AlanC9 wrote...
LucasShark wrote...
Then pick a sacrafice storyarc if you feel it's the best one. I don't see how the existence of a more uplifting ending elsewhere makes that one less relevant.
Because unnecessary sacrifice is a silly mistake.
mjb203 wrote...
So meta-game instead of roleplay? Makes sense for a role-playing game.
Modifié par AlanC9, 23 septembre 2012 - 09:29 .
AlanC9 wrote...
mjb203 wrote...
So meta-game instead of roleplay? Makes sense for a role-playing game.
Depends on what the choices facing my character are.
Are you proposing that Bio present fake choices like Redcliffe in DA:O? Where there's supposedly a risk, but it actually isn't one since it always works out fine?
Well, OK, that works for RPing either choice. But I've had enough of Bio pulling that one. I loathed that aspect of DA:O.
Nightwriter wrote...
People continue to say that the mere existence of an ending that would make me happy is a threat to their personal ease of play. This is lame. You are LAME, sirs and madams.
BioWare has satisfied us both in the past. It really isn't hard. I'm tired of hearing that the only way for me to get the good feelz is for you to feel stupid. It's crap. Crapola. Crappalingalong. Crappa dappa doo. It's a crap candle sticking in a crap cake.
Nightwriter wrote...
People continue to say that the mere existence of an ending that would make me happy is a threat to their personal ease of play. This is lame. You are LAME, sirs and madams.
BioWare has satisfied us both in the past. It really isn't hard. I'm tired of hearing that the only way for me to get the good feelz is for you to feel stupid. It's crap. Crapola. Crappalingalong. Crappa dappa doo. It's a crap candle sticking in a crap cake.
mjb203 wrote...
AlanC9 wrote...
mjb203 wrote...
So meta-game instead of roleplay? Makes sense for a role-playing game.
Depends on what the choices facing my character are.
Are you proposing that Bio present fake choices like Redcliffe in DA:O? Where there's supposedly a risk, but it actually isn't one since it always works out fine?
Well, OK, that works for RPing either choice. But I've had enough of Bio pulling that one. I loathed that aspect of DA:O.
Well, it doesn't have to work out as a fake choice. The Catalyst could still present the choices as is, but perhaps instead of shooting the tube in Destroy/jumping into the Synthesis beam/grabbing the Control rods, Shep could find a control panel and rig the Crucible to fire depending on the choice he made (i.e.: what end of the choices he walked toward).
It wouldn't necessarily be based on a dialog choice, but a selectable object that appears if a high enough EMS is acheived. And if you don't want to go the "no sacrifice" route, you could continue on to the choices as originally presented.
Nightwriter wrote...
People continue to say that the mere existence of an ending that would make me happy is a threat to their personal ease of play. This is lame. You are LAME, sirs and madams.
BioWare has satisfied us both in the past. It really isn't hard. I'm tired of hearing that the only way for me to get the good feelz is for you to feel stupid. It's crap. Crapola. Crappalingalong. Crappa dappa doo. It's a crap candle sticking in a crap cake.
Netsfn1427 wrote...
mjb203 wrote...
AlanC9 wrote...
mjb203 wrote...
So meta-game instead of roleplay? Makes sense for a role-playing game.
Depends on what the choices facing my character are.
Are you proposing that Bio present fake choices like Redcliffe in DA:O? Where there's supposedly a risk, but it actually isn't one since it always works out fine?
Well, OK, that works for RPing either choice. But I've had enough of Bio pulling that one. I loathed that aspect of DA:O.
Well, it doesn't have to work out as a fake choice. The Catalyst could still present the choices as is, but perhaps instead of shooting the tube in Destroy/jumping into the Synthesis beam/grabbing the Control rods, Shep could find a control panel and rig the Crucible to fire depending on the choice he made (i.e.: what end of the choices he walked toward).
It wouldn't necessarily be based on a dialog choice, but a selectable object that appears if a high enough EMS is acheived. And if you don't want to go the "no sacrifice" route, you could continue on to the choices as originally presented.
But wouldn't that just result in most people meta gaming anyway? If the ending was hard to achieve most people won't get it on their first shot. They'll only find out about it after the fact, look up how to do it and then follow the instructions. It's some sort of meta gaming, role playing mix, where people are meta gaming to get their ideal scenario for their role play.
If you want to role play, there's nothing stopping you from role playing right now. Role playing isn't getting to rewrite the story to fit the ending you want, it's playing role in a given situation. If the given situation is four choices with major positives and major negatives, then it's up to you to play the role based on how you see fit.
Nightwriter wrote...
People continue to say that the mere existence of an ending that would make me happy is a threat to their personal ease of play. This is lame. You are LAME, sirs and madams.
BioWare has satisfied us both in the past. It really isn't hard. I'm tired of hearing that the only way for me to get the good feelz is for you to feel stupid. It's crap. Crapola. Crappalingalong. Crappa dappa doo. It's a crap candle sticking in a crap cake.
