166 réponses à ce sujet

[Emzamination]

and here come the fireworks *eats popcorn*

[Vandicus]

franciscoamell wrote...


So you think Day One DLC is sold so they can make money and give it to charity? You think that I'm being greedy to want something for free that could've been a part of what I bought (and sometimes it's already in the disc) and they're releasing more paid content to make world peace? You're a little biased, fanboy.

They're a business. You're asking them to give you more than you purchased for free. Don't pretend you've got a moral high ground. Both sides are operating based on their own self interest. They sell the game to make money, you buy the game for entertainment.

[upsettingshorts]

See the post by the Paradox dev a couple pages back to learn why you are wrong, franciscoamell.

[redBadger14]

Vandicus wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

No, I think you are having problems understanding me, or just distorting what I wrote. I meant that games should be(and are, at least the ones I play) a fun experience without DLC and the story have to make sense by it's own. So, you can't release a DLC that affects too much of the story, otherwise the game isn't worth buying without the DLC.

There's plenty of people that have fun with DAO without Shale, DA2 without Sebastian, ME2 without Zaeed, and ME3 without Javik.  I'd argue that none of these characters change the story in any way.  They merely add to it.  A lot like say, Tales of the Sword Coast.

I'm just baffled. You're saying you don't want more content that helps flesh out the game world and provides interesting or even awesome game moments. I agree that the stand alone games need to be coherent and awesome in their own right.

So I guess the idea is, if Javik didn't even exist at all, would people see ME3 differently? Or is Javik just the type of thing that people do want?

I'm one of these people. I have a lot of fun without them, but I think I deserve that content for free. You meant to put that in the main game, why didn't you?

What makes you think you deserve this particular content for free, or any content for free for that matter? How they parcel their games and sell them is known before you ever make a purchase. You as the consumer make the choice to buy the game knowing what content is in it. The buying and selling of a product constitutes a very straightforward business contract. 

I think this is one of those cases where people try to mask simple greed(I want more, and I want it free) with some sort've moral high ground.

This again.

And I think it needs to be said again that developers can say all day and night what they want to put into a game, but what they can put into the game is a whole different story. 

Javik was a case where BioWare simply could not get him into the game in time before the discs would be manufactured. It just could not happen. So, they decided instead of getting rid of him completely, they would release him as DLC, free for CE owners and paid for everyone else. 

And to demand that you (or others) get Javik or anything else for free is silly. BioWare develops the content, they work hard to make that stuff. Their job is by no means easy. I would think it's fair that they receive some form of compensation for their quality work. If you have a problem with it, well, just get over it really.

[Vandicus]

franciscoamell wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...


So you think Day One DLC is sold so they can make money and give it to charity? You think that I'm being greedy to want something for free that could've been a part of what I bought (and sometimes it's already in the disc) and they're releasing more paid content to make world peace? You're a little biased, fanboy.

They're a business. You're asking them to give you more than you purchased for free. Don't pretend you've got a moral high ground. Both sides are operating based on their own self interest. They sell the game to make money, you buy the game for entertainment.

So why am I wrong and they are right, again?

You do not buy their game as an act of charity any more than they produce content to give it out for free.

When you purchase one of their games you enter into a very specific contract entitling you to the content that is sold to you and that alone. Both sides of this transaction are an act of greed, they sell to make money, you buy it to derive enjoyment.

You do not have a moral high ground when you demand more content than you paid for for free. You got what you paid for. No more, no less. If you want more, pay for it. Don't whine about how you were screwed over as a consumer when you made the choice to buy the product and knew what it came with. You are demanding the company to act against its own self interest by giving their product away for free. The company does not demand you give them your money without an agreed upon exchange.

[Vandicus]

franciscoamell wrote...

I didn't demand anything! I think that as a fan, and as a costumer who spent 200R$ on a game, I believe I deserve the full experience they wanted the players to have.

You believe you deserve something which you have not paid for. Clear as day. 

[upsettingshorts]

You're inventing a standard out of thin air. There is no "full experience they want players to have."

There is retail edition content that costs a certain amount. There is DLC content that costs a certain amount.

You are free to buy as much content as you care to. The "full experience" does not exist.  A "complete game" does not exist.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 24 septembre 2012 - 01:06 .

[Sejborg]

redBadger14 wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

No, I think you are having problems understanding me, or just distorting what I wrote. I meant that games should be(and are, at least the ones I play) a fun experience without DLC and the story have to make sense by it's own. So, you can't release a DLC that affects too much of the story, otherwise the game isn't worth buying without the DLC.

There's plenty of people that have fun with DAO without Shale, DA2 without Sebastian, ME2 without Zaeed, and ME3 without Javik.  I'd argue that none of these characters change the story in any way.  They merely add to it.  A lot like say, Tales of the Sword Coast.

I'm just baffled. You're saying you don't want more content that helps flesh out the game world and provides interesting or even awesome game moments. I agree that the stand alone games need to be coherent and awesome in their own right.

So I guess the idea is, if Javik didn't even exist at all, would people see ME3 differently? Or is Javik just the type of thing that people do want?

I'm one of these people. I have a lot of fun without them, but I think I deserve that content for free. You meant to put that in the main game, why didn't you?

What makes you think you deserve this particular content for free, or any content for free for that matter? How they parcel their games and sell them is known before you ever make a purchase. You as the consumer make the choice to buy the game knowing what content is in it. The buying and selling of a product constitutes a very straightforward business contract. 

I think this is one of those cases where people try to mask simple greed(I want more, and I want it free) with some sort've moral high ground.

