191 réponses à ce sujet

[hudder92]

seireikhaan wrote...

Got gutted earlier today by a phantom that was laying on the ground and shot straight into an insta-kill animation while I was boredly putting a few rounds into the back of her head. Clever girl...

This is the exact reason that I hate when a human adept is in my game. I hat lash with a passion. They use lash and it pulls them behind you. You think they are dead only to have them pop back up and insta-kill you.

[hudder92]

Her Phase Disruptor pisses me off more than anything else that she does. How can she shoot it so fast and not lose any shields/Barrier at all. How is that fair, and yes the N7 Slayer is a little butt hurt about that.

[Inabstract]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Inabstract wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Inabstract wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Phantoms are cannon fodder on every difficulty. They're fine as long as you have situational awareness.

If anything on Cerberus needs balancing, it's a Centurion's melee range.

This is with specific builds/weapons. A Phantom as cannon fodder is inaccurate, troopers, centurions, guardians are the fodder in the Cerberus faction.

Phantoms will infiltrate behind you or lead the group in some cases. Most times a lone Phantom is an annoyance to an team doing a hack or trying to change up tactics. A multiple amount of Phantoms will either end the wave, or make your rate of deaths increase.

My suggestion isn't unreasonable and wouldn't hurt them that much at all, it would simply put them back as Phantoms, not living tanks that can infiltrate or take an entire teams barrage of ammo.

If you're fighting Cerberus with a build that doesn't have the means to handle a Phantom on it's own (or at least contribute to its death with other teammates), then you're doing it wrong. They're the only threatening enemy in the Cerberus faction, next to Turrets.

A Paladin essentially contributes to the team immensely. It can eat an entire clip of Cerberus turrets so your team can focus-fire it, basic troopers can be handled with if you know your parameters, Atlas' will prioritize the enemy in front of them, so you can simply hold off fire while your team decimates it (the option of fleeing is always their).

Phantoms on the other hand, can sync-kill you through your shield, completely negate most powers and honestly don't care how many times you drain their barriers (due to hiding). If I can contribute to the team while dishing out immense damage to enemies, but a Phantom is "guys I gotta go bye" I feel that a small balance change would suffice. (I was using the Claymore by the way with an increasingly decent amount of reload-cancels)

Paladins are one of the best and most fun classes to dispose of multiple Phantoms with. Simply keep swinging your shield at them until they die. When they melee you, roll back, energy drain them, and keep your shield up until they close in on you again, then smack them again. I usually get multiple Phantom kills with a few swings of the shield.

You have to account shield gate/health gate. They will bombard you with palm-blasters first, and i've heard their is a cooldown between the gates we have (energy drain will not work if shot at consistently). Meleeing them to death isn't really the most viable way of killing them (IMO) but it does work in ways. The shield will stageer them, but at times they will simply start firing.

If you set up your shield to deflect, regardless of if you roll out of the way your at an disadvantage. This is only with one Phantom by the way. Think of basic troopers like a Guardian or Centurion either behind or in front of you. They will give cover-fire to a Phantom while your distracted taking her out. If she took a higher amount of damage while gaining her DR it would (at a higher rate) allow more breathing room. While she hides somewhere, you have enough time to finish off the troopers and slowly plan how you could kill her.

Cerberus would still be regarded as a threat though, they simply wouldn't have multiple *Phantom tanks* running around everywhere killing the unsuspecting.

[tonnactus]

Phantoms are the only minibosses that players could crowd control. A Gps,Scorpion or Falcon does the job of staggering them really good. Stasis Bubble make them completly harmless. They are easy enough.

[Cyonan]

tonnactus wrote...
Phantoms are the only minibosses that players could crowd control. A Gps,Scorpion or Falcon does the job of staggering them really good. Stasis Bubble make them completly harmless. They are easy enough.

