59 réponses à ce sujet

[Borschtbeet]

by allignment I am referring to the D&D allignment system.

Here is a pretty good explanation.

http://en.wikipedia....e-playing_games)

Here is what I think.

Allistair:Lawful good.

He is a templar which is the Dragon Age equivalent to a Paladin which are as a rule always lawful good.  It is apparent by his actions and demeanor that he is both concerned with doing what is morally just and respecting legitimate authority.  

Morrigan:Neutral Evil.

She is primarily concerned with herself and doing whatever is necessary to benefit herself and does not care who she hurts in the process.  She is self-serving and cares little of those around her unless they advance her own personal interests.  She is practically the textbook definition of neutral evil.

Sten:Lawful Neutral.

Sten acts in accordance to the philosophy of his people's Qun religion and would never let his personal feelings of morality conflict with that under any circumstances.  He will destroy anything that does not fall under his faith's teachings regardless of whether or not they present themselves as good or evil.  Morality doesn't matter, only honor and tradition are important to Sten.

Wynne:Lawful Good.

Wynne upholds the laws of the circle and believes wholeheartedly in the Chantry's gospel.  She is a motherly saint who is as compassionate as they come.

Zevran:Chaotic Neutral.

Zevran is a free spirit who is not particularly driven to good or evil and will act according to his own interests, though not at any cost as we see in the Bercillian forest that he is not completely incapable of mercy or a sense of justice.

Lelianna:Neutral Good.

Lelianna doesn't mind the authority that the chantry holds but she is not completely beholden to it as we see from her own interpretations of the Maker that she tells the player character.  Lelianna is ultimately concerned with doing what is best, and if working with authority is the best way to achieve that then all the better.  However, if she sees ways outside of the law to do a greater good, she won't hesitate.
Authority isn't useless to her, but goodness always comes first.

Dog:Lawful Neutral.  The dog is obedient to his master.  Anyone who messes with the master will have their ankle bitten, no exceptions.

Oghren:Chaotic Neutral

Oghren is a drunk emotional wreck.  He doesn't hold alleignance to anyone unless it is in his own best interests.  He can't really respect the law because his emotions will get the best of him.  Had the warden not found him he probably would've eventually ended up executed or exiled.

Shale:True Neutral

Shale cares nothing about laws, morality or anything of the sort.  It has never really had the chance to act on any of it's feelings being that it was enslaved so it chooses to follow the Grey Warden not knowing what else to do with it's newfound freedom.

Loghain:Lawful Evil

Loghain is a well intentioned extremist an ultra Ferelden nationalist.  To him, the ends always justify the means and was so traumatized by the occupation of Ferelden by the Orlesians that he arguably sees them as an even greater threat than the blight, despite the two nations being at peace.
He wishes to subjugate the entire nation under his rule through lies, manipulation, and murder.  All who stand in his way must die.

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 27 décembre 2009 - 06:00 .

[VanDraegon]

I doubt few of them fit any of the D&D types. One of the reasons Bioware wanted to make their own world was to get free of the rules imposed upon the D&D system. They specifically wanted to blur the lines of morality.



Leave your D&D conventions at the door when entering Thedas.

[Narelda]

If you want to put them into such a mold, those would be the best fits. Yet Loghain and Morrigan aren't really evil aligned. Nor can your character be really evil. You can be a **** and renegade, but ultimately your job is to save Ferelden and defeat the blight.

[AsheraII]

Forget everything that you know about D&D while playing DA:O, *especially* anything regarding alignments. They served their purpose in D&D, but they have no place in DA:O.

[Borschtbeet]

This is just speculation. It's no different than when people create a topic asking who would win in a fight? Commander Shepard or the Grey Warden?

I don't contest that the morality system from D&D doesn't apply to Dragon Age, but I'm just speculating on how it would look for the various companions if it had.

[Basher of Glory]

The question, if the D&D alignement system applies or not, is not important for me. What I read in the OP is an excellent description of the companion's mindsets.

Although I'm a bit in doubts, if Morrigan is really "evil", I could not describe her better.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Aaahh, but Zevran is an Assassin and as such not allowed to be of Neutral alignment...

[Borschtbeet]

He is an assassin but the circumstances in which you meet him are most unusual. If he were truly lawful then he would either die trying to assassinate the grey wardens, or flee back to the Antivan Crows and accept his fate.

He didn't though because saving his hide comes first.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Didn't say he couldn't be Lawful. Most Assassins are Lawful Evil due to the codex or creed involved in major Assassination factions and its what seperates them from your run-of-the-mill psycopath who is Chaotic Evil.

He can't be Neutral though, due to the very nature of the Assassin class. Just like Paladins must be Good, Assassins must be Evil in DnD.

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 27 décembre 2009 - 06:35 .