Netsfn1427 wrote...
And Bioware doesn't have to satisfy you this time. They chose to go in a different direction. Sometimes, stories don't end the way you want them to. You don't like it? Write your own story and then end it as you please.
Netsfn1427 wrote...
Nightwriter wrote...
People continue to say that the mere existence of an ending that would make me happy is a threat to their personal ease of play. This is lame. You are LAME, sirs and madams.
BioWare has satisfied us both in the past. It really isn't hard. I'm tired of hearing that the only way for me to get the good feelz is for you to feel stupid. It's crap. Crapola. Crappalingalong. Crappa dappa doo. It's a crap candle sticking in a crap cake.
And Bioware doesn't have to satisfy you this time. They chose to go in a different direction. Sometimes, stories don't end the way you want them to. You don't like it? Write your own story and then end it as you please.
Modifié par iakus, 23 septembre 2012 - 10:06 .
Bester76 wrote...
Netsfn1427 wrote...
And Bioware doesn't have to satisfy you this time. They chose to go in a different direction. Sometimes, stories don't end the way you want them to. You don't like it? Write your own story and then end it as you please.
Not exactly smart, considering that they're hoping we'll all pick up ME4.
mjb203 wrote...
The bolded is a fair enough statement. However, with that being said, what is being discussed here is WHY wasn't the option presented? With the presence of the "Shepard breathing" scene being obtainable in high EMS destroy, why not include it for Control and Synthesis as well? Why does the beam differentiate from geth/EDI and Reapers in Control, but not in Destroy? Why have the sacrifice just to have a sacrifice? Hasn't Shepard and co. sacrificed enough at this point?
Netsfn1427 wrote...
mjb203 wrote...
The bolded is a fair enough statement. However, with that being said, what is being discussed here is WHY wasn't the option presented? With the presence of the "Shepard breathing" scene being obtainable in high EMS destroy, why not include it for Control and Synthesis as well? Why does the beam differentiate from geth/EDI and Reapers in Control, but not in Destroy? Why have the sacrifice just to have a sacrifice? Hasn't Shepard and co. sacrificed enough at this point?
Well, the only ending Shep could have survived is destroy, since he's vaporized in the other two.
Why does the beam differentiate? I can't answer that for certain. There could have been something in the Reaper code that allowed them to be controlled, that doesn't exist with EDI and the Geth. For example if the Reapers have two pieces of code, we'll call it XY. EDI and the Geth just have X. Destroy targets X, so all are affected. Control targets only Y, so only the Reapers are affected.
It's speculation on my part, but the point is it's certainly possible.
A major theme of the game was sacrifice. Every mission in the game involves loss and sacrifice. It's there from the beginning; sacrificing Earth to gather forces, then sacrificing Palavan, trading the Krogan for the Salarians or potentially visa versa. In fact, the only time you escape it is with the Geth/Quarians and even then you lose Legion.
I understand that people had enough of the sacrifice. But Bioware decided that they'd continue the theme to the end. It fits in the story, whether it is liked or not. Besides, it isn't all bad times. After listening throughout the game about how much everyone is suffering and the realization that everyone will be wiped out if we don't succeed, I felt pretty good when I beat the game again last night. I mean the galaxy was saved, billions survived when they would have died and my party (except EDI) all got out without getting killed. Given what Shep faced, can't really complain with that result.
iakus wrote...
Netsfn1427 wrote...
Nightwriter wrote...
People continue to say that the mere existence of an ending that would make me happy is a threat to their personal ease of play. This is lame. You are LAME, sirs and madams.
BioWare has satisfied us both in the past. It really isn't hard. I'm tired of hearing that the only way for me to get the good feelz is for you to feel stupid. It's crap. Crapola. Crappalingalong. Crappa dappa doo. It's a crap candle sticking in a crap cake.
And Bioware doesn't have to satisfy you this time. They chose to go in a different direction. Sometimes, stories don't end the way you want them to. You don't like it? Write your own story and then end it as you please.
"I'm happy so STFU"
Or may, just maybe, in a game where our chocies are supposed to matter, and there are multiple endings to that dotry, maybe one of them could actually reflect our preferences.
What, not artistic enough?
mjb203 wrote...
Bester76 wrote...
Netsfn1427 wrote...
And Bioware doesn't have to satisfy you this time. They chose to go in a different direction. Sometimes, stories don't end the way you want them to. You don't like it? Write your own story and then end it as you please.
Not exactly smart, considering that they're hoping we'll all pick up ME4.
Pretty much. Sure, Bioware doesn't HAVE to satisfy us, but it would probably be in their best interest to keep the loyal fan following they have, since we sure don't have to buy their product.
Netsfn1427 wrote...
Well, the only ending Shep could have survived is destroy, since he's vaporized in the other two.
Why does the beam differentiate? I can't answer that for certain. There could have been something in the Reaper code that allowed them to be controlled, that doesn't exist with EDI and the Geth. For example if the Reapers have two pieces of code, we'll call it XY. EDI and the Geth just have X. Destroy targets X, so all are affected. Control targets only Y, so only the Reapers are affected.
