222 réponses à ce sujet

[IAmARad]

 Really proud of this loadout, aren't you?

[121210Olivia]

corporal doody wrote...

rocked it on bronze. sweet piece.
rocked it on silver. not so bad. just takes alittle getting used to...and stability is a must at range!

have yet to rock on gold....might do it tonight.

LOL. The only game levels it *actually* needs to "rock" are Gold and Platinum. It doesn't. Not by a 
LLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGG
shot.

[corporal doody]

121210Olivia wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

rocked it on bronze. sweet piece.
rocked it on silver. not so bad. just takes alittle getting used to...and stability is a must at range!

have yet to rock on gold....might do it tonight.

LOL. The only game levels it *actually* needs to "rock" are Gold and Platinum. It doesn't. Not by a 
LLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGG
shot.

ive said it once...i will say it again....


BALANCING ANYTHING BASED OFF of how it performs in platinum is STRAIGHT STUPID!

gold....is where it is at!!

i havent tried it on gold yet...so i have yet to form a "On Gold" opinion.

however...i have noticed certain weapons that this community has deemed "Silver only" worthy....have been quite delightful on gold.

[Cyonan]

whateverman7 wrote...
so you notice a .40 difference during the game? lol i doubt it...i know yall like to talk spreadsheet info, but i dont...i talk game experience...and from game experience, the burst is about the same...which .40 is

with a stability mod, there is no spread...i know, i used the gun with a stability mod....and the vindicator needs a stability mod the same as the argus....cause it recoils the same as the argus when you zoom and shoot...i dont care what the card color the guns are...all i care about is performance and how it fits my play style in the game....when it comes to that, the only advantage the vindicator has over the argus is it's lighter, that's it...that's why i prefer it cause the weight lets me have a good mix of powers and weapon

you're correct, i was mistaken about the saber, it's not new....anyway, that's besides the point....the point is weight doesnt equal power....the guns are good, but they are heavy...the argus, heavy...the typhoon, heavy....the harrier, heavy....and that heavy weight causes people to use other options...im not asking the guns be lighter and powerful...they can be heavy as hell, i just want it powerful as hell too....an AR equivalent to the claymore: heavy as hell, but powerful as hell too....the closest is the saber, but i want a full auto AR like that

I run the spreadsheets but when I'm talking about a gun being good or bad, I'm talking about in-game experience, not theorycrafting.

Unmodded, the Vindicator's recoil for all 3 rounds in the burst is about equal to 1 round from the Argus. It's very manageable, and pretty much non existent if you're in cover.

The Vindicator's spread is better than the Argus. Even with a scope(Which reduces spread by 35%) the bullets of the Argus aren't landing on top of each other at 100% stability. There's enough variation that at long range on the smaller targets, one of the shots in the burst often misses if you're aiming at the target's head. Yeah I can make it pinpoint with a Turian Soldier, but the Turian Soldier isn't a compelling argument as to why this is a good gun. A good gun doesn't require an even better character backing it up to make it into a good gun.

Even if you were right and the Vindicator doesn't have an advantage beyond weight, the Argus doesn't have an advantage over the Vindicator. It would just be a Vindicator with twice the weight and would still need a buff.

Even if in some world they were equal, the Vindicator isn't a very good gun anyway so by extension the Argus wouldn't be either, and the Argus still needs a buff.

[ParatrooperSean]

corporal doody wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

So you need to have it on a perfect build with max level equipment to make it even decent?

Sorry, the Saber rocks without any equipment and on level 1 characters.

Argus just sucks.

Vindicator is about 3x as good in every way other than damage. (Which it only lacks by a tiny bit.)

yeah...vindicator...i dunno man...too weak to be anything other than frustrating.

the Argus....stability stability stability!!!   stability mod and stability equipment (equipment or gear). it kicks too damned much otherwise.  damage is nice though.  better fired from the hip at close range. aimed at long range making adjustments for 3rd round jump (high and to the left...LIKE A M16A2 on burst).  

the Saber...mhhhmmmmmm. 

That musket?

[Epique Phael767]

N7 Shadow 90 wrote...

Hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... What could a Saber pop?

Low-level saber >>> high-level argus

[ToaOrka]

No no no, your logic is all wrong.

