166 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

You realize if we did this, this means that we would never release DLC, expansions, and in many cases even sequels.

Well, I'd rather you spent time on stuff I might actually buy rather than DLC.  I've mostly given up on expansions already.  And starting afresh with every new game wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing either.

[upsettingshorts]

franciscoamell wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

How does one define "the complete game?"

The game with all the story and characters the developpers wanted to put in from the start.

Oh look I get to quote this Paradox dev post again:

We were very wary of adding more new features than we could handle (*cough* HoI3 *cough*.) Thus, the design document was divided into core, major and minor features. The major and minor features were modular and ordered by priority, so that we could simply start cutting the least important ones if it looked we would not have time to do them properly. In fact, we expected to have to cut some of them, and yes, we thought that some would eventually make good DLC.

Now, there are a lot of negative opinions about DLC among gamers these days. In some cases, it's justified; some DLC material just isn't worth the money. However, I've never understood the argument that "it should have been in the game from the start". Everything should apparently have been in the game, including an onion peeler and a self-aware AI. There are so many obvious problems with long development cycles that anyone should be able to understand that this argument is simply nonsense. It's far better to make a fun and balanced game with all the core features working properly than to either release a buggy bloated mess or a game with a huge budget (and thus a huge risk) and hefty price tag that's already outdated on release after five years of development.

So what did we cut from Crusader Kings II? Basically, this:

• A medieval style chronicle with annual entries
• Trade post holdings built by the republics (Venice, Genoa, etc)
• Hiring ships from the great republics
• Relics that can be found, looted, and used to build cathedrals
• Loads of very rare narrative events (like "The Gates of Hell") with multi-generational effects
• A viceroy/drots/great seneschal council position for each kingdom held
• Cadet branches of dynasties
• Adventures - younger sons raising an army and going off to conquer something on their own

Will all these things become DLC? Probably not, but some likely will, and others might be patched in for free (or, well, basically paid for by those who do buy our DLC.) Note that playable non-Christians, republics and theocracies were never planned (though always considered good material for expansions.)

There is no such thing as a "complete game."  It's a myth invented by gamers in the interest of gamers so they can play the victim.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 septembre 2012 - 11:31 .

[Wulfram]

The Hierophant wrote...


What about no new characters as dlc, but having a returning companion as day 1 dlc instead( like Zevran)?

I think returning companion DLC would be resented far more than new characters - which most people seem depressingly accepting of.

[Emzamination]

Wulfram wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

You realize if we did this, this means that we would never release DLC, expansions, and in many cases even sequels.

Well, I'd rather you spent time on stuff I might actually buy rather than DLC.  I've mostly given up on expansions already.  And starting afresh with every new game wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing either.

No expansions... one of the most devastating post I've ever read...

[Allan Schumacher]

[quote]franciscoamell wrote...
You realize if we did this, this means that we would never release DLC, expansions, and in many cases even sequels.

[/quote]
I wouldn't miss DLC to be honest.

[/quote]

You've made that quite clear.  How about sequels?  Since we cannot release anything that we would have wanted to put into a game


I just want to be clear, you'd rather not get stuff like Javik as DLC.  Does this also mean that you find Javik boring or of subpar quality?

[Wulfram]

Emzamination wrote...

No expansions... one of the most devastating post I've ever read...

Well, to be fair, a DA2 expansion was planned and apparently even worked upon.

I'm kind of shocked about that, but considering there were t-shirts it's hard for me to deny.

[Emzamination]

Wulfram wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

No expansions... one of the most devastating post I've ever read...

Well, to be fair, a DA2 expansion was planned and apparently even worked upon.

I'm kind of shocked about that, but considering there were t-shirts it's hard for me to deny.

While I do yearn for the exalted march, I can't help but feel bioware is doing something similar to THQ and saint's row by turning the original expansion Idea into a full blown game.

Modifié par Emzamination, 23 septembre 2012 - 11:31 .

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I have no problem with DLC, day one or otherwise, so long as it's good. I'll buy a Javik quality character DLC regardless of when it's released, but I probably will never buy a weapon/appearance pack. Doesn't mean they are bad, but I am just not the audience for them.

Besides, so much stuff gets cut out of every game...I like that DLC is the chance to give us some of that content back, and with much more polish than if it had been included in the vanilla game.

Modifié par TsaiMeLemoni, 23 septembre 2012 - 11:32 .

[Chipaway111]

I don't know anything about the development process of a game so commenting on that would just be ignorant. Though I do agree with the OP, to a degree.

If the content is on the disc and is un-locked through payment then that DLC would definitely be a no purchase for me. EA did this with Alice: Madness Returns, they 'released' a dresses + weapons pack and then certain players found out they could have it just as easily by tweaking ini files.

However if the developers are just sitting around for a month long period with nothing to do, then by all means work on DLC, as long as it's quality stuff I won't mind (which, imo, Javik was). Truthfully I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. Maybe it's the principle of the thing, I think that's what OP is trying to argue.

[Deventh]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

How does one define "the complete game?"