The problem is that no other higher tier enemy has that much of a variance on how hard they are to handle based on what ability/gun you have. Yes some things are more effective against say, a Banshee, but nothing hard counters it except a Cobra Missile.

Combined with the fact that I think the rest of Cerberus lacks killing power, I would say that they're investing too much in the Phantom doing everything for them that I wouldn't mind seeing her toned down a little in favour of another unit picking up the slack a bit(not so much a nerf as it is a sidegrade for the entire faction). As I mentioned, the Centurion would be the ideal candidate, as he's pretty much the Cerberus Marauder, only he has nowhere near the damage output that the Marauder does.

Modifié par Cyonan, 23 septembre 2012 - 07:40 .

[Necrotron]

I usually just heavy melee them when they do the flip, works like a charm.

[N7 Assass1n]

N7 Slayer people. N7 Slayer.

[jrm_ayun]

Even enemies are getting ner...... never mind

[Bwnci]

I'll constantly curse the Phantoms, but I don't hate them. I get more fustrated with the damage they deal, than the damage they take. Don't get the wrong idea, I know the damage they can ignore with their circus act is bonkers, but they're cyber ninjas! If any enemies going to dance circles round you it's got to be them. I like the pressure this puts on me and the challenge it brings to the game.

I do not like whatever the hell they got flying out of their palm though. The cosmic **** slap sounds like a dart, has the visual presence of a freckle, and shreds more severely than the arm-mounted cannon and missile launcher of a gargantuan mech combined. It's one thing to cartwheel to victory, but don't pea-shoot me to death at the same time. That's just insulting.

I'm not "doing anything wrong" either, half of the time I'm just doing something different. Pull your head out of your arse and you might gain some awareness. Yes there are plenty of ways to dispatch of Phantoms quickly, usually centered around keeping her off her feet. However there are also plenty, if not more elements of the game that cannot do that. In these situations you will find that you can take down an Atlas a great deal faster.

Does this mean we need to lower her damage reduction abilities, or do we simply need to compose better teams? I'm all for a co-op game inspiring more teamwork, but prehaps the figures could use some tweaking so that a talavilasitam karana can't be used to ignore a point blank shot from a Claymore.

Ultimately I'd hate to see the Phantoms lose their edge but wouldn't mind them being brought back to Earth. I think reducing her damage output and distributing it nicely between her friends would be a great way to do that.

[LuckyBullet95]

Aphid32 wrote...

Phantoms and Turrets are really all Cerberus has going for them IMHO so its fine. At least to me.

That's more reason to nerf the Phantom, it's horrible game design to have only one official enemy of a faction being remotely dangerous. The entire game needs a rebalance. Phantoms need nerfed (slightly) allowing for heavy buffs to Centurion and Nemese and slight buffs to the Engineer and ATLAS. Cerberus Turret could also do with either lower health or more xp/budget expense.

[tonnactus]

Cyonan wrote...


Combined with the fact that I think the rest of Cerberus lacks killing power, I would say that they're investing too much in the Phantom doing everything for them that I wouldn't mind seeing her toned down a little in favour of another unit picking up the slack a bit(not so much a nerf as it is a sidegrade for the entire faction). As I mentioned, the Centurion would be the ideal candidate, as he's pretty much the Cerberus Marauder, only he has nowhere near the damage output that the Marauder does.

No. Centurion has smoke grenades for distraction and also throws frag grenades(far more often then Assault Troopers).
Actually the Nemesis should stay true to her name.(and reducing the damage of the Phantoms Phase Disruptor as a balance)
Or introduce something like an elite Nemesis that fires three shots in short time like the Ravager.

[Cyonan]

tonnactus wrote...
No. Centurion has smoke grenades for distraction and also throws frag grenades(far more often then Assault Troopers).
Actually the Nemesis should stay true to her name.(and reducing the damage of the Phantoms Phase Disruptor as a balance)
Or introduce something like an elite Nemesis that fires three shots in short time like the Ravager.

