263 réponses à ce sujet

[ledod]

Elton John is dead wrote...

I prefer the Warhammer fantasy universe myself, much more interesting.

But back on topic:

Mages suck hard.

Discuss.

you had me at 'suck'

[Ausstig]

Xilizhra wrote...

I never quite got how one of the worst sci-fi series in existence became that popular. I'm hoping it's just for the ultraviolence, because the prospect of that many people being so personally unpleasant as to like the Imperium is rather depressing.

Don't you like ham and cheese? 

The Imperium is both delightfully over the top and an interesting examination of people react to the worst of life; despaire or hope? to keep fighting or give in? 

Stars shine all the brighter against the black night sky.

[BlueMagitek]

Of course, we do not care from whence the blood came, merely that it flows. :/

Anyway, while I tend to take the Templar's side, I wouldn't call it zealotry as much as it is supporting the safety of everyone to a reasonable extent.

[labargegrrrl]

ledod wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

I prefer the Warhammer fantasy universe myself, much more interesting.

But back on topic:

Mages suck hard.

Discuss.

you had me at 'suck'

dude, at least make him buy you dinner first or something.  

[Inquisitor Recon]

I think it is the duty of the Chantry and Templars to find creative uses for mages, as they have by creating the tranquil.

Now imagine mages driven to the point of madness being locked in some sort of device and used as a power source once somebody invents electricity. Clean, green energy for all of Thedas.

[Vexille]

Its simple really... in a medieva setting you value the lives of many people more then the happiness of a few.

being pro mage is essentially being a naive idealist, a pro templar world is just a far safer place and thats not really even debatable.

The road to hell s paved with good intentions and thats what those pro mage good intentions would bring to thedas. Hell.

I'm pro templar not because I hate mages, but because its very obvious that mages are too dangerous to be let out of a circle type environment.

and for the most part mages arent even really oppressed, they dont have it any worse then your average poor peasant in most cases

Modifié par Vexille, 21 novembre 2012 - 10:46 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Vexille wrote...

Its simple really... in a medieval do you value the lives of many people more then the happiness of a few?

being pro mage is essentially being a naive idealist, a pro templar world is just a far safer place and thats not really even debatable.

The road to hell s paved with good intentions and thats what those pro mage good intentions would bring to thedas. Hell.

I'm pro templar not because I hate mages, but because its very obvious that mages are too dangerous to be let out of a circle type environment.

and for the most part mages arent even really oppressed, they dont have it any worse then your average poor peasant in most cases

QFT.

*****

COURAGE, DUTY, HONOR


We call upon our templars, in this our darkest hour, Our way of life is what we're fighting for,
The flag that flies above us, inspires us each day, To give our very best, in every way!

It's a good day to die, When you know the reasons why, thedosians, we fight for what is right,
A noble sacrifice, When duty calls, you pay the price, For the People I will give my life!

Mages love to bi*** and moan, and whine about their days: But you know well the ingrates are all lyin',
Those self-absorbed emos always reach for more: And endager all of us without tryin'

It's a good day to die, When you know the reasons why, Thedosians, we fight for what is right,
A noble sacrifice, When duty calls, you pay the price, For the People I will give my life!

(Courage, Duty, Honor!)

The Maker, he is high above us, The Maker, he makes our spirit soar,
He gives me the strength to carry on, To fight, and win this war!

It's a good day to die, When you know the reasons why,Citizens, we fight for what is right,
(Courage, Duty, Honor!)

A noble sacrifice, When duty calls, you pay the price, For the People I will give my life!
(Courage, Duty, Honor!)

It's a good day to die, When you know the reasons why, Citizens, we fight for what is right,
A noble sacrifice, When duty calls, you pay the price, For the People I will give my life!
(Courage, Duty, Honor!)

For the People I will give my life!



JOIN THE TEMPLARS TODAY AND PROTECT THE INNOCENTS OF THEDAS!

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 21 novembre 2012 - 12:27 .

[Sibu]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Vexille wrote...

Its simple really... in a medieval do you value the lives of many people more then the happiness of a few?

being pro mage is essentially being a naive idealist, a pro templar world is just a far safer place and thats not really even debatable.

The road to hell s paved with good intentions and thats what those pro mage good intentions would bring to thedas. Hell.

I'm pro templar not because I hate mages, but because its very obvious that mages are too dangerous to be let out of a circle type environment.

and for the most part mages arent even really oppressed, they dont have it any worse then your average poor peasant in most cases

QFT.

*****

COURAGE, DUTY, HONOR


We call upon our templars, in this our darkest hour, Our way of life is what we're fighting for,
The flag that flies above us, inspires us each day, To give our very best, in every way!

It's a good day to die, When you know the reasons why, thedosians, we fight for what is right,
A noble sacrifice, When duty calls, you pay the price, For the People I will give my life!

Mages love to bi*** and moan, and whine about their days: But you know well the ingrates are all lyin',
Those self-absorbed emos always reach for more: And endager all of us without tryin'

It's a good day to die, When you know the reasons why, Thedosians, we fight for what is right,
A noble sacrifice, When duty calls, you pay the price, For the People I will give my life!