[AsheraII]

The problem with that is, that each of your companions is good from his or her own perspective. Especially one as alien as Sten could be considered lawful good within his own society, though could be considered lawful neutral by others, while the people in Lothering would definitely grade him as neutral evil. It's a shortcoming that D&D never managed to close, dispite how useful the alignments are within their own system.

From the Drow society's perspective, Drizzt Do'Urden would be considered neutral evil, while they regard themselves as lawful good.



DA:O works with another system, one which doesn't have a public name, but I'd call it something like "Origin - Drive" if had to pick a name for it. Each characters preferences, likes and dislikes stemming from their origin, from which a drive is created that leads to their goal. Each character comes with different solutions and reasonings from his or her origin (upbringing if you like), which gives them a preferred choice of actions. Pick a choice outside their preference or scope, and they will not like it. Pick a choice within their preference, and they will agree with you (naturally).

[Borschtbeet]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Didn't say he couldn't be Lawful. Most Assassins are Lawful Evil due to the codex or creed involved in major Assassination factions and its what seperates them from your run-of-the-mill psycopath who is Chaotic Evil.

He can't be Neutral though, due to the very nature of the Assassin class. Just like Paladins must be Good, Assassins must be Evil in DnD.

Yeah, just realized the mistake I made.

Still, I think the circumstances in which you meet Zevran indicate that his past life as an assassin are over and that he never really cared much about his contractors to begin with since he never really had a choice to join them.

He is an assassin only in the sense that he shares their skills.  By the time he encounters the grey warden though his life as an assassin is essentially over.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

That's not true AsheraII. The Drow know that they are evil and they like it. They see Drizzt as a good-doer and despise him for it. Not even a Drow would consider torturing a slave to death a Good act.

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 27 décembre 2009 - 06:39 .

[Borschtbeet]

AsheraII wrote...

The problem with that is, that each of your companions is good from his or her own perspective. Especially one as alien as Sten could be considered lawful good within his own society, though could be considered lawful neutral by others, while the people in Lothering would definitely grade him as neutral evil. It's a shortcoming that D&D never managed to close, dispite how useful the alignments are within their own system.
From the Drow society's perspective, Drizzt Do'Urden would be considered neutral evil, while they regard themselves as lawful good.

DA:O works with another system, one which doesn't have a public name, but I'd call it something like "Origin - Drive" if had to pick a name for it. Each characters preferences, likes and dislikes stemming from their origin, from which a drive is created that leads to their goal. Each character comes with different solutions and reasonings from his or her origin (upbringing if you like), which gives them a preferred choice of actions. Pick a choice outside their preference or scope, and they will not like it. Pick a choice within their preference, and they will agree with you (naturally).

The thing about Sten is that he may very well believe that the Qun is good, but even if he didn't he would still fight in it's name out of a sense of duty for his country and his sense of justice.
It would be like a Russian during Soviet times who hates Stalin but forfeits an opportunity to sell secrets which might bring him down out of a sense of love for his nation.
Sten is the type who puts loyalty, honor, and tradition above all else.

[J.O.G]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...
He can't be Neutral though, due to the very nature of the Assassin class. Just like Paladins must be Good, Assassins must be Evil in DnD.

By that logic Leliana needs to be evil too, because she also was an assassin. She just stopped assassinating people a year or two earlier. You don't need a prestige class badge to be able to kill people for money.

IMO Zevran is true Neutral - He had no choice after all, but didn't care either.

Leliana is Lawful Neutral, she did it out of loyalty, despite being taught to keep her loyalties fleeting and when things went awry, she found a new master in the Maker. Luckily this new master doesn't give orders, or does he? She strves for redemption, thus her self-righteous goodie-two-shoeness.

Modifié par J.O.G, 27 décembre 2009 - 07:11 .

[Ulrik the Slayer]

J.O.G wrote...

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...
He can't be Neutral though, due to the very nature of the Assassin class. Just like Paladins must be Good, Assassins must be Evil in DnD.

By that logic Leliana needs to be evil too, because she also was an assassin. She just stopped assassinating people a year or two earlier. You don't need a prestige class badge to be able to kill people for money.

Yes she would. Killing people for money is evil. And yes, there is a reason why DnD alignments can't apply to DA:O. And Zevran definitely has a Chaotic streak in him. True Neutral is not like him at all.

A True Neutral person cares only about  -balance-. I.e a Druid who is devoted to nothing but maintaining the balance between civilisation and nature. He might hunt down a population of wolves threatning to overwhelm a nearby settlement or he might choose to attack it if he feels it has grown too big.

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 27 décembre 2009 - 07:11 .

[SleeplessInSigil]

I love D&D 3.5's Alignments.

if you prefer to "blur" those, blur everything else about characters that is put in numbers as well.