This again.

And I think it needs to be said again that developers can say all day and night what they want to put into a game, but what they can put into the game is a whole different story. 

Javik was a case where BioWare simply could not get him into the game in time before the discs would be manufactured. It just could not happen. So, they decided instead of getting rid of him completely, they would release him as DLC, free for CE owners and paid for everyone else. 

And to demand that you (or others) get Javik or anything else for free is silly. BioWare develops the content, they work hard to make that stuff. Their job is by no means easy. I would think it's fair that they receive some form of compensation for their quality work. If you have a problem with it, well, just get over it really.

I'm pretty sure it was proven that Javik was already on the disc. 

[redBadger14]

franciscoamell wrote...

I didn't demand anything! I think that as a fan, and as a costumer who spent 200R$ on a game, I believe I deserve the full experience they wanted the players to have.

Get it through your head, it's IMPOSSIBLE to get everything they want on the discs. 

Some has to be cut, some has to be moved to DLC post-launch, free or paid. Either way, that final product you buy has 90% of what the developers originally intended to give us. You have no right to demand anything of them when what you want is different from what BioWare or any other dev can do.

[redBadger14]

Sejborg wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

No, I think you are having problems understanding me, or just distorting what I wrote. I meant that games should be(and are, at least the ones I play) a fun experience without DLC and the story have to make sense by it's own. So, you can't release a DLC that affects too much of the story, otherwise the game isn't worth buying without the DLC.

There's plenty of people that have fun with DAO without Shale, DA2 without Sebastian, ME2 without Zaeed, and ME3 without Javik.  I'd argue that none of these characters change the story in any way.  They merely add to it.  A lot like say, Tales of the Sword Coast.

I'm just baffled. You're saying you don't want more content that helps flesh out the game world and provides interesting or even awesome game moments. I agree that the stand alone games need to be coherent and awesome in their own right.

So I guess the idea is, if Javik didn't even exist at all, would people see ME3 differently? Or is Javik just the type of thing that people do want?

I'm one of these people. I have a lot of fun without them, but I think I deserve that content for free. You meant to put that in the main game, why didn't you?

What makes you think you deserve this particular content for free, or any content for free for that matter? How they parcel their games and sell them is known before you ever make a purchase. You as the consumer make the choice to buy the game knowing what content is in it. The buying and selling of a product constitutes a very straightforward business contract. 

I think this is one of those cases where people try to mask simple greed(I want more, and I want it free) with some sort've moral high ground.

This again.

And I think it needs to be said again that developers can say all day and night what they want to put into a game, but what they can put into the game is a whole different story. 

Javik was a case where BioWare simply could not get him into the game in time before the discs would be manufactured. It just could not happen. So, they decided instead of getting rid of him completely, they would release him as DLC, free for CE owners and paid for everyone else. 

And to demand that you (or others) get Javik or anything else for free is silly. BioWare develops the content, they work hard to make that stuff. Their job is by no means easy. I would think it's fair that they receive some form of compensation for their quality work. If you have a problem with it, well, just get over it really.

I'm pretty sure it was proven that Javik was already on the disc. 

No it was not. There were framework files that would ensure the content could integrate with the game properly, nothing else.

[redBadger14]

franciscoamell wrote...

redBadger14 wrote...

franciscoamell wrote...

I didn't demand anything! I think that as a fan, and as a costumer who spent 200R$ on a game, I believe I deserve the full experience they wanted the players to have.

Get it through your head, it's IMPOSSIBLE to get everything they want on the discs. 

Some has to be cut, some has to be moved to DLC post-launch, free or paid. Either way, that final product you buy has 90% of what the developers originally intended to give us. You have no right to demand anything of them when what you want is different from what BioWare or any other dev can do.

Again, I didn't demand anything!
If this site even exists, it's because Bioware wants to know their fanbase's OPINION. And that's what I'm giving.

Demand. Deserve. It's the same thing. You believe you have the right to own something that is not or cannot be there. Simple as that. Your notions of "complete games" existing is simply not true at all.

Modifié par redBadger14, 24 septembre 2012 - 01:12 .

[MDarwin]

Soon they release maybe Games where the ending(Or other Part(s) ) is missing and only as an DLC available. And that would be OK?

[Jackums]

MDarwin wrote...

Soon they release maybe Games where the ending(Or other Part(s) ) is missing and only as an DLC available. And that would be OK?

Except they won't.

[upsettingshorts]

scyphozoa wrote...

We should probably create a one-size fits all infographic explaining how and why DLC is made. These threads are made every few days and the people who make them are consistently certain that they know precisely which content is "supposed to be in the core game" and then basing a whole line of criticisms off of their assumptions. The sooner we can rid ourselves of this backwards thinking and the subsequent threads, the better.

There's been one floating around for years.  Everyone ignores it.  Nobody listens.

[MDarwin]

JackumsD wrote...

MDarwin wrote...

Soon they release maybe Games where the ending(Or other Part(s) ) is missing and only as an DLC available. And that would be OK?

Except they won't.

Aha, Your in the "Know". Good to Read.  

[Vandicus]

MDarwin wrote...

Soon they release maybe Games where the ending(Or other Part(s) ) is missing and only as an DLC available. And that would be OK?

That would be ok. I would probably not buy it though. The purchase here is completely voluntary. They are free to release a great game or release a terrible game. They can also release an incomplete game if they so wish. We are under no obligation to purchase the game. We make the choice to buy or not. We did not invest in the game's development and have no say in how they choose to sell it. If you don't like something, talk with your wallet.