Saber X > Mattock X > Locust X > Argus X

[darkpassenger2342]

ToaOrka wrote...

No no no, your logic is all wrong.

Saber V-X > Mattock X > Locust X > Argus X

[corporal doody]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

So you need to have it on a perfect build with max level equipment to make it even decent?

Sorry, the Saber rocks without any equipment and on level 1 characters.

Argus just sucks.

Vindicator is about 3x as good in every way other than damage. (Which it only lacks by a tiny bit.)

yeah...vindicator...i dunno man...too weak to be anything other than frustrating.

the Argus....stability stability stability!!!   stability mod and stability equipment (equipment or gear). it kicks too damned much otherwise.  damage is nice though.  better fired from the hip at close range. aimed at long range making adjustments for 3rd round jump (high and to the left...LIKE A M16A2 on burst).  

the Saber...mhhhmmmmmm. 

That musket?

A United States Marine....utilizing that antiquated piece of military equipment = A ONE MAN KILLING MACHINE. on semi auto of course :happy:

ONE SHOT, ONE KILL! ready to die but never will. Rough tough cant get enough! The best drill instructor on the depot is OUR DRILL INSTRUCTOR! Drill Instructor Staff Sergeant Clayton.PLatoon One thousand thirty eight! OORAH! ATTACK! KILL!

(boot camp flashback....grad feb 98)


speaking of which...a selector switch for all weapons would be Sweeeeeeeet.

Modifié par corporal doody, 25 septembre 2012 - 05:21 .

[whateverman7]

Cyonan wrote...

I run the spreadsheets but when I'm talking about a gun being good or bad, I'm talking about in-game experience, not theorycrafting.

Unmodded, the Vindicator's recoil for all 3 rounds in the burst is about equal to 1 round from the Argus. It's very manageable, and pretty much non existent if you're in cover.

The Vindicator's spread is better than the Argus. Even with a scope(Which reduces spread by 35%) the bullets of the Argus aren't landing on top of each other at 100% stability. There's enough variation that at long range on the smaller targets, one of the shots in the burst often misses if you're aiming at the target's head. Yeah I can make it pinpoint with a Turian Soldier, but the Turian Soldier isn't a compelling argument as to why this is a good gun. A good gun doesn't require an even better character backing it up to make it into a good gun.

Even if you were right and the Vindicator doesn't have an advantage beyond weight, the Argus doesn't have an advantage over the Vindicator. It would just be a Vindicator with twice the weight and would still need a buff.

Even if in some world they were equal, the Vindicator isn't a very good gun anyway so by extension the Argus wouldn't be either, and the Argus still needs a buff.

yet you're posting spreadsheet info to make your case....on spreadsheets, i'm sure the vindicator looks a lot better...i wouldnt know, havent looked at spreadsheets for info about this game....in the game, the only advantages are the weight and reload time(i include that cause a lot of people dont reload cancel)...the recoil from bursts, bout the same; the accuracy, bout the same; the damage, advantage argus....so there's an advantage for the argus

i didnt use a turian to test the argus, i used a human engineer....the same character i have a vindicator on....all i put on it was stability and damage mods (the gun ones, not consumable)....comparing it to the vindicator: it put enemies down faster, but it slowed my power usage down

so now the vindicator isnt a good gun? lol if you say so...i disagree, but this isnt a thread for vindicators

[darkpassenger2342]

he's saying the vindicator is a piece of crap but its still better than the argus.
pretty simple.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 25 septembre 2012 - 06:24 .

[whateverman7]

EvanKester wrote...

I tried my damndest to make this gun work on a Turian Sentinel. With Turian Veteran, and a Barrage Upgrade, the recoil was eliminated, leaving me with the gun's rather modest, but significant aim-error. If you don't think there's any spread on the gun then... I honestly don't know how you could miss it. The gun does not have perfect acuracy, though its grouping isn't bad out to medium range. Used Extended Barrel and Piercing Mod to maximize damage.

I for one really did notice the slow fire rate. There's a significant pause between bursts, whereas the Vindicator can fire another burst almost immediately. Even racking up headshots, the gun was not performing significantly better against Geth than the Vindicator.

