108 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

esper wrote...
I don't want the Arcane Warrior back because I don't like cross classing in dragon age, (espically since it would mean mean only mean mage/warrior or mage/rouge, a rouge/warrior would offer little, both lorewise and game play wise) and I don't want the specialization to take away from the already precious few option of specalizations we got.

A rogue/ warrior was possible in Awakening, even in Origins really, because you could build a very hardy tank rogue especially with the Legion Scout specialty.  And that's something else I'd like to see back.  But if they aren't going to give players the freedom to build their own custom classes, a hybrid specialization is better than nothing.

[Wulfram]

Make most of the mage defensive talents only work when not wearing armour, and that would solve a lot of the balance issues with the Arcane Warrior

edit:  Well, except it might end up being too weak.

Modifié par Wulfram, 01 février 2013 - 05:20 .

[JaegerBane]

Commander Kurt wrote...
I played for a full playthrough as AW, it was fine at first but once I had been to denerim for the first time I just couldn't get into it anymore. It was too easy. I'm not sure if you think I'm lying or what the problem is; you keep saying that it isn't broken and that there are in fact drawbacks but the truth of the matter is that it became too simple for me to enjoy. Why you think I would care enough about this to make stuff up, I don't know. I'm not even the only person saying it and still you just treat it like fabrications.

I'm not treating it as a 'fabrication' as such, playing a mage in DA:O really is that easy so I'm not convinced there's an argument for removing the AW based on difficulty. I don't doubt that it could do with some rebalancing, but there's a big difference between rebalancing a class and removing it altogether. That's what I'm trying to get at, I guess. I'm more bothered about the class concept then the specific implementation.

It baffles me, almost as much as you being so educated about AW and NOT noticing that it's pretty much impossible to loose a fight when you have it. I feel like I'm insisting that water is wet to someone claiming it's not.

It's not so much that, its more that you're using someone else's argument to back up your assertion despite the fact the argument doesn't work with your own stance. Like I said, removing it for balancing reasons is one thing, but making easy mode even easier isn't really justification for wholesale removal of the class.

Regarding there being a way for mages to wear armor and wield swords, I'm all for it. As you know by now. Regarding me wanting to be rid of it, it boils down to me not seeing the value in it. You could have MORE variation just taking the time to switch between your mage and a warrior, and I get that you don't want to but to dedicate a specialization to those who just can't be bothered..? I'm not for it. IF it was done well, I would be. Donning an armor and picking up a sword once the strength requirements are met would be a nice feature, what do you think about that?

Quite happy witn that, the problem with doing that directly in DA:O in comparison to something like Skyrim is that DA:O as it stands can't do hybrid classes from the ground up. If you try to split your skills its not like Skyrim where it just measn you get a bit of both, it's all or nothing due to the way tiers, attack and spellpower work.

I think that's the basic point we disagree on - you think Combat Magic basically means you get everything, but you're ignoring the fact that the mage incurs major fatigue just to get what warriors get normally, and even then all that means is passive stuff like armour and auto-attack.

We've gone around the houses on this one, perhaps we just agree to disagree?

Modifié par JaegerBane, 01 février 2013 - 05:35 .

[Iosev]

My biggest issue with the Arcane Warrior in its Dragon Age: Origins incarnation is that has a rather tedious and boring playstyle, which typically involves the activation of sustained abilities, casting AoE spells as a pseudo form of threat, and then auto-attack. An Arcane Warrior is essentially spending a good deal of time in combat buffing up and casting spells, which seems to be at odds with the specialization's focus on close-quarter melee.

If the Arcane Warrior does return, it would need to be less caster-oriented, have more close-combat abilities (instead of just auto-attack), as well as find a way to keep its playstyle unique from the warrior playstyles.

Another potential issue that I can see with the Arcane Warrior deals with the possible, increased emphasis of specializations on the story. Specializations like the Blood Mage or Spirit Healer can ideally have a lot of impact on dialogue and the storyline, but I'm not so sure how a dramatically less well-known specialization like Arcane Warrior would impact dialogue or story.

Modifié par arcelonious, 01 février 2013 - 06:17 .

[Wompoo]

The over powered argument in moot really, if you play these class/builds you play them because you enjoy the way they feel (and yes some times it feels liberating to be OP). I can think of quite a few D&D classes that were over powered but were just so much fun to play (some times fun > then balance). The game has no PvP (thank god, because nothing screws diverse outlandish and fun game play more then that). Arcane Warrior, although an enjoyable class build had the whole sustain mechanic going, which was an absolute pain in the backside.

Modifié par Wompoo, 01 février 2013 - 06:17 .

[Addai]

arcelonious wrote...
Another potential issue that I can see with the Arcane Warrior deals with the possible, increased emphasis of specializations on the story. Specializations like the Blood Mage or Spirit Healer can ideally have a lot of impact on dialogue and the storyline, but I'm not so sure how a dramatically less well-known specialization like Arcane Warrior would impact dialogue or story.

Unless you're talking about headcanon (which is very valid, BTW, that's how I play) then specializations had very little story impact in DA.  No one ever commented on my blood mages' slashing themselves open, and that I can recall only one person in Origins commented on my PC being a templar, that being the blind guy in the alienage.

If it's as I'm picturing, which is an apostate who took weapons training, then it could have a lot of story significance in a mage-templar war.  If I was an apostate who had little opportunity to train in magic, but constantly lived in fear of exposure, then I'm not sure why I wouldn't learn how to use a sword.

[Iosev]

Addai67 wrote...

Unless you're talking about headcanon (which is very valid, BTW, that's how I play) then specializations had very little story impact in DA.  No one ever commented on my blood mages' slashing themselves open, and that I can recall only one person in Origins commented on my PC being a templar, that being the blind guy in the alienage.

I'm actually not talking about the previous DA games, but rather in regards to one of the developers comments about possibly making the specializations more impactful on plot in the upcoming game.  Unfortunately I don't recall the source, so I can't link the reference.

Modifié par arcelonious, 01 février 2013 - 07:06 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

arcelonious wrote...

Another potential issue that I can see with the Arcane Warrior deals with the possible, increased emphasis of specializations on the story. Specializations like the Blood Mage or Spirit Healer can ideally have a lot of impact on dialogue and the storyline, but I'm not so sure how a dramatically less well-known specialization like Arcane Warrior would impact dialogue or story.

Specializations will be mentioned and acknowledged. That is all from what I recall.

You could learn the Arcane Warrior specialization perhaps from a spirit and then you might have companions/allies noting that you "fight just as efficient" as a warrior in combat despite being a mage. Characters might note that you're wearing armor despite being a mage (because it seems to be the norm for mages to wear robes) and you could even have some mages come up to you at one point asking to learn the specialization from you which eventually results in it becoming wide-spread like it was in the ancient times. This could lead to it carrying over to DA4 whereas not teaching the mages would mean that the mage protagonist of DA4 either can't access the spec or might have to complete a quest-line just to learn it from another spirit or whatnot.

Reading through the posts and most people's main objection seems to be about the AW being overpowered. Ignore that though and you've got a great concept which could easily be worked on until a balanced build is created. This topic certainly proves that people would like to see it return.

However with the increased emphasis on not being able to mix and match weapons between classes in DA2, perhaps this is just wishful thinking.

[Wizardkon Hatiif]

Most robes are a no. But there was that initial Warden Commander one, from awakening that I got accustomed to. But NO! I prefer midly penalized heavy set armor, on my mage. So Arcane me up please. Because after I set my spells, I like to "go in", for the kill.