9 réponses à ce sujet

[filetemo]

I always identified a rogue as much more than just a fighting style, for me a rogue is a definition of a lifestyle, more of a thief and a trickster than a fighter.
However in the DA games I feel it just defines your character's fighting skills, aside lockpicking.

I never play rogues in DA games. in DAO they were lighter warriors, in DA2 they are acrobatic ninjas.

For me to flesh out more the rogue class outside of fighting there should be

Stealth missions
Retrieve the relic style missions
Cheating missions (disguise as somebody else, lie to somebody to make them do what you want)
Bonuses to charisma, banter, etc
Lockpicking of course
Chance to join thieves guild of any type. (Rogues are sneaky shadowy types with underground connections, that should be reflected somehow) I want to feel like I'm a survivor, a dude from the bottom of the barrel who was raised in a rough environment who kept going thanks to his tongue, his ability and a hidden dagger on his boot. It didn't really made much sense that a noble Cousland was instructed in the arts of backstabbing and lockpicking.

And from there you could specialize: assassin for hire or party support thief-trickster.

Please expand the rogues in DA3 so you can really feel like a rogue at all times, not just in combat.Being a rogue is a way of life, not just a martial skill.

[panamakira]

This is one of the things perhaps wasn't executed at best in Mark of the Assassin but had lots of potential. The option for rogues to resolve conflicts using stealth and such. I don't want a Skyrim copy which (joining a Guild ^ sounds like, kind of unnecessary in a DA game. There's always bigger conflicts to be dealt with than joining a Guild) but something that put effects other rogue-like skills.

[Wulfram]

filetemo wrote...

Stealth missions

They don't work well except in games built specially for them.  And don't fit at all well with a party based game

Retrieve the relic style missions
Cheating missions (disguise as somebody else, lie to somebody to make them do what you want)

OK.  Though other classes should be able to lie, and generally have other ways of achieving the same things

Bonuses to charisma, banter, etc

Why?  Charisma doesn't have anything to do with class.

Lockpicking of course

Lockpicking is a particularly tedious form of niche protection and should mostly be removed.  When it does still exist, there should usually be alternative ways of getting the lock open (brute force, taking the key from the guy who has it, charm)

Chance to join thieves guild of any type. (Rogues are sneaky shadowy types with underground connections, that should be reflected somehow) I want to feel like I'm a survivor, a dude from the bottom of the barrel who was raised in a rough environment who kept going thanks to his tongue, his ability and a hidden dagger on his boot. It didn't really made much sense that a noble Cousland was instructed in the arts of backstabbing and lockpicking.

I don't want to feel like that, but I still want to be able to play a character that uses intelligence, trickery and finesse.  Thieves guilds are silly, and incorporating random theivery almost never makes any sense in a story based CRPG.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Wouldn't work.

Personally I love the rogues in DA.

[filetemo]

Wulfram wrote...

filetemo wrote...

Stealth missions

They don't work well except in games built specially for them.  And don't fit at all well with a party based game

Maybe DA3 will be more suited to them, if they go in the stealth direction. MotA already had this cool stealth section, I consider it a nice change and look forward to an expanded version in DA3

[MorningBird]

While I don't disagree with you, there were opportunities in Origins to do... pretty much everything you're saying.

-Stealth Missions
While I think it would be a bit much to have stealth specific missions, many regular missions could be made easier by simply maxing out stealth and using it to clean up an area before signaling the rest of your party to leap into combat. If your ranking was high enough, you could slip in to areas unnoticed, take down traps, put up some of your own, and then single someone out to stun and backstab for crit damage.

-Retrieve the relic style missions
DAO had a line of pickpocketing and burglary quests that a rogue warden--and only a rogue warden--could do personally ( if you didn't want to bludgeon your way through it all in a bloody mess, anyway ) otherwise you needed a party member with pickpocketing or stealth.

-Cheating missions
While there are a few missions where the warden can don a disguise to get out of a tight spot, these missions are not class specific. However, the warden can lie, and I'm fairly certain that a successful lie depends on one's cunning/coercion, departments that rogues are often better off in.

-Bonuses to charisma, banter, etc
A rogue... kind of already gets this, since (along with dex) cunning is one of the main stats you want to pump points into. Coercion would make a character silver tongued.

-Lockpicking
As you said!

-Chance to join thieves guild
Slim Cauldry offered a line of pickpocket and burglary quests to the warden that could be successfully completed depending on their pickpocketing and stealth. Well, at least if you didn't want gross amounts of bloodshed! XD Stealth is a rogue only talent, and pickpocketing (while not class determined) does use cunning. It's not a rogues only club or guild, but still.

You are right though, DA2 did seem to do less of this... and that's the main reason my rogue play style switched from 'stealthy trickster' to 'assassin'. With the way enemies spawned in DA2, I just didn't get the same/any use out of stealth. I can remember one mission where you could get brownie points for eavesdropping on a full conversation, but even that could be done without the aid of stealth...

By and large, I preferred DA2's take on combat, but I do miss Origins options. Aside from lockpicking (something that both Varric and Isabela can do just as easily) playing a rogue just didn't seem as useful in a 'stealth' sense.

The assassin tree was still awesome, but it's not my preferred play style for a rogue if I can meaningfully use stealth or a combination of the two.

Then again, maybe I was just doing it wrong! XD This wouldn't surprise me.

Modifié par MorningBird, 23 septembre 2012 - 08:53 .

[Quicksilver26]

I think that would be fun

[SafetyShattered]

I agree OP. I think having rogues be able to avoid conflicts using stealth would be pretty sweet.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I like rogues to be more roguey. In combat, I always loved the Duelist spec, but I wish it had more flash and flourish.

[Fortlowe]

Origins for classes? Yes please. How did the rogue start down the path of larceny, intrigue, sabotage, and murder for hire? Bet that's a good story.