I don't know what gun you're comparing it to that you think it's worth anything, but in my experience (NOT spreadsheets), the damage output is mediocre at best, and certainly not worth its significant weight. The Revenant has better damage, and can stagger whole groups of enemies at close and medium range. The revenant's not a particularly strong gun, and it weighs less than the Argus does.. and it still does everything the argus does, but better.

Face it. The gun's garbage. it needs a buff, because it IS fun to use, and it looks and sounds cool, but pretending it's not the worst Assault Rifle in the game is just handicapping yourself, and your entire team.

my bad, didnt see your post...now my retort:

i didnt use it on a turian soldier....i used it on a human engineer...the same character i use a vindicator on...the only mods i used were stability and extended barrel (weapon, not consumable)...and t worked fine...i didnt say there wasnt spread, i said the spread isnt as bad as yall trying to make it out to be

so you noticed the .40 difference in bursts too huh? lol i doubt it...and you just said it performed better than the vindicator, but since it was significantly, it doesnt count?

i've only compared it to the vindicator cause they are similar burst fire weapons...the rev is a full auto, so why would i compare them?...if you do compare them, the rev's cons compared to argus: has worse accuracy, does less damage, and more recoil; pros: rate of fire and lighter....so no, it doesnt do everything better than the argus...which would i use first? the rev cause of the weight advantage

if i use it i'm handicapping my team? lol if you say so....the bsn is a funny place...anyway, am i saying it's the best AR? no...but it damn sure isnt as bad as yall trying to make it seem....

[whateverman7]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

he's saying the vindicator is a piece of crap but its still better than the argus.
pretty simple.

i know what he's saying, and i disagree with both

[N7 Shadow 90]

I just unlocked the Argus last night and I am liking it. (With my Turian Sentinel.)

[Ziegrif]

corporal doody wrote...
ive said it once...i will say it again....
BALANCING ANYTHING BASED OFF of how it performs in platinum is STRAIGHT STUPID!
gold....is where it is at!!
i havent tried it on gold yet...so i have yet to form a "On Gold" opinion.
however...i have noticed certain weapons that this community has deemed "Silver only" worthy....have been quite delightful on gold.

Agree with you. Gold is where you need to destroy all types of things: Armor, shields, barriers, health. And as it is its pretty balanced out on these types.
Platinum is mostly Armor and barriers. So things that can frag armor are better there.

Also I've noticed that EVERY SINGLE GUN deemed ''silver worthy'' is useable on gold.
All guns can be used on gold to great effect. Some you just need to ramp up with consumables and the moment someone says theres some sort of shame in amping with consumables my brain turns in its bloody case. People are frigging complaining about how they get too many lvl 4 consumables for crying out loud! There seems to be no shortage from all the complaining!

If people just used what was considered the end all gun like the Piranha the game would become a boring drudge of GI/Piranhas.

Optimal may not be fun for some people. Pisses me off to see comments like ''use something else'' too without anything to back that claim up like a suggestion on what to use.

/RANT!

Modifié par Ziegrif, 25 septembre 2012 - 07:17 .

[corporal doody]

Ziegrif wrote...

corporal doody wrote...
ive said it once...i will say it again....
BALANCING ANYTHING BASED OFF of how it performs in platinum is STRAIGHT STUPID!
gold....is where it is at!!
i havent tried it on gold yet...so i have yet to form a "On Gold" opinion.
however...i have noticed certain weapons that this community has deemed "Silver only" worthy....have been quite delightful on gold.

Agree with you. Gold is where you need to destroy all types of things: Armor, shields, barriers, health. And as it is its pretty balanced out on these types.
Platinum is mostly Armor and barriers. So things that can frag armor are better there.

Also I've noticed that EVERY SINGLE GUN deemed ''silver worthy'' is useable on gold.
All guns can be used on gold to great effect. Some you just need to ramp up with consumables and the moment someone says theres some sort of shame in amping with consumables my brain turns in its bloody case. People are frigging complaining about how they get too many lvl 4 consumables for crying out loud! There seems to be no shortage from all the complaining!

If people just used what was considered the end all gun like the Piranha the game would become a boring drudge of GI/Piranhas.

Optimal may not be fun for some people. Pisses me off to see comments like ''use something else'' too without anything to back that claim up like a suggestion on what to use.

