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So... the Argus is actually not a bad gun


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#151
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whateverman7 wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

1. The spread exists. It is not trivial. It's enough to miss at long range. That's all I have to say on it since it's that big a deal.

And Sentinel. Not Soldier. I wouldn't use a burst-fire weapon like this on the Turian Soldier. Terrible synergy with Marksman.

2. Doubt all you like, I noticed it. Considering the bulk of what happens in the game is reflexes taking less than a econd, why do you doubt this so much? A second is a long time in this game.  0.4 seconds is a whole 24 frames at 60hz. Roughly 10 frames at the 24fps rate of movies. That's enough time for the coin sound from Super Mario to play twice in a row. That's easily long enough for people to notice.

3. Annnd no. I said the performance was not significantly better. It was able to pop some heads but never when it mattered, and at least the Vindicator fires fast and accurately enough to stagger a few guys getting close. If it was any better than the Vindicator, we're talking 5% better weapon damage in exchange for worse handling and twice the weight. This is exactly what the numbers show, unsurprisingly. Due to the added weight, I'd say using the Argus was dragging my overall damage output down, compared to what it would be with the Vindicator, since at least with the Vindicator I could spam my powers a bit more.

4. They're both relatively heavy assault rifles. They're both rare weapons. That warrents comparison. Similarly, it bears comparing to the Saber and Harrier, but seeing as those guns are amazing and the Argus just isnt, that would probably be overkill

5. Here's the thing: It's worse than every other option for that weapon slot. There is actually a legitimate case for the Avenger or Geth Pulse Rifle being better choices for an Assault Rifle. It doesn't matter that the gun works—every gun does—it matters how it measures up to the competition. And yes, using a heavy gun with theoretical DPS barely better than some of the weakest guns in the game is hurting your team. You're putting out less damage, forcing them to do more work. On Silver or Bronze this probably wouldn't be a problem. On Gold or Platinum though?..

If you have fun with it, that's great. I personally love the way the gun handles and the way it sounds. But this gun isn't just sub-optimal. It's Disciple-tier weak. This is a very sad thing, since it would actually be fairly powerful... if its encumbrance were only 0.7.


*i took out my quotes to shorten the post and put numbers by your repsonses to make it easier to follow*

1. it's trivial to me cause i didnt miss at long range...the stability mod helped that not happen....i was mistaken about which turian you used....

2. i doubt cause .40 of a sec you arent notcing in the game...yea, the game is about reflexes, but you arent noticing .40 of a sec....play the game and count to 1, and see how much you actually notice....now take that and cut it in half and see how much you notice....

3. in your initial post, you said it performed better, not significantly....so my question was if it performed better, why didnt that count? was it because it wasnt significantly?....as for the rest, i dont know how you play, so i take your word for that

4. the only thing they have in common is they are heavy...they arent similar guns....i wouldnt sub the argus for the harrior/saber/rev, so i see no need to compare them...the vindicator, a similar gun, i could see, that's why i compare them...

5. that's your opinion...i dont think it's the worst AR...even if was, everything in this game can be used to be effective in the game on any difficulty...it's all about how you use it....again with hurting my team huh? lol if you say so....you've never played with me, so you wouldnt know...if you did, i highly doubt you'd say i'm hurting the team in anyway....i actually like the disciple, and dont think that's a weak gun...but that's a convo for another thread


If you think the Disciple is good, your posts have lost all validity in my eyes.

#152
DNC Protoman

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Argus is terrrible.

End thread.

#153
whateverman7

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death_for_sale wrote...

I did two videos, one with the Vindicator and one with the Argus. You can clearly see that the Argus had a longer delay between bursts. This is not an opinion but simple, quantifiable fact. It also has an atrociously long reload time, even with reload cancel.

The Vindicator is an uncommon weapon, balanced around Silver. The Argus is a rare, balanced for Gold. Yet the Vindicator is only slightly slower killing a Gold Prime and I gimped it by using the same mods as the Argus. I could have pulled the stability mod and slapped AP on it, which would have caused it to kill the Prime faster than the Argus, which HAS to have stability mods.

You then mention the Revenant, which when given the same level of Stability mods as everyone is suggesting for the Argus, does a ton more damage due to clip size and RoF. The Revenant will SHRED the Argus in any comparison, it is a balanced rare AR.

