65 réponses à ce sujet

[Pedrak]

Now that we still have a lot of time ahead, let's say this... and not just because of the ME3 brouhaha. Video games as a medium have a long history of disappointing, rushed endings to good or even great games. And Bio in particular. Baldur's Gate 1&2, KOTOR, the ME series...

So: for DA3, please, make awesome endings. No bloody cliffhangers - a few loose threads if you need them, but there must be enough sense of closure to make the ending satisfying. No damn slideshows. No five seconds "LOL, you win!" or "er, the protagonist was never seen again" epilogue. 

Make interesting cutscenes. Since so much effort is put into making games "cinematic" (even more so than necessary, see full voice acting) , we might as well borrow this positive quality from movies: a good, cinematic epilogue. Don't WRITE "And the Inquisitor walked off into the sunset", SHOW him/her doing so. Maybe a cutscene with a montage SHOWING what happens to various characters/people. A bit of style, please.
And no slideshows. Did I say that already? Well, one last time. NO SLIDESHOWS.

Maybe you could go for something opposite to the "Origins" in DA3: you get, for the very last part of the game (let's say the last 20 minutes), 3-4 completely different last acts, with different locations, enemies, and dialogues for the climax. That would be cool, if difficult to do.

But at the very least, make the epilogue(s) worth it.

Modifié par Pedrak, 23 septembre 2012 - 07:26 .

[Pelle6666]

After ME3? They won't make that mistake again.

[Pedrak]

Pelle6666 wrote...

After ME3? They won't make that mistake again.

Maybe, but I'm afraid after ME3 we might get saccharine, "perfect" endings, but still unsatisfying from many other point of views (cliffhangers, slideshows).

[Paul E Dangerously]

What's wrong with slideshows? Fallout 2 has a better ending - and probably more of them - thanks to this than any other RPG I can even think of. DAO handled it just fine, too.

[Pedrak]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

What's wrong with slideshows? Fallout 2 has a better ending - and probably more of them - thanks to this than any other RPG I can even think of. DAO handled it just fine, too.

They feel narratively inconsistent with the (now) mainly cinematic tone of the games. If we get a deluge of cutscenes while playing the game (even taking the control of the scene away from the player, see the Kai Leng duels in ME3), they might as well make the effort to give us a compelling cinematic epilogue, showing what slideshows usually tell - the epilogue is actually a better place for long cutscenes than the rest of the game, I'd argue. 

Modifié par Pedrak, 23 septembre 2012 - 07:33 .

[Iakus]

Pedrak wrote...

Pelle6666 wrote...

After ME3? They won't make that mistake again.

Maybe, but I'm afraid after ME3 we might get saccharine, "perfect" endings, but still unsatisfying from many other point of views (cliffhangers, slideshows).

There's nothing wrong with "perfect" endings any more than there's anyhting wrong with tragic endings.  What's wrong is getting railroaded towards a particular ending. Particularly tragic ones, since they are already less popular (like what happened in ME3).  I myself am a fan of Earn Your Happy Ending.  Yes you can have one, but you have to work for it.

Over and over again DAO has been cited as as doing ending choices right.  It really does reflect your choices.  Happy or sad, it's up to you.

And there's nothing wrong with ending slides showing the long-term consdequences for your actions.  The problem here is in the Dragon Age series, what ending slides say has proven to be meaningless.

Modifié par iakus, 23 septembre 2012 - 08:15 .

[Dubozz]

damn right

[Wulfram]

Nothing wrong with slideshows. Not when they're in addition to cool cinematic stuff for the end of the game, rather than instead of. But the way they've been consistently contradicted since then does take away a lot of their interest.

DA:O's ending would have been fine without them, anyway. Cool cutscene of Archdemon slaying, coronation, then funeral or final chat with your companions. That works fine.  edit:  Though the epilogue slides are still pretty valuable for dead wardens, to give you an idea of what the companions might do next which you don't get so much without the opportunity for a final talk.

Modifié par Wulfram, 23 septembre 2012 - 07:49 .

[Pedrak]

Wulfram wrote...
:  Though the epilogue slides are still pretty valuable for dead wardens, to give you an idea of what the companions might do next which you don't get so much without the opportunity for a final talk.

I'd argue that a montage of cutscenes SHOWING what they were up to would have been even better. Show, don't tell.

Modifié par Pedrak, 23 septembre 2012 - 07:54 .

[PaulSX]

My problem with ME3's endings is they are really not that different from each other. I would like something similar to Jade empire's. we would have one hero ending which is a truly epic, an evil ending that is disgracefully evil and a neutral ending that lays the hope on the future.

