65 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

I actually loved the text / slide show endings of DAO - don't get me wrong - would have been grand to have in game engine showing these things - but I loved the closure and differences based on choices that it talked about.

..but yeah - like above that Applepie posted - that would kill me. I think I actually sneered at the screen when that came up at the end of ME3.

[Wulfram]

IMO the main thing DA2's ending needed was some sense that, if you sided with the mages, you actually achieved something by doing so. I think this was intended, given Varric's "and many survived" comment, but it doesn't feel like that because there's really nothing that indicates you're achieving anything in game.

Modifié par Wulfram, 24 septembre 2012 - 09:32 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

And please no silly message on scroll after completing the game like the:

The inquisitor has become a legend by ending a templar-mage conflct or civil war in Orlais or whatever...
Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay of downloadable content...

I don't see the problem with this. It's a nice way of telling some people "keep your damned save files because you'll need them later".

Modifié par Sopa de Gato, 24 septembre 2012 - 10:24 .

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I like the slide show........... but still I want no speculation excuse.

[Fast Jimmy]

I am a huge fan of Epilogue Slides. The best endings I have ever encountered were games that had multiple slides that varied wildly depending on your choices and gave either text or voice-over descriptions of how your in-game choices affected the world in which you played (the Fallout series, DA:O, Arcanum).

Some of the most DISAPPOINTING endings were ones that just had a slide show with a voice over that's not describing what happened in the slides at all (Deus Ex: HR, ME3 post-EC), as those slides don't really convey anything without details of what exactly happened. Some the WORST video game endings were all cinematic and left questions about what really happened (ME3 pre-EC, Final Fantasy X). Ambiguity sucks in an ending. Movies can pull it off because we don't control the characters, but a video game, where you spend dozens of hours telling a character every detail of their being, from what they wear to what they say, that then makes us surrender that control to an ending that leaves us wondering what our character just did, what the consequences of those actions were and if they were even beneficial or necessary is a HORRIBLE idea.

I'm not just preaching against the ME3 endings in particular, but rather just giving my perception on how video games should end. Don't leave a player to wonder what just happened once the credits start rolling, or think "why did I just bother playing this game?" when they get done.

[Seth_Holloway]

I'm fine with ambiguity.

Sometimes the less you say, the more powerful the statement.

I just want some beautiful cinematics.

I care about these characters; I don't need to know where they live or what they have for breakfast.

For me personally, knowing too much about my characters future is a bit of a turn off.

I don't want to read - "The warden and Alistair delighted the people of Fereldan and ruled with kindness" .. umm No?.. She didn't ... she was a crazy crazy woman, infact she made Morrigan look friendly... Which is no easy task.


I'd love to see my Rouge on the ocean with Isabella, or my Mage and Zevran tormenting Templars.


I think a brilliant ending would take attributes from decisions through out the series and stitch them into a seemingly unique sequence.

Its like the quest 'Captured' from DA:O, people love it because of how different it can be through each play through with the decisions you make.

[Leoroc]

Not BW, but KotOR2 is an example of terrible ending. Skyrim also (by not having one). I was ok with DAOs ending. The ME3 extended ending was good too, though I woulda liked to know what came of Jack (my LI). DA2's ending would have been fine if Exalted March came out (it was a good lead in) but standalone it is a weak ending.

KotOR had a solid ending, as did ME1 and 2. Some of the TOR endings are fantastic, bounty hunter especially. "You want my services, you'll have to pay like everyone else."

[Beerfish]

I totally agree with the op regarding putting a very high priority and resources on endings. Many many games have unsatisfying endings including Bio Games. ME1 and Me2 were very good ending wise. Throne of Bhaal did it very very right. I do not blame the ME3 ending on lack of resources put into it or lack of effort. It was just very misguided. DA2 ending was not that great.

[Pedrak]

gangly369 wrote...
Having a discussion about it, though, will not change anything whatsoever, because the stuff that factors into making that ending (time and resources) is beyond our reach and, in many cases, the devs as well.