As someone mentioned before, where is the Argus trying to fit in? If it is simply supposed to be a Gold version of the Vindicator, then it is woefully underpowered because the Vindicator is very good at Silver and the Argus is simply not good at Gold. If it is supposed to be a hard hitting AR like the Saber, it doesn't do enough damage. If it is supposed to be a CQC weapon, it is outclassed by every single shotgun and quite a few pistols. It fires too slowly to be a good ammo effect application weapon.

If you want to use it for the challenge, be my guest. Just don't expect logical people with extensive game experience to consider it to be GOOD.


*you dont like the gun, so how do i know you didnt play your best to try to make it look bad?...you know what, i'm take your word for it and say you tried your best with both guns, so let's continue:

we've established the burst is a lil slower...it's not as slower/longer as you trying to make it seem though....cause .40 of a sec is not a long time....also, i said the reload was an advantage for the vindicator

as for what's balanced around what difficulty, yall are full of it with that....everything, i repeat, everything can be used in this game effectively on any difficulty....i know yall might not wanna think so, but that's a quantifiable fact, as you say....stability mods arent needed for both, but they help both especially when you zoom and shoot

i only mentioned the rev cause the other person brought it up...i've only compared the gun to the vindicator so far...but since you wanna bring it up to, no the rev will not shred the argus in any comparison...the argus has better damage and control than the rev...the rev is lighter and full auto, which are advantages over the argus

as for where it's trying to fit in, it's a stronger vindicator...it's a burst fire AR....also, i go back to my other point: no matter what yall wanna think, everything in this game can be used on any difficulty....some work better than others, but everything can be used...

so now i'm only using it for the challenge, i'm illogical, and i dont have extensive game experience? lol....i swear, its comments like that, that make me wanna go buy a pc or xbox, just to shut some of yall the **** up....some of yall think yall are the best thing since slice bread when it comes to this game, and that only yall opinions matter cause yall post vids about speed runs, brag about builds, some score you got, etc....it's other people that are just as good, if not better than yall that just dont talk about the **** they do...anyway, i'll just say: if you say so.

#154
whateverman7

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death_for_sale wrote...

If you think the Disciple is good, your posts have lost all validity in my eyes.


lol ok

#155
rmccowen

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whateverman7 wrote...

we've established the burst is a lil slower...it's not as slower/longer as you trying to make it seem though....cause .40 of a sec is not a long time....also, i said the reload was an advantage for the vindicator

It's a long time (multiple people have already made this point, but apparently it bears re-iterating). Among other things, it's long enough to fire a second burst from the Vindicator.

I know you're not a big believer in "spreadsheets", or apparently any kind of evidence, but the Argus maxes out at a firing rate of 1.01s per burst, for single-mag DPS of 489.5. It fires 8 bursts before reloading, meaning that (neglecting reload-cancel, for the moment) it provides sustained DPS of 360.2. That's sub-Avenger damage, which is... not a good sign.

But let's compare it to the Saber, as the OP suggests. A Saber I does 13% less damage than an Argus X, but fires 33% faster, for 15% better sustained DPS--and that's not accounting for the fact that the Saber has much better handling characteristics (i.e., drastically lower aim error and recoil).

Any weapon is viable on any difficulty, but that doesn't change the fact that the Argus is problematic. It is indeed a Vindicator that does twice as much damage--at half the firing rate, twice the weight, and three times the recoil. It's an underperforming weapon by any reasonable standard, and I'm looking forward to buffs.

#156
corporal doody

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death_for_sale wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

rocked it on gold as a Asari Justicar and as a Human Soldier. not bad AT ALL!!


AND ANY ARGUMENT that states the Vindicator is better than the Argus IN ANY WAY....is straight silly...and the person saying it needs to be beaten with goose feathers and stabbed with poisonous darts.


I would love to see a video or some other proof other than your anecdotal evidence. In lieu of that, I did a straight test of the Vindicator versus the Argus against a Gold Geth Prime. The Argus barely beat out the Vindicator in kill time. Had I pulled the stability mod from the Vindicator and added the AP mod, which would have been easy to do since the Vindicator spread is no where NEAR the spread on the Argus, the Vindicator would have beaten the Argus.

I posted a link to the videos earlier in this thread. The Argus is not worthy of being a Rare; anyone who says it is, is trolling or simply doesn't understand the simplest thing about this game.


WOW! 

