in the Cerberus faction, next to Turrets.

[Inabstract]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Phantoms are an incredible failure of internal balancing. I've never quite seen anything like it in any game I've ever played. They are so game-breaking that it goes into the realm of legend, and yet we have players who will religiously say "lrn2plyfgt" as if the people making complaints do not have valid arguments.

Let me spell things out: Any enemy that operates by completely invalidating most characters' abilities is badly-designed. Any enemy that is capable of doing not only this, but completely ignoring oncoming enemy fire is far worse, and goes into terribly badly designed. An enemy capable of doing all of these, plus instantly killing you and three-shotting the heaviest classes in the game? That falls into the territory of worst-designed enemy in the history of games.

See, as a game designer, I've done work on enemies in the past. An enemy that can invalidate a player's abilities isn't necessarily bad if it has other aspects which round it out.

A Beholder in Dungeons and Dragons, to coin an example, can't use its other eyes' lasers on you if you're in the area of the anti-magic cone in produces from its main eye. In other words, it has to shut off the anti-magic gaze to fire its hate-lasers, ergo making its biggest advantage also one of its biggest weaknesses. If it shuts off the main eye to fire off its eyebeams, enemies get their magic abilities right the hell back, and can rain serious punishment on the damned thing.

A Phantom, however, does it all, and is thus an utter failure of enemy design and balance.

I agree. The amount of abilities they can do without the use of synergy with her faction is *unbalanced* IMO.

Every person I know that plays MP understands that their the greatest threat and should be handled first. Think of it this way: Do you take out the Ravager sniping you across the map with a clear shot I might add, or the group of Marauders closing in on your position. It gives you something to think about, to change tactics if necessary.

If a Phantom is closing in on your position and a few Centurions are slowly closing in, who is the bigger threat? The way I see it, a Phantom will wreck you if you prioritize a few Centurions, but If you prioritized the Phantom she is still able to dish out damage (even when shot at) while Centurions have an easy-picking.

Phantoms should have a reduction in DR just to the point where a Claymore can at least hurt them while jumping around. Their speed could be reduced a bit too. You can run as long as you want, the minute you turn around, theirs a Phantom either hiding behind a wall or closing in fast.

[Inabstract]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Inabstract wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Phantoms are cannon fodder on every difficulty. They're fine as long as you have situational awareness.

If anything on Cerberus needs balancing, it's a Centurion's melee range.

This is with specific builds/weapons. A Phantom as cannon fodder is inaccurate, troopers, centurions, guardians are the fodder in the Cerberus faction.

Phantoms will infiltrate behind you or lead the group in some cases. Most times a lone Phantom is an annoyance to an team doing a hack or trying to change up tactics. A multiple amount of Phantoms will either end the wave, or make your rate of deaths increase.

My suggestion isn't unreasonable and wouldn't hurt them that much at all, it would simply put them back as Phantoms, not living tanks that can infiltrate or take an entire teams barrage of ammo.

If you're fighting Cerberus with a build that doesn't have the means to handle a Phantom on it's own (or at least contribute to its death with other teammates), then you're doing it wrong. They're the only threatening enemy in the Cerberus faction, next to Turrets.

A Paladin essentially contributes to the team immensely. It can eat an entire clip of Cerberus turrets so your team can focus-fire it, basic troopers can be handled with if you know your parameters, Atlas' will prioritize the enemy in front of them, so you can simply hold off fire while your team decimates it (the option of fleeing is always their).

Phantoms on the other hand, can sync-kill you through your shield, completely negate most powers and honestly don't care how many times you drain their barriers (due to hiding). If I can contribute to the team while dishing out immense damage to enemies, but a Phantom is "guys I gotta go bye" I feel that a small balance change would suffice. (I was using the Claymore by the way with an increasingly decent amount of reload-cancels)

Modifié par Inabstract, 23 septembre 2012 - 06:19 .

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Air Quotes wrote...

Phantom defenders will respond to your agument like this: "Hey you can make her do that bubble stance and then headshot her, thus making one of the biggest strenghts of hers, her biggest weakness" 

But it doesn't really work like that doesn't it? She still gains insane ammounts of DR. 

Except it routinely gets bugged along with her DR from her dodge so it doesn't work that way.

[OblivionDawn]

Inabstract wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Inabstract wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Phantoms are cannon fodder on every difficulty. They're fine as long as you have situational awareness.

If anything on Cerberus needs balancing, it's a Centurion's melee range.

This is with specific builds/weapons. A Phantom as cannon fodder is inaccurate, troopers, centurions, guardians are the fodder in the Cerberus faction.

Phantoms will infiltrate behind you or lead the group in some cases. Most times a lone Phantom is an annoyance to an team doing a hack or trying to change up tactics. A multiple amount of Phantoms will either end the wave, or make your rate of deaths increase.

My suggestion isn't unreasonable and wouldn't hurt them that much at all, it would simply put them back as Phantoms, not living tanks that can infiltrate or take an entire teams barrage of ammo.

If you're fighting Cerberus with a build that doesn't have the means to handle a Phantom on it's own (or at least contribute to its death with other teammates), then you're doing it wrong. They're the only threatening enemy in the Cerberus faction, next to Turrets.

A Paladin essentially contributes to the team immensely. It can eat an entire clip of Cerberus turrets so your team can focus-fire it, basic troopers can be handled with if you know your parameters, Atlas' will prioritize the enemy in front of them, so you can simply hold off fire while your team decimates it (the option of fleeing is always their).

Phantoms on the other hand, can sync-kill you through your shield, completely negate most powers and honestly don't care how many times you drain their barriers (due to hiding). If I can contribute to the team while dishing out immense damage to enemies, but a Phantom is "guys I gotta go bye" I feel that a small balance change would suffice. (I was using the Claymore by the way with an increasingly decent amount of reload-cancels)

Paladins are one of the best and most fun classes to dispose of multiple Phantoms with. Simply keep swinging your shield at them until they die. When they melee you, roll back, energy drain them, and keep your shield up until they close in on you again, then smack them again. I usually get multiple Phantom kills with a few swings of the shield.