It's speculation on my part, but the point is it's certainly possible.
A major theme of the game was sacrifice. Every mission in the game involves loss and sacrifice. It's there from the beginning; sacrificing Earth to gather forces, then sacrificing Palavan, trading the Krogan for the Salarians or potentially visa versa. In fact, the only time you escape it is with the Geth/Quarians and even then you lose Legion.
I understand that people had enough of the sacrifice. But Bioware decided that they'd continue the theme to the end. It fits in the story, whether it is liked or not. Besides, it isn't all bad times. After listening throughout the game about how much everyone is suffering and the realization that everyone will be wiped out if we don't succeed, I felt pretty good when I beat the game again last night. I mean the galaxy was saved, billions survived when they would have died and my party (except EDI) all got out without getting killed. Given what Shep faced, can't really complain with that result.
Netsfn1427 wrote...
The choice system, especially in a trilogy with a relatively streamlined plot, was always going to be limited. And it still ended up with more variety in the story than prior Bioware games.
iakus wrote...
Netsfn1427 wrote...
Well, the only ending Shep could have survived is destroy, since he's vaporized in the other two.
Why does the beam differentiate? I can't answer that for certain. There could have been something in the Reaper code that allowed them to be controlled, that doesn't exist with EDI and the Geth. For example if the Reapers have two pieces of code, we'll call it XY. EDI and the Geth just have X. Destroy targets X, so all are affected. Control targets only Y, so only the Reapers are affected.
It's speculation on my part, but the point is it's certainly possible.
A major theme of the game was sacrifice. Every mission in the game involves loss and sacrifice. It's there from the beginning; sacrificing Earth to gather forces, then sacrificing Palavan, trading the Krogan for the Salarians or potentially visa versa. In fact, the only time you escape it is with the Geth/Quarians and even then you lose Legion.
I understand that people had enough of the sacrifice. But Bioware decided that they'd continue the theme to the end. It fits in the story, whether it is liked or not. Besides, it isn't all bad times. After listening throughout the game about how much everyone is suffering and the realization that everyone will be wiped out if we don't succeed, I felt pretty good when I beat the game again last night. I mean the galaxy was saved, billions survived when they would have died and my party (except EDI) all got out without getting killed. Given what Shep faced, can't really complain with that result.
Shepard is only vaporized in the other two because Bioware chose to vaporize Shepard. Is there any reason given why a blood sample wouldn't do for the space magic beam rather than tossing in the whole Shepard?
The whole sacrifice theme is unique to ME3. While there were sacrifices in the previous two games, the theme has been more about beating the odds, overcoming impossible odds and living to tell the tale. Everthting from Shepard's preservice history to the Suicide Mission in ME2. Bit for some reasons, ME3 decided to turn Shepard from a live hero to a dead messiah because reason.
Its not even that EDI and the geth die that bugs me. It's that their death is so meaningless. their hostages to the story and nothing more. They don't die doing something heroic like Mordin. They don't get a final farewell speech like Anderson. They just...die... and are discarded like so much rubbish
Even as hostages, their deaths are ineffective, as people overwhelmingly choose Destroy anyway.
Bioware seriously overplayed the sacrifice issue. And doubled down on it in EC. They can't seem to understand that we play this game to be entertained. And if you piule the misery and sacrifice too high, the story stops being entertaining. The game stops being fun. And the next thing you know people stop buying your products and start looking for the next Kickstarter project to back...
Modifié par mjb203, 23 septembre 2012 - 10:21 .
iakus wrote...
Shepard is only vaporized in the other two because Bioware chose to vaporize Shepard. Is there any reason given why a blood sample wouldn't do for the space magic beam rather than tossing in the whole Shepard?
AlanC9 wrote...
iakus wrote...
Shepard is only vaporized in the other two because Bioware chose to vaporize Shepard. Is there any reason given why a blood sample wouldn't do for the space magic beam rather than tossing in the whole Shepard?
It isn't looking for his DNA. It's looking for his "energy." Live by space magic, die by space magic.
Modifié par iakus, 23 septembre 2012 - 10:27 .
mjb203 wrote...
I've got to agree with iakus, the major theme has been overcoming impossible odds and living to tell the tale. Much more so than sacrifice (i.e.: the fact you can get out of the suicide mission with no casualites).
iakus wrote...
AlanC9 wrote...
iakus wrote...
Shepard is only vaporized in the other two because Bioware chose to vaporize Shepard. Is there any reason given why a blood sample wouldn't do for the space magic beam rather than tossing in the whole Shepard?
It isn't looking for his DNA. It's looking for his "energy." Live by space magic, die by space magic.
The thing already has enough energy to destroy every synthetic life form and much of the advanced technology in the galaxy. The backfire alone can destroy a planet. What's the "energy" of one human going to add to it?
This isn't helping the "sacrifice" make any more sense.
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