Video or it didnt happen?? seriously???????

you think you rate?  i tell you what..How about YOU TAKE the ARGUS X on gold and try it out.    or like i made the comment in game.....It is like when a carpenter blames his tools....yadda yadda..... PEOPLE ON THE BSN GONNA ****** & MOAN TO ****** & MOAN.

better yet....DONT. Your bias against is more than evident....any video you post in regards to the weapon is BS. i mean VINDICATOr? FOR REAL DAWG?   HAHAHAHA! i smell weak sauce all over the place with that one.


stability mod......PLUS........stability eqiupment or barrage gear (% for stability and ammo capacity).  ACCURACY greatly increased.....kick minimized.


and seriously dude....IM GONNA THROW UP THE BS FLAG!!! Vindicator X is not gonna be better than the Argus X regardless of mods. 

then again....i can rock a scimitar and beat out a claymore user....so maybe im just awesome? (YEAH I JUST SAID THAT!!)

You give me a raptor on a human engineer...the quarian infiltrator can rock the black widow....we will bang okay



THESE...." SUCH AND SUCH WEAPON SUCKS SO BUFF IT" threads/posts earn my ire!

Modifié par corporal doody, 25 septembre 2012 - 06:43 .


#157
whateverman7

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rmccowen wrote...

It's a long time (multiple people have already made this point, but apparently it bears re-iterating). Among other things, it's long enough to fire a second burst from the Vindicator.

I know you're not a big believer in "spreadsheets", or apparently any kind of evidence, but the Argus maxes out at a firing rate of 1.01s per burst, for single-mag DPS of 489.5. It fires 8 bursts before reloading, meaning that (neglecting reload-cancel, for the moment) it provides sustained DPS of 360.2. That's sub-Avenger damage, which is... not a good sign.

But let's compare it to the Saber, as the OP suggests. A Saber I does 13% less damage than an Argus X, but fires 33% faster, for 15% better sustained DPS--and that's not accounting for the fact that the Saber has much better handling characteristics (i.e., drastically lower aim error and recoil).

Any weapon is viable on any difficulty, but that doesn't change the fact that the Argus is problematic. It is indeed a Vindicator that does twice as much damage--at half the firing rate, twice the weight, and three times the recoil. It's an underperforming weapon by any reasonable standard, and I'm looking forward to buffs.


so, even though it didnt seem like a long time to me, i'm just suppose to ignore what i experienced with the gun cause others think it took a long time? lol if you say so

i didnt say i'm not a believer in spreadsheet info, i think that info is correct number wise.... what i i said was i dont use it when talking about what's good/not good in a game....reason: the game isnt played on spreadsheets...a lot of the bsn quotes numbers from spreadsheets and that's the end all, be all.....they see 1 number is better than another number, so that means whatever has the better number is better....and that's not true....spreadsheets tell you what a gun can do under set conditions...they dont tell you how the gun fits your play style, how it does against shields/armor/barriers, etc....yea, you get numbers, but they are just that: numbers...you cant really judge until you experience the reload, the recoil, the weight effect on your powers, etc., actually use it....

the OP might have, but i didnt compare the saber cause i dont think they are comparable....also, the saber does more damage than the argus

being problematic and saying the gun isnt good are 2 different things...all the so called problems, except rate of fire & weight, can be fixed with mods...which is true for every weapon....if they buff it, cool, but the currently the gun is not as bad as some of yall are claiming it is...

but i understand, this is the bsn...if a new gun doesnt kill things instantly on gold/plat, it's a horrible gun and needs buffs....if it does, it's overpowered, and needs nerfs Image IPB

#158
Grunt_Platform

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whateverman7 wrote...
i actually like the disciple, and dont think that's a weak gun...but that's a convo for another thread

What. :mellow:

I was going to go over this point by point, but then this happened.

There's really no point to this at all is there.

#159
corporal doody

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EvanKester wrote...

whateverman7 wrote...
i actually like the disciple, and dont think that's a weak gun...but that's a convo for another thread

What. :mellow:

I was going to go over this point by point, but then this happened.

There's really no point to this at all is there.


i love the disciple...but it is weak. if any weapon needs a buff...it is the disciple. even if the damage is not, if the stagger % increased as well as the duration of the stagger would be good enuff for me


but it too is a weapon i can do GOOD with...so maybe it aint the weapons....but me?

Modifié par corporal doody, 25 septembre 2012 - 06:49 .


#160
NeedsMoreCowb3ll

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The Argus could use more cowbell.

#161
Ziegrif

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NeedsMoreCowb3ll wrote...

The Argus could use more cowbell.


Woah. My mind just. Woah.
I'd love a cowbell on my argus. :o
It'd jingle jingle. o.o

#162
Grunt_Platform

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corporal doody wrote...

i love the disciple...but it is weak. if any weapon needs a buff...it is the disciple. even if the damage is not, if the stagger % increased as well as the duration of the stagger would be good enuff for me


but it too is a weapon i can do GOOD with...so maybe it aint the weapons....but me?