/RANT!

WOW!!

i like you

edit: ALSO...did Franken Fran ever become an anime? im so damned behind. i kinda stopped watching anime..i stick to manga...but when it comes to Comic Blade....im still on July 2010....my room is full of books.. (Gangan, Blade, Gundam Ace, Shonen Ace, Shonen Jump, Champion Red, Weekly Champion, Shonen Sunday, Dragon Age, Newtype Ace, Valkyrie).  expensive...but still cheaper than buying the translated stuff

Modifié par corporal doody, 25 septembre 2012 - 07:30 .

[Ziegrif]

corporal doody wrote...
WOW!!

i like you

edit: ALSO...did Franken Fran ever become an anime? im so damned behind. i kinda stopped watching anime..i stick to manga...but when it comes to Comic Blade....im still on July 2010....my room is full of books.. (Gangan, Blade, Gundam Ace, Shonen Ace, Shonen Jump, Champion Red, Weekly Champion, Shonen Sunday, Dragon Age, Newtype Ace, Valkyrie).  expensive...but still cheaper than buying the translated stuff

I believe no. Franken Fran did not become an anime. I did hear some news about a cd drama and there was a clip about that on youtube, but after that it kinda slipped out of my radar.

I only watch choice things nowadays. Things like Code Geass and Some gundam things. Mostly finished new stuff and rarely.

Manga I read here and there. Mostly things I've already read like Fran and Akumetsu. Mostly blood and gore genre. Should start reading Monster again.

Frankly though I've dropped out of the anime/manga loop. Focus on Video Game and science related news nowadays.

Well enough off topicness so Argus! RABBLE RABBLE!

[Big Jack Shepard]

Colonel Sheppard wrote...

A friend and I attempted several loadouts and config to see if we could make the Argus X work.  It could use a 10-15% buff to make it awesome, but right now, spec out your equipment right, and it's almost as good as the Saber X.  I won't specify how to use the gun because I don't want to spoil your discovery.  I haven't used the Mattock in a long time, but I think the Argus is definitely better than that gun.  I don't know the specific DPS vs the Mattock, but I know in real practice, it's a darn good gun.  You must use it right and spec your load out correctly.  Two Argus with the loadout I'm thinking will rip through any boss in no time.  It's pretty good with Phantoms too.  Level IV ammo were not involved.

If in 2 days, no one has figured out how to spec a  loud out for the Argus, I'll post the answer... if I remember.  The hint I will tell you is this, it hits pretty hard.  It also pops like the Saber.  Focus on the word pops.  What could the Saber pop?  Later this week, I may do all Argus runs.  Much like the particle rife, my initial assessment of this gun was all wrong.  It's definitely top 4 assault rifle... if you spec your load out right.

Oh geez, I'm just dying to hear how this gun might be almost as good as my Saber X. I think I might be getting the vapors.

[Grunt_Platform]

whateverman7 wrote...

my bad, didnt see your post...now my retort:

i didnt use it on a turian soldier....i used it on a human engineer...the same character i use a vindicator on...the only mods i used were stability and extended barrel (weapon, not consumable)...and t worked fine...i didnt say there wasnt spread, i said the spread isnt as bad as yall trying to make it out to be

The spread exists. It is not trivial. It's enough to miss at long range. That's all I have to say on it since it's that big a deal.

And Sentinel. Not Soldier. I wouldn't use a burst-fire weapon like this on the Turian Soldier. Terrible synergy with Marksman.

so you noticed the .40 difference in bursts too huh? lol i doubt it...and you just said it performed better than the vindicator, but since it was significantly, it doesnt count?

Doubt all you like, I noticed it. Considering the bulk of what happens in the game is reflexes taking less than a second, why do you doubt this so much? A second is a long time in this game.  0.4 seconds is a whole 24 frames at 60hz. Roughly 10 frames at the 24fps rate of movies. That's enough time for the coin sound from Super Mario to play twice in a row. That's easily long enough for people to notice.