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 27 décembre 2009 - 07:12 .

[J.O.G]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...
Yes she would. Killing people for money is evil. And yes, there is a reason why DnD alignments can't apply to DA:O. And Zevran definitely has a Chaotic streak in him. True Neutral is not like him at all.

A chaotic char would have either rebelled or fled at the first opportunity or tried to bully his way up to the head of the organisation. Zevran was a good little doggie, doing what he was told, but not because he felt it was right but because he didn't care to change. Like a conscript soldier obeying orders because he has to. He may strive for his freedom, now, just like Leliana strives to be good.

As for evil, in an evil society you only need to be something else than a brave rebel to play by their rules. Zevran is among the Crows what Zaknafein Do'Urden was among the Drow, or a young Everis Cale among the Night Masks.

Modifié par J.O.G, 27 décembre 2009 - 07:36 .

[Arkaelis]

I have no idea why I love alignment threads so much.



It's hard to throw characters onto a grid like this though, since they all seem to have their moments.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

J.O.G wrote...

As for evil, in an evil society you only need to be something else than a brave rebel to play by their rules. Zevran is among the Crows what Zaknafein Do'Urden was among the Drow, or a young Everis Cale among the Night Masks.

And? Still doesn't change the fact that those factions are evil by doing evil - and they know it. They don't see themselvs as "good" and others as "evil".

[AsheraII]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

J.O.G wrote...

As for evil, in an evil society you only need to be something else than a brave rebel to play by their rules. Zevran is among the Crows what Zaknafein Do'Urden was among the Drow, or a young Everis Cale among the Night Masks.

And? Still doesn't change the fact that those factions are evil by doing evil - and they know it. They don't see themselvs as "good" and others as "evil".

Ah, but on the contrary, they would. Their definitions of good and evil would be different, because their priorities are different.  The priorities for the survival of a society are what define good and evil for that society. If killing a man is the means for a society to survive, than that killing will be considered a good thing, no matter the means, the only thing that eventually counts for the society is its survival, which results in the society accepting the methods used.
Furthermore, societies change. What a society claims to be a good thing at one point in time, may be considered a grave offense later. And the other way round as well. It was less than a hundred years ago that beating children was considered a good and educational thing (and it still is in some places). How things have changed in such short a timespan.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Their definitions doesn't matter. The alignments don't work like that. What if an insane murder believes that the commoners he is slaying are orcs and that he is a protector of the people for killing them? Chaotic Evil.

Alignments don't work like that, no. The Drow society is Evil and the Drow who live in it are doing Evil. They don't see themselves as Good nor are their alignments Good of any kind.

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 27 décembre 2009 - 08:20 .

[J.O.G]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...
And? Still doesn't change the fact that those factions are evil by doing evil - and they know it. They don't see themselvs as "good" and others as "evil".

Did I say anything like that?

What I meant was that when you want to survive in an oppressive evil group or even more so society, you can't be good or chaotic-neutral, because you would have fled, been slaughtered or destroyed the society from within.

You still can be lawful neutral, not caring about good or evil, but blindly doing what you're told, and you can be true neutral, only caring about yourself and being wise or lazy enough not to rebel. When you're ordered to kill that guy and the consequence for not doing so is being killed yourself by the one who gave the order, you don't need to be evil to pull the trigger.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

J.O.G wrote...

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...
And? Still doesn't change the fact that those factions are evil by doing evil - and they know it. They don't see themselvs as "good" and others as "evil".

Did I say anything like that?

What I meant was that when you want to survive in an oppressive evil group or even more so society, you can't be good or chaotic-neutral, because you would have fled, been slaughtered or destroyed the society from within.

You still can be lawful neutral, not caring about good or evil, but blindly doing what you're told, and you can be true neutral, only caring about yourself and being wise or lazy enough not to rebel. When you're ordered to kill that guy and the consequence for not doing so is being killed yourself by the one who gave the order, you don't need to be evil to pull the trigger.

You don't seem to grasp what the "True" in "True Neutral" means. What you've described is most likely Chaotic Neutral. Zevran is the very embodiment of Chaotic Neutral.

[Dahelia]

Why are we talking about D&D in a DA:O forum???? There is no point...people who try to group up everything just prefer the familiar instead of seeing it different from other games. Let them, no need to argue about who is right and who is wrong and to justify everything. Let others believe what they believe and move on. With the bickering, it makes people believe differently about the game.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Dahelia wrote...

Why are we talking about D&D in a DA:O forum???? There is no point...people who try to group up everything just prefer the familiar instead of seeing it different from other games. Let them, no need to argue about who is right and who is wrong and to justify everything. Let others believe what they believe and move on. With the bickering, it makes people believe differently about the game.

Because its interesting? Why whine about our discussion, I say...?