That's the thing. Any halfway decent player with a vague awareness of the mechanics and a brain in there head can do well with any weapon in the game. There are no longer any weapons so bad that you can't finish gold with them.

#163
corporal doody

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EvanKester wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

i love the disciple...but it is weak. if any weapon needs a buff...it is the disciple. even if the damage is not, if the stagger % increased as well as the duration of the stagger would be good enuff for me


but it too is a weapon i can do GOOD with...so maybe it aint the weapons....but me?

That's the thing. Any halfway decent player with a vague awareness of the mechanics and a brain in there head can do well with any weapon in the game. There are no longer any weapons so bad that you can't finish gold with them.


exactly!! so why does this thread exist??? for that matter....why all these...SO AND SO WEAPON that i think isnt OP like the OP weapon SUCKs....and needs to be buffed..TYPE THREADS.



people wanna ****** & moan.

Modifié par corporal doody, 25 septembre 2012 - 07:04 .


#164
jpraelster93

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No the argus sucks

#165
corporal doody

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imho.....

-is the weapon too heavy for what it can do? Yes
-is it viable on gold? YES (as is every other weapon)
-did i have fun using it in my gold matches? yes...yes i did. everytime that 3rd round popped the top of a phantoms head off was delicious. Popping that Nemesis in the extraction spot through the wall halfway accross the map on jade...so so sweet. once the atlas' shield is gone...with ap ammo...atlas melts pretty damned fast
-would i use the weapon again? yes
-do i think it is a weapon i would use on a regular basis? i dunno. again...the weight hurts it (NOT THE DAMAGE)
-does it suck? No. it is just heavy
-would i take the vindicator over the argus? Do you wanna get smacked??? i would take the predator over the vindicator tbh. i would take the avenger over the vindicator. i dislike the feel of it. it is a pea-shooter.

Modifié par corporal doody, 25 septembre 2012 - 07:13 .


#166
Blarg

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 I'm actually going to agree with the OP. With a stability mod, barage upgrade, and Turian Soldier it has no recoil at all. Add to that the TSol's Marksman ability and start tearing through mobs. Not so great against bosses in my opinion, but it's still pretty high up on my assault rifle list.
Preparing my flame shield now. :wizard:

#167
Grunt_Platform

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corporal doody wrote...

imho.....

-is the weapon too heavy for what it can do? Yes
-is it viable on gold? YES (as is every other weapon)
-did i have fun using it in my gold matches? yes...yes i did. everytime that 3rd round popped the top of a phantoms head off was delicious. Popping that Nemesis in the extraction spot through the wall halfway accross the map on jade...so so sweet. once the atlas' shield is gone...with ap ammo...atlas melts pretty damned fast
-would i use the weapon again? yes
-do i think it is a weapon i would use on a regular basis? i dunno. again...the weight hurts it (NOT THE DAMAGE)
-does it suck? No. it is just heavy
-would i take the vindicator over the argus? Do you wanna get smacked??? i would take the predator over the vindicator tbh. i would take the avenger over the vindicator. i dislike the feel of it. it is a pea-shooter.


Personally, I'd rather see the current vindicator buffed to do damage like the argus currently does, and the damage of the argus buffed to be worth its weight.

Nobody's saying that the Argus's damage is just low. It's low for a gun with 1.4 encumbrance. Given how it handles, it'd be nice if it had slightly better than average damage for its weight.

Modifié par EvanKester, 25 septembre 2012 - 07:15 .


#168
corporal doody

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EvanKester wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

exactly!! so why does this thread exist??? for that matter....why all these...SO AND SO WEAPON that i think isnt OP like the OP weapon SUCKs....and needs to be buffed..TYPE THREADS.



people wanna ****** & moan.


I for one would like the Argus to be strong enough that it's worth using compared to other heavy assault rifles.

Most people are just stating a fact. The Argus is currently a garbage-tier weapon. Some attention is being brought to that since, frankly, as something new in the game it'd be nice if it were actually worth using over the competition.

Could be much worse. We could be saying the Argus isn't worthy of a buff, or that the only way to improve it is to make it handle exactly like another gun.


new shouldnt automatically equal better. tiss why we have the piranha problem imho. some would say the harrier is there too.

the argus...as well as other weapons COULD use a buff...but if it doesnt come so be it.

but i wouldnt call it garbage. i wouldnt put it in the katana and vindicator catagory.  it is sad that WE on the BSN feel the only way to get attention is to WHINE like it was going out of style. I blame the Retakers on that one.

i would take the Mattock, Harrier, or Saber over the Argus. not bad imho. the  Phaeston (with extended barrel and ap mod) pretty close.