The game with all the story and characters the developpers wanted to put in from the start.

You realize if we did this, this means that we would never release DLC, expansions, and in many cases even sequels.

The DLC that comes out exactly in the same week when the game does should be free for everybody that purchased the game. After that make them paid if you so desire.

[Allan Schumacher]

Nah, that'd be too awesome to release as DLC.

So we should just make sure that we don't make DLC that is awesome?

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Nah, that'd be too awesome to release as DLC.

So we should just make sure that we don't make DLC that is awesome?

Obviously; you can only make DLC that has in no way been considered during development and that is not fun to play. It's the only way you guys will succeed

[Emzamination]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Nah, that'd be too awesome to release as DLC.

So we should just make sure that we don't make DLC that is awesome?

Actually come to think of it...you guys could stop releasing those useless Avatar items.Those resources could be better directed elsewhere.

[Sejborg]

If they do something like that again then I will not buy the game.

What should they do after the game has gone gold then? How about testing the damn game?!

And then release the needed day one PATCH, so the costumers don't have to experience a weird math bug, that make everyone explode on contact, don't have a game without the promised "auto attack" (lol we forgot derp) and don't have a game that is unbalanced.

[Sejborg]

franciscoamell wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

If they do something like that again then I will not buy the game.

What should they do after the game has gone gold then? How about testing the damn game?!

And then release the needed day one PATCH, so the costumers don't have to experience a weird math bug, that make everyone explode on contact, don't have a game without the promised "auto attack" (lol we forgot derp) and don't have a game that is unbalanced.

That or take a break. You don't need to work non-stop.

True. I think even game developers need vacations.

[Emzamination]

Sejborg wrote...

If they do something like that again then I will not buy the game.

What should they do after the game has gone gold then? How about testing the damn game?!

And then release the needed day one PATCH, so the costumers don't have to experience a weird math bug, that make everyone explode on contact, don't have a game without the promised "auto attack" (lol we forgot derp) and don't have a game that is unbalanced.

How could they release a patch before the bugs are even reported?

[Vandicus]

Emzamination wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

If they do something like that again then I will not buy the game.

What should they do after the game has gone gold then? How about testing the damn game?!

And then release the needed day one PATCH, so the costumers don't have to experience a weird math bug, that make everyone explode on contact, don't have a game without the promised "auto attack" (lol we forgot derp) and don't have a game that is unbalanced.

How could they release a patch before the bugs are even reported?

With space magic! 

But more seriously, what he's suggesting is small group testing in the time period between the shipping of the game and its availability for sale. There are some issues with this suggestion, such as needing to hire on people to do the testing and the immense amount of time needed to play through a DA game. Not to mention many bugs often take a while to find the solution to.

[Emzamination]

franciscoamell wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

If they do something like that again then I will not buy the game.

What should they do after the game has gone gold then? How about testing the damn game?!

And then release the needed day one PATCH, so the costumers don't have to experience a weird math bug, that make everyone explode on contact, don't have a game without the promised "auto attack" (lol we forgot derp) and don't have a game that is unbalanced.

How could they release a patch before the bugs are even reported?

They can play their own game and see the bugs for themselves.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that is part of Allan's job.Tho all in all bioware has never released a... *thinks back to origins* ok yeah, you have point.

[Emzamination]

Vandicus wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

If they do something like that again then I will not buy the game.

What should they do after the game has gone gold then? How about testing the damn game?!

And then release the needed day one PATCH, so the costumers don't have to experience a weird math bug, that make everyone explode on contact, don't have a game without the promised "auto attack" (lol we forgot derp) and don't have a game that is unbalanced.

How could they release a patch before the bugs are even reported?

With space magic! 

But more seriously, what he's suggesting is small group testing in the time period between the shipping of the game and its availability for sale. There are some issues with this suggestion, such as needing to hire on people to do the testing and the immense amount of time needed to play through a DA game. Not to mention many bugs often take a while to find the solution to.

Getting paid to game all day? Sign me up, I'll even put in over time

[Ravenmyste]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Nah, that'd be too awesome to release as DLC.

So we should just make sure that we don't make DLC that is awesome?

there is another route if you gave us the entire game on the disc you could i dont know make a expac.. call me crazy allan but wouldnt that be more  greater chance of making newer things and lore and characters than just adding  dlc after dlc that would just seem like being strung alone granted the awakenings expac wasnt that great, but i am sure you could do more with the game if you got all the other parts of the game from the main game out and just made a expac to show newer places and powers to continue the game..and after the expac  then go into DLCs  so that way we can continue are game adventures..

sorta like this main game everything you wanted to tell us, expac  some new places that couldnt fit or wasnt ready  public eyes till it was done added quite bit to the world of da3 like say few months after or maybe a year after the super battle and or tie up loose ends and introduce a new  story that pertains some how some way to the main story that could be done over a dlc expanse..

now i am not saying take all the content you have made up and tested and  readied  for sale, but please think about doing  a expac like with da2 there should been expac after for sebastion's story for when he goes back to his kingdom.

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 24 septembre 2012 - 12:22 .