Annnd no. I said the performance was not significantly better. It was able to pop some heads but never when it mattered, and at least the Vindicator fires fast and accurately enough to stagger a few guys getting close. If it was any better than the Vindicator, we're talking 5% better weapon damage in exchange for worse handling and twice the weight. This is exactly what the numbers show, unsurprisingly. Due to the added weight, I'd say using the Argus was dragging my overall damage output down, compared to what it would be with the Vindicator, since at least with the Vindicator I could spam my powers a bit more.

i've only compared it to the vindicator cause they are similar burst fire weapons...the rev is a full auto, so why would i compare them?...if you do compare them, the rev's cons compared to argus: has worse accuracy, does less damage, and more recoil; pros: rate of fire and lighter....so no, it doesnt do everything better than the argus...which would i use first? the rev cause of the weight advantage^_^

They're both relatively heavy assault rifles. They're both rare weapons. That warrents comparison. Similarly, it bears comparing to the Saber and Harrier, but seeing as those guns are amazing and the Argus just isnt, that would probably be overkill

if i use it i'm handicapping my team? lol if you say so....the bsn is a funny place...anyway, am i saying it's the best AR? no...but it damn sure isnt as bad as yall trying to make it seem....

Here's the thing: It's worse than every other option for that weapon slot. There is actually a legitimate case for the Avenger or Geth Pulse Rifle being better choices for an Assault Rifle. It doesn't matter that the gun works—every gun does—it matters how it measures up to the competition. And yes, using a heavy gun with theoretical DPS barely better than some of the weakest guns in the game is hurting your team. You're putting out less damage, forcing them to do more work. On Silver or Bronze this probably wouldn't be a problem. On Gold or Platinum though?..

If you have fun with it, that's great. I personally love the way the gun handles and the way it sounds. But this gun isn't just sub-optimal. It's Disciple-tier weak. This is a very sad thing, since it would actually be fairly powerful... if its encumbrance were only 0.7.

Modifié par EvanKester, 25 septembre 2012 - 10:51 .

[Wynne]

Colonel Sheppard wrote...

People's opinion of this gun reminds me of early opinions of the Hurricane and Particle Rifle, both of which are stronger than the Harrier per level. I remember people complain about how the Hurricane sucked because of the kick. I'll say this, the three round burst with lvs I Ap round took 1-1.5 bars of armor on an Atlas and kills an assault trooper instantly. I was killing centurions with two 3 round bursts. Killed phantoms with three 3 round bursts. Some guns are easy to use and are targeted at skill-less players, like the Harrier. Other require a bit of mastery, like the hurricane and ppr. The Argus requires mastery.

You might be right about the Argus, I haven't tested mine yet, but the reason people said the Hurricane sucked is because it quite frankly did. Much like all SMGs except for the Hornet, which was still outclassed by weapons in other categories. If you have to put a gun on a turian soldier and/or add some damage consumables to make it good and probably shouldn't take it above Bronze even then, it is not good. The Hurricane got noticeable improvements to damage, recoil, etc. and I now use it on a fair number of my caster characters--because it now no longer sucks and is in fact about as good as an N7 challenge-level weapon ought to be. I can at last use it on Gold even without the stability mod, on some characters (Vanguards, particularly)--previously, it was so annoying to use that I didn't even take it to Bronze. If only the Eagle would get the same treatment, some of my friends would be happier.

Some guns may seem to suck but just take some getting used to, like the Carbine. You try it, you go "Oh, this is actually incredibly good for short range." So with a bit of strategizing you can make it work extremely well on any difficulty, with the right character. Then there are guns like the Acolyte, which at least have a purpose and can be used by skilled players (who are not me, but I can admit it doesn't suck on someone who can use it.) Other guns, like the original Hurricane, are outperformed left and right and passed over for staples like the Avenger. 

I think some people just forget what the Hurricane was actually like before the buffs. Back then, only Bronze-playing "I don't care if I'm on the bottom" people and "I can make ANYTHING work on ANY difficulty and ANY character" braggarts were saying it was good. Regardless of whether the latter category was correct or not, guns should be balanced for the average player to be able to use effectively on Gold, not the top 1%. The Argus may or may not need it, but the categories still don't feel as separate as they should. Unlocks should be exciting, not underwhelming.

Regardless, I think we can all agree that more balancing still needs to be done in general. There should at least be an identifiable difference between the guns you get and upgrade easily, and the guns which you can only unlock and upgrade by the time you're playing Gold (or lots of Silver.) 