Smoke Grenades are more of an annoyance than they are a distraction. and the most dangerous thing about frag grenades is the indicator bugging out and not showing up.

Nemsis is good at dropping your shields and pinning you down, while the Centurion doesn't seem to do that amazing at anything except annoying you with grenade spam(How does Cerberus manage to get that many grenades, anyway?)

Though if the rumours of the next DLC are true, there will be new units for the existing factions. which for Cerberus should be a unit with high killing power, in my opinion.

[shivyshivy]

Not sure if it was said before, but the Scorpion is anti-Phantom. I always equip Scorpion with Pistol ULM before facing Cerberus on Gold.

[Guglio08]

Why are people so insistent that the Phantom is fine when she does other units' jobs better than they do? Her DR is more protective than a Guardian's shield, her Phase Disruptor is more powerful than a Nemesis shot, she can cloak, she can negate powers (which some characters have to use extensively)... ugh.

After this, I'm never playing another BioWare MP game.

[ACID343211]

Inabstract wrote...

Seriously though, their DR is way too much when they do that little flip.

Claymore X + AP ammo IV and shotgun rail amp III wrecks everything. With the paladin's Snap Freeze, even more so. Every Cerberus enemy can be sniped with Smart Choke, yet at point-blank range Phantom's lose only 2-3 bars of Barrier and Health.

Even more annoying is the fact that they seem to instantly know when your about to shoot. I'm not sure what the DR is for *Phantom gymnastics* but it's much too high. An atlas is essentially easier to kill than a Phantom at this point... (not in terms of speed)

I disgree with you 100 %

[Epique Phael767]

Guglio08 wrote...

Why are people so insistent that the Phantom is fine when she does other units' jobs better than they do? Her DR is more protective than a Guardian's shield, her Phase Disruptor is more powerful than a Nemesis shot, she can cloak, she can negate powers (which some characters have to use extensively)... ugh.

After this, I'm never playing another BioWare MP game.

If tehy removed a few of her abilities she would be fine. ATM she has equivalents of cloak, phase disruptor, power invulnerability, shadow strike (sans invisibility), and increased mobility. If a player could do all of this, people would whine that it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

ATM:

troopers< players
nemesis< players
centurion< players
atlas< players
Phantoms >>>>>>>> players.

[Parallax Demon]

ACID343211 wrote...

Inabstract wrote...

Seriously though, their DR is way too much when they do that little flip.

Claymore X + AP ammo IV and shotgun rail amp III wrecks everything. With the paladin's Snap Freeze, even more so. Every Cerberus enemy can be sniped with Smart Choke, yet at point-blank range Phantom's lose only 2-3 bars of Barrier and Health.

Even more annoying is the fact that they seem to instantly know when your about to shoot. I'm not sure what the DR is for *Phantom gymnastics* but it's much too high. An atlas is essentially easier to kill than a Phantom at this point... (not in terms of speed)

I disgree with you 100 %

Will you please tell us why you disagree?

From my own experience today. Playing U/U/G and ended up with Cerberus on Rio (yeah ). I was playing a GI, fully specced for damage. On round 7 I see a moving Phantom nearby which isn't focussed on me. So I cloak, proxi mine and empty a complete clip from my Piranha from point blank range.
Result; three Barriers bars of the Phantom. You'll probably will know what happened afterwards

And yes; I can aim and the Piranha was equipped with a Smart Choke.

[MaxShine]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

They DON'T NEED to flip or use barrier hand. All they have to do is move to gain 80-90% damage reduction. And that is so BS it's not even funny.

You know... THAT is BS.

This is not really BS. Do not get me wrong, I like the phantoms to stay as they are because I think it is fun to fight phanoms. But there is an issue with the damage they take when they move, especially the damage taken from some shotguns or from the Talon. Some people say that is due to 'unlucky' pellet spread, but it has not been clarified completely. I noticed when I hit them with the Cerberus Harrier (or Reegar) when they move the damage seems to be ok.