[gangly369]

In my experience, fantasy and/or science fiction stories always have bad endings, both in games and books. They just don't appeal to me because they usual have some type of ending in which everything always works out, some magic makes everything better, or none of the characters die. That's not to say every single story ends like this (Steven Erickson and his Malazan: Book of the Fallen series for example), but in general I have come to expect that most endings in this genre are gonna disappoint me in some fashion.

That being said, it's not like the writers sit down and say "Ok, how can we make this the most craptastic ending ever?'
'Let's not include griffons!'
'Oh hohoho you are so devilish writer #2, excellent thinking!'
It's a given that they are gonna try and make a good ending so making this type of thread seems kind of pointless to me. If they have the time and resources, I'm sure that the ending will be something that a large majority of players will like (being optimistic on the BSN forums. Shocking I know)

[Little Princess Peach]

I agree with you Op but the problem is Bioware can't please everybody at least 40% of the fan base will Boo it.

Because it was to happy to sad to this that or the other, The only thing they can do is what Bioware can do and thats half the time good work granted DA2's ending was just well it ended '
Da:o had the fake Epilouge and one of the devs said it was just rumors.

[Pedrak]

gangly369 wrote...

It's a given that they are gonna try and make a good ending so making this type of thread seems kind of pointless to me. If they have the time and resources, I'm sure that the ending will be something that a large majority of players will like (being optimistic on the BSN forums. Shocking I know)

It's not a given, considering the precedents, that the ending(s) will not be rushed or a cliffhanger. In fact... it would be quite a novelty.

But I see what you did here. Many video games endings are poor , most Bio endings are rushed, their last one was regarded as something of a fiasco, but there's no doubt DA3's will be good, making the very discussion of it pointless. I like your thinking!

Modifié par Pedrak, 23 septembre 2012 - 08:10 .

[Zeralos]

Make it worth fighting for.

[Vandicus]

suntzuxi wrote...

My problem with ME3's endings is they are really not that different from each other. I would like something similar to Jade empire's. we would have one hero ending which is a truly epic, an evil ending that is disgracefully evil and a neutral ending that lays the hope on the future.

The ending of ME3, in terms of differences were rather similar to DA:O. DA:O ending is the choice between ultimate sacrifice and dark ritual, while ME3 chooses between two sacrifice endings and one survival ending. The "true" ending of the series is determined by all the choices along the way, did the Korgan genophage get cured, are humans leading the galaxy or is it a unified multi-species front, and so on and so forth(though ME3 does not use epilogue text to elaborate on how these turned out).

My personal issue with ME3's ending is that it was nonsensical in execution, and clashes narratively with the theme of "we destroy them or they destroy us". Beyond the faulty logic of the controller AI(wipe out life to preserve life, as well as its determination that Shepard's presence changes the viability of its "solution" when it can easily be accounted for in future cycles), the operation of the Crucible(stick hands into electric current, jump in energy beam, shoot pipe), the very conversation held with the star child conflicts with everything that the protagonist has been shown up to this point. Not 20 seconds before, Shepard has his dramatic showdown in which he reaffirms that the only option is to destroy the reapers. Suddenly the player is presented with new options(at the very end of the game) that are portrayed as better than the option that has been pushed as the only practical solution(everyone who is convinced that working with Reapers is a possibility previously is demonstrated as being wrong/indoctrinated). But no, Shepard is so special snowflake that he can take Saren and TIM's paths without a hitch. Shepard goes straight into Mary Sue territory there. Its not OK when anyone else does it, but when Shepard does it? Perfectly fine. 

[Get Magna Carter]

Bioware games are not just games, they are also stories.
While, in general endings are not important in a game they are the most important part of a story.

[Versus Omnibus]

Oh please Bioware, don't repeat another ME3 ending....

[Blackrising]

I liked the slideshows of DA:O.
My first Warden sacrificed herself and those sliders made me cry like a baby. Cinematic effects wouldn't have had the same effect because seeing those sliders really felt like they are for later generations. They really made me realize that my Warden is dead.
I find it easier to be truly finished with a playthrough when I'm not bombarded with cinematic scenes till the credits roll.

[Shinobu]

It IS the destination, not just the journey. Don't railroad the players into a bad outcome if they have worked hard to get a better one. (OTOH, if they've done the bare minimum, let them suffer.)

Modifié par Shinobu, 24 septembre 2012 - 12:52 .

[Maverick827]

BioWare, please read my mind and know what ending(s) I would like to your story. I promise you that everyone else will like what I like.

[fchopin]

After the DA2 ending i don't think Bioware knows what an ending is, there is no way they can make a worse ending.

[Allan Schumacher]

This is the first that I've seen that some of BioWare's earlier games had poor endings too.

[FaeQueenCory]

At the very least.... I would like to have the ending slides back... DA2 felt so much more abrupt without them.