#169
rmccowen

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whateverman7 wrote...

so, even though it didnt seem like a long time to me, i'm just suppose to ignore what i experienced with the gun cause others think it took a long time? lol if you say so

No, but it would be nice if you thought for even a moment about all the other things you could be doing in 0.4s. I'll put it another way: in the time it takes to fire a single burst from the Argus, you can fire ten rounds from a Revenant, with the same accuracy as the Argus and less recoil. In the time it takes to fire two Argus bursts, you can fire and reload a Claymore.

The Argus doesn't put out enough damage, not because its rounds are too weak but because the firing delay is atrocious--and, stepping away from math for a moment, it feels atrocious. I can tell that the Vindicator fires much faster. I can tell that my Argus II feels weaker than a Phaeston. For lulz, I equipped my GI with the Argus and Eagle and jumped into a Bronze solo--and the Eagle was noticeably more reliable.

When the Argus is firing, it's kind of nice, in a put-it-on-a-Turian-with-stability-mods sort of way. But currently the ratio of time spent firing to time spent waiting around to fire again is way too long for the available damage output. I don't think it would take much to make it a good gun--nudge the fire rate up to make shots cluster more closely in time, and cut the minimum refire time to, say, 0.4 or 0.5s.

i didnt say i'm not a believer in spreadsheet info, i think that info is correct number wise.... what i i said was i dont use it when talking about what's good/not good in a game....reason: the game isnt played on spreadsheets...a lot of the bsn quotes numbers from spreadsheets and that's the end all, be all.....they see 1 number is better than another number, so that means whatever has the better number is better....and that's not true....spreadsheets tell you what a gun can do under set conditions...they dont tell you how the gun fits your play style, how it does against shields/armor/barriers, etc....yea, you get numbers, but they are just that: numbers...you cant really judge until you experience the reload, the recoil, the weight effect on your powers, etc., actually use it....

First, and I'm trying to be nice here, but you need to learn to punctuate sentences correctly. Language is useful when it allows people to communicate, and part of the signaling function of language is embedded in structure. An occasional ellipsis helps indicate tone; ending every clause and every sentence with an ellipsis makes it impossible to distinguish between the two, and not incidentally makes you sound like you have advanced dementia.

Second, numbers are valuable in context. Here, the context is often unstated because it's held in common--but as Cyonan points out, theorycraft isn't a substitute for experience. If you think I'm omitting something important from the experience of using the Argus, feel free to point that out, but upthread you accused someone of quoting a "spreadsheet" as if that alone disproved their point. It doesn't.

being problematic and saying the gun isnt good are 2 different things...all the so called problems, except rate of fire & weight, can be fixed with mods...

Yes: all the problems with the Argus, except the ones that make the gun underpowered, can be fixed with mods. That's why it's underpowered.

but i understand, this is the bsn...if a new gun doesnt kill things instantly on gold/plat, it's a horrible gun and needs buffs....if it does, it's overpowered, and needs nerfs Image IPB

No.

If a rare weapon is noticeably less effective than multiple uncommon guns in the same class, it probably needs some help. If it consistently outperforms everything in its own group, particularly against bosses, it's overpowered. This is not a subtle or imaginary distinction.

#170
BlackbirdSR-71C

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blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

 I'm actually going to agree with the OP. With a stability mod, barage upgrade, and Turian Soldier it has no recoil at all. Add to that the TSol's Marksman ability and start tearing through mobs. Not so great against bosses in my opinion, but it's still pretty high up on my assault rifle list.
Preparing my flame shield now. :wizard:


1. With the Turian Soldiers class talent, a stability mod and the barrage gear mod you achieve between -135 and -155% recoil. You're wasting a gear slot/skill points!

2. It may be "good" in your eyes on a Turian Soldier, but it's still quite worse than other weapons (Harrier, Mattock, Sabre) on the same build.

#171
Maker MEDA

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So you have headshot bonus spec to max and aiming for heads with a stability mod, yeah that works with 3 shots triple tapping it. Possibly with an infiltrator bonus? It's still too little to work with for most classes and somewhat limiting. Against mooks only.