[Bzilla]

I tried the Argus X with stability + ext barrel on a Turian Soldier with AP IV ammo on gold last night. I was surprised at how there was little to no recoil and how it was actually a decent gun. It was nice to have the enemy stagger, but the Argus just isn't my cup of tea when I have the Saber to choose from.

I might mess around with this setup on silver and focus on hitting the baddies in the face, but it just wasn't as fun (for me at least) on gold.

[corporal doody]

rocked it on gold as a Asari Justicar and as a Human Soldier. not bad AT ALL!!


AND ANY ARGUMENT that states the Vindicator is better than the Argus IN ANY WAY....is straight silly...and the person saying it needs to be beaten with goose feathers and stabbed with poisonous darts.

Modifié par corporal doody, 25 septembre 2012 - 02:26 .

[whateverman7]

EvanKester wrote...

1. The spread exists. It is not trivial. It's enough to miss at long range. That's all I have to say on it since it's that big a deal.

And Sentinel. Not Soldier. I wouldn't use a burst-fire weapon like this on the Turian Soldier. Terrible synergy with Marksman.

2. Doubt all you like, I noticed it. Considering the bulk of what happens in the game is reflexes taking less than a econd, why do you doubt this so much? A second is a long time in this game.  0.4 seconds is a whole 24 frames at 60hz. Roughly 10 frames at the 24fps rate of movies. That's enough time for the coin sound from Super Mario to play twice in a row. That's easily long enough for people to notice.

3. Annnd no. I said the performance was not significantly better. It was able to pop some heads but never when it mattered, and at least the Vindicator fires fast and accurately enough to stagger a few guys getting close. If it was any better than the Vindicator, we're talking 5% better weapon damage in exchange for worse handling and twice the weight. This is exactly what the numbers show, unsurprisingly. Due to the added weight, I'd say using the Argus was dragging my overall damage output down, compared to what it would be with the Vindicator, since at least with the Vindicator I could spam my powers a bit more.

4. They're both relatively heavy assault rifles. They're both rare weapons. That warrents comparison. Similarly, it bears comparing to the Saber and Harrier, but seeing as those guns are amazing and the Argus just isnt, that would probably be overkill

5. Here's the thing: It's worse than every other option for that weapon slot. There is actually a legitimate case for the Avenger or Geth Pulse Rifle being better choices for an Assault Rifle. It doesn't matter that the gun works—every gun does—it matters how it measures up to the competition. And yes, using a heavy gun with theoretical DPS barely better than some of the weakest guns in the game is hurting your team. You're putting out less damage, forcing them to do more work. On Silver or Bronze this probably wouldn't be a problem. On Gold or Platinum though?..

If you have fun with it, that's great. I personally love the way the gun handles and the way it sounds. But this gun isn't just sub-optimal. It's Disciple-tier weak. This is a very sad thing, since it would actually be fairly powerful... if its encumbrance were only 0.7.

*i took out my quotes to shorten the post and put numbers by your repsonses to make it easier to follow*

1. it's trivial to me cause i didnt miss at long range...the stability mod helped that not happen....i was mistaken about which turian you used....

2. i doubt cause .40 of a sec you arent notcing in the game...yea, the game is about reflexes, but you arent noticing .40 of a sec....play the game and count to 1, and see how much you actually notice....now take that and cut it in half and see how much you notice....

3. in your initial post, you said it performed better, not significantly....so my question was if it performed better, why didnt that count? was it because it wasnt significantly?....as for the rest, i dont know how you play, so i take your word for that

4. the only thing they have in common is they are heavy...they arent similar guns....i wouldnt sub the argus for the harrior/saber/rev, so i see no need to compare them...the vindicator, a similar gun, i could see, that's why i compare them...

5. that's your opinion...i dont think it's the worst AR...even if was, everything in this game can be used to be effective in the game on any difficulty...it's all about how you use it....again with hurting my team huh? lol if you say so....you've never played with me, so you wouldnt know...if you did, i highly doubt you'd say i'm hurting the team in anyway....i actually like the disciple, and dont think that's a weak gun...but that's a convo for another thread