I think I figured how this inconsistent damage against moving phantoms works. As I said before I observed this problem only with shotguns. I was lucky enough to capture one of those strange shots against a phantom on video today. I watched the vid after the game and I saw how these shots happen:

When I fired the phantom was running towards me. I directly hit  her (headshot) with a cloaked Claymore shot (AP ammo IV + SA III + shotgun gear). The shot removed three bars of her barrier. Why did this happen? Only in the video I saw video that she directly started her cartwheel after the hit. So I guess only the first pellet actually hit her while moving and the rest was 'absorbed' by her cartwheel.

Then after another shot she was down to three bars of her barrier. This time I hit her while she was firing her palm blaster, she did not manage to switch to the cartwheel animation and instantly dropped dead.

So I guess the problem is that when you hit her with a weapon that fires pellets not all pellets hit at the same time and the phantom has the ability to directly switch to the cartwheel after the first pellet his absorbing the remaining ones...

[Jackville Assington]

I am behind this tread 100% *raises fist in the air*

[Rifneno]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Phantoms are an incredible failure of internal balancing. I've never quite seen anything like it in any game I've ever played. They are so game-breaking that it goes into the realm of legend, and yet we have players who will religiously say "lrn2plyfgt" as if the people making complaints do not have valid arguments.

Let me spell things out: Any enemy that operates by completely invalidating most characters' abilities is badly-designed. Any enemy that is capable of doing not only this, but completely ignoring oncoming enemy fire is far worse, and goes into terribly badly designed. An enemy capable of doing all of these, plus instantly killing you and three-shotting the heaviest classes in the game? That falls into the territory of worst-designed enemy in the history of games.

See, as a game designer, I've done work on enemies in the past. An enemy that can invalidate a player's abilities isn't necessarily bad if it has other aspects which round it out.

A Beholder in Dungeons and Dragons, to coin an example, can't use its other eyes' lasers on you if you're in the area of the anti-magic cone in produces from its main eye. In other words, it has to shut off the anti-magic gaze to fire its hate-lasers, ergo making its biggest advantage also one of its biggest weaknesses. If it shuts off the main eye to fire off its eyebeams, enemies get their magic abilities right the hell back, and can rain serious punishment on the damned thing.

A Phantom, however, does it all, and is thus an utter failure of enemy design and balance.

This.  It's just facepalm that people defend the over-the-top brokenness of phantoms.  Is the game bugged on whatever platform they're using and phantoms aren't retarded there, or do they just get their jollies trolling forums and going "lulz l2p n00b"?

I liked that story of headshotting a phantom with a javelin and it losing 2 bars of health.  I got a similar fun one.  Destroyer with multi-frags maxed out on bringing the pain.  Popped 5 grenades in her face, point blank range.  She lost 2 bars of barriers.  Two bars of barriers.  Anybody who thinks that's fine should get a CAT scan.

"But they're the only boss that you can CC!"

OF COURSE THEY ARE!  THEY'RE THE ONLY ONE YOU NEED TO!  Any other one you can just kite all day long.  Phantoms are the only ones that can keep up with a player and whose damage is hard to avoid.

"All you need is stasis/scorpion/falcon/ect. ect."

Yeah, that stuff will protect you from one phantom.  Good luck holding off the other three while you wait for the cooldown on those countermeasures.  But let me ask you this: what other unit in the game requires special equipment or powers to deal with?  What other enemy can't be easily dealt with by just some guy with a gun?  Banshees?  Primes?  Hunters?  Pyros?  Brutes?  Atlases?  Nothing.  No other enemy in the game requires you to have some pre-determined setup to deal with one.  Including the enemies that you'll only ever see two of at a time, unlike phantoms.  Kind of cramps that whole "random" thing, doesn't it?

[the_last_krogan]

quit the whining what is this a quarian infirmary...just hit phantoms hard with everything you got