Isn't that true for most of the other topics concerning the game , though? By this reasoning ("our discussions are unlikely to make the difference") we might as well drop all discussions here except for those about minor game design issues or "hide elmet on/off" stuff, which are, realistically, the ones they're more likely to listen to us about.

Modifié par Pedrak, 24 septembre 2012 - 04:00 .

[Zack_Nero]

I doubt that BioWare would willing make the same mistake again, and if they do we will be getting a lot of apologetic dlc again. And if they were to do an ending style, I kinda hope it goes back to Origins, tells what happen after the games. I really liked that.

[Pedrak]

devSin wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This is the first that I've seen that some of BioWare's earlier games had poor endings too.

I very much doubt this, unless you've never been involved in a NWN discussion. :-)

But I think it's been the case that usually you're setting up a sequel or expansion. BG? There are more Bhaalspawn out there, oh noes! BG2? There are more Bhaalspawn out there, oh noes! NWN? There is a toolset! Try it! SoU? And now I shall make myself disappear!

ToB tried to wrap up the BG franchise, and HotU ended that weird story that started in SoU (Deekin!). And I think people generally like those endings, but they're very much caps to their respective series (all of which featured cliffhanger sort of endings for their earlier installments).

I think Jade Empire had a successful ending (it resolved the story it started out to tell, and left the world still relevant), and I loved Origins' ending (Ultimate Sacrifice is probably my all-time favorite video game ending, but I found the other variations enjoyable as well).

ME and ME2 are serviceable, but again, they're clearly meant to be cliffhangers. "Them Reapers is still out there, and we's gonna stop 'em!" Unlike BG and NWN series, though, the final installment had that inexplicably abysmal ending, which really retroactively pulps the endings for the other two (and the stories overall in large part, with the number of inconsistencies and absurdities created by the third).

DA2 also seemed to be a step backward from Origins (which left its world in a state that allowed for an expansion, rather than explicitly setting up a sequel or expansion like BioWare has tended to do). Although it tied off the story being told, it spent relatively little time on it, and it didn't really deign to resolve any of the character threads (although you can't do this completely in an ongoing world, you should still be able to say something about what happens to the people who were thrust into the story).

So I guess the only request I would have is for satisfactory resolution to the story being told. If you're going to be doing an expansion or sequel, don't set it up at the expense of adequate closure for the current story. (I'm not worried about failure on the scale of ME3, not from this team, so I doubt any effort needs to be spent trying to avoid that particular outcome.)

Perfectly put.

[Todd23]

I'd actually like to see a synthesis ending for da3.

[Iakus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

This is the first that I've seen that some of BioWare's earlier games had poor endings too.

Some where better than others.  But all were at least serviceable.

As far as I'm concerned, a decent ending at least provides:

1) Protagonist lives in at least one ending and has a shot at finding happiness after the game

2) End choice has at least one option that doesn't make me feel like a villain for choosing it. 

[Aulis Vaara]

Pedrak wrote...

And no slideshows. Did I say that already? Well, one last time. NO SLIDESHOWS.

Why not? I love slideshows, I think they work perfectly as epilogues. Especially in expansive games with lots of endings with different details.

I'm also a proponent of the combination of both a slideshow and a playable epilogue, like in Origins. Personal closure for your character and companions in the same way that you interacted with them in the game, and then a slideshow for the broader changes to the world of the game.

[CELL55]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

And please no silly message on scroll after completing the game like the:

The inquisitor has become a legend by ending a templar-mage conflct or civil war in Orlais or whatever...
Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay of downloadable content...

How dare you question ARTISTIC INTEGRITY! <_<

[Rpgfantasyplayer]

I enjoyed the way that DA:O ended. It told me what had happened and it differed based on what choices I made on the major quests. That is the type of ending I like. Even though I liked playing DA2 you got only two endings. Your standing there or your walking away. Make the ending reflect what you have chosen to do in the game.