#172
Grunt_Platform

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corporal doody wrote...
new shouldnt automatically equal better. tiss why we have the piranha problem imho. some would say the harrier is there too.

the argus...as well as other weapons COULD use a buff...but if it doesnt come so be it.

but i wouldnt call it garbage. i wouldnt put it in the katana and vindicator catagory.  it is sad that WE on the BSN feel the only way to get attention is to WHINE like it was going out of style. I blame the Retakers on that one.

i would take the Mattock, Harrier, or Saber over the Argus. not bad imho. the  Phaeston (with extended barrel and ap mod) pretty close.


I didn't say new should be better, just that new should be worth using. I just want another assult rifle that's worth using over the Harrier, even if it's just feel thing. I forgot this is BSN, so I'll clarify: to me a gun doesn't have to be better than everything else to be worth using. It only needs to be roughly as good. It could, in fact, be sub-optimal and I would use it just to spice things up, as long as it was effective for its weight.

I would take the Phaeston or the Revenant before the Argus, even on a class that doesn't care about weight. I can't think of a case where I'd prefer it. And that makes me sad, because it is a pretty cool gun.

rmccowen wrote...
If a rare weapon is noticeably less effective than multiple uncommon guns in the same class, it probably needs some help. If it consistently outperforms everything in its own group, particularly against bosses, it's overpowered. This is not a subtle or imaginary distinction.

Pretty much this.

Modifié par EvanKester, 25 septembre 2012 - 07:30 .


#173
corporal doody

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Maker MEDA wrote...

So you have headshot bonus spec to max and aiming for heads with a stability mod, yeah that works with 3 shots triple tapping it. Possibly with an infiltrator bonus? It's still too little to work with for most classes and somewhat limiting. Against mooks only.


on the Human Soldier i had...Stability mod and extended barrel. AP ammo 4, assault rifle 3, cyclonic modulator 3, and barrage gear 4.

on the Asari Justicar i had Stability mod and extended barrel. Ap ammo 4, assault rifle 3, stability equipment 3, and adaptive gear 5(15% biotic damage)

on gold against cerberus. THE ARGUS ALONE. did some serious damage against atlas' and phantoms. with the Soldier....got a 50kill medal...and a 25 assault rifle medal....got most points off of assists.
with the AJ....slap on reaves and the argus cleans up.  


i dunno...sounds like alot of denigration going on.

#174
corporal doody

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EvanKester wrote...


I didn't say new should be better, just that new should be worth using. I just want another assult rifle that's worth using over the Harrier, even if it's just feel thing. I forgot this is BSN, so I'll clarify: to me a gun doesn't have to be better than everything else to be worth using. It only needs to be roughly as good. It could, in fact, be sub-optimal and I would use it just to spice things up, as long as it was effective for its weight.

I would take the Phaeston or the Revenant before the Argus, even on a class that doesn't care about weight. I can't think of a case where I'd prefer it. And that makes me sad, because it is a pretty cool gun.



fair enough.

#175
Cyonan

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whateverman7 wrote...
yet you're posting spreadsheet info to make your case....on spreadsheets, i'm sure the vindicator looks a lot better...i wouldnt know, havent looked at spreadsheets for info about this game....in the game, the only advantages are the weight and reload time(i include that cause a lot of people dont reload cancel)...the recoil from bursts, bout the same; the accuracy, bout the same; the damage, advantage argus....so there's an advantage for the argus

i didnt use a turian to test the argus, i used a human engineer....the same character i have a vindicator on....all i put on it was stability and damage mods (the gun ones, not consumable)....comparing it to the vindicator: it put enemies down faster, but it slowed my power usage down

so now the vindicator isnt a good gun? lol if you say so...i disagree, but this isnt a thread for vindicators


All my points are in-game. Saying over and over "You're just using spreadsheet math!" isn't actually a valid counter-point when I'm not using spreadsheet math.

I find that I can easily control the Vindicator's recoil with 0 stability, while the Argus I'll end up missing a few shots at range. This provides me with a spare mod slot on the Vindicator that can negate the one advantage that the Argus had: Being more damage per shot meant being better against armour.

The Vindicator isn't that good in terms of doing damage. It might be a good "caster" gun, but we generally call it a caster gun because it does poor damage and doesn't weigh much. A moderate weight gun at 1.4 being comparable to a caster gun generally isn't a great sign for the gun.

Traditional "caster" guns are also being rendered irrelevant by a wide variety of powerful lightweight guns. In this case, the Mattock is vastly superior to both guns as it has amazing accuracy without needing scopes or stability mods, does great damage both per shot and overall, and isn't as heavy as the Argus.