(Courage, Duty, Honor!)

The Maker, he is high above us, The Maker, he makes our spirit soar,
He gives me the strength to carry on, To fight, and win this war!

It's a good day to die, When you know the reasons why,Citizens, we fight for what is right,
(Courage, Duty, Honor!)

A noble sacrifice, When duty calls, you pay the price, For the People I will give my life!
(Courage, Duty, Honor!)

It's a good day to die, When you know the reasons why, Citizens, we fight for what is right,
A noble sacrifice, When duty calls, you pay the price, For the People I will give my life!
(Courage, Duty, Honor!)

For the People I will give my life!



JOIN THE TEMPLARS TODAY AND PROTECT THE INNOCENTS OF THEDAS!

The only good mage is a dead mage!

Glad to see more ST fans around here

[MisterJB]

Speaking seriously for a minute, it just ocurred to me how truly tragic the situation in Andrastian lands truly is.
I was playing some Tevinte related missions. Now, I do not doubt that many slavers are so because they have no other option. The Imperium would crumble without slaves.
But then, there are other slavers like the elven one in DA:O who seemed quite proud of being a slaver. And then it hits me, she is a mundane. The mundanes and mages of Tevinter who serve no one but themselves cooperate better than the ones in Andrastian Nations who only want to protect others and end up fighting each other most of the time.
Maker help us.

Modifié par MisterJB, 25 novembre 2012 - 03:50 .

[thesnake777]

The mage uprising is a disturbing thought. Not only are the circles being overthrown but this allows an opening for the tervinter mages to gain more power.
Do I hate mages? No. However the threat they hold is to great to be left in their hands. Order must be restored.

[3043907]

BIOWARE TAKE A HINT

[3043907]

But back to topic death to people with other worldly powers that let demons in

[3043907]

thesnake777 wrote...

The mage uprising is a disturbing thought. Not only are the circles being overthrown but this allows an opening for the tervinter mages to gain more power.
Do I hate mages? No. However the threat they hold is to great to be left in their hands. Order must be restored.

Enough said my freind

[ImperatorMortis]

Yeah.. Definitely making my Mage character a atheist/Old God worshipper. 

3043907 wrote...



But back to topic death to people with other worldly powers that let demons in

Psh. Black Templars are nothing against the Grey Knights. 



Psykers/Mages ftw. 

Wouldn't be suprised if there was a Dragon Age equivalent to the Grey Knights. I mean alot of this junk is suspiciously like Warhammer 40k. 

You know what? I don't know why I take the Templars so seriously. Its a losing battle. There is no way in hell they would be able to stop the mages. Ever. 

The "magic gene" is in everyone in Dragon Age so there is a never ending supply of mages being born. And despite a Templars anti-magic abilities, mages are far more powerful.

When Templars are hunting mages they're for the most part ganging up on inexperienced young mages. 
In all out battle the Templars will lose everytime. 

MisterJB wrote...

THIS was just the beginning! The mages will not stop until every Chantry is destroyed, the worship of the Maker forbidden in favor of the Old Gods and every mundane is in chains.
Join the Templars! Help us stop this evil!

Who cares?  Atleast the Old Gods are real. The "Maker" is either a fabrication or the Dread Wolf playing you guys for chumps. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 25 novembre 2012 - 07:24 .

[thesnake777]

3043907 wrote...

thesnake777 wrote...

The mage uprising is a disturbing thought. Not only are the circles being overthrown but this allows an opening for the tervinter mages to gain more power.
Do I hate mages? No. However the threat they hold is to great to be left in their hands. Order must be restored.

*snip*
Enough said my freind

Order will be restored. No matter the cost.

[thesnake777]

ImperatorMortis wrote...


Who cares?  Atleast the Old Gods are real. The "Maker" is either a fabrication or the Dread Wolf playing you guys for chumps. 

The old gods are real and the maker is not? was it not one of the old gods who with the help of mages defiled the makers seat of power? or was that the dread wolf playing you mages for fools?

Modifié par thesnake777, 25 novembre 2012 - 07:26 .

[ImperatorMortis]

thesnake777 wrote...

The old gods are real and the maker is not? 

Uh yeah? The Old Gods actually have actual proof that they exist. Shrines that still work, the fact that most of them are corrupted, and leading Darkspawn. 

What does the maker have as proof? Some moldy old books, and legions of gullible fools. 

thesnake777 wrote...
was it not one of the old gods who with the help of mages defiled the makers seat of power?or was that the dread wolf playing you mages for fools?

 

Do you have anything even remotely resembling proof that the Maker ever existed or held any seat of power? Its said that the Mages in their hubris defiled the Golden city, and created Darkspawn/Corrupted the Old Gods.

It was mentioned in Legacy that the "Golden City" was black to begin with, and that they were told to go there.in Dalish lore its mentioned that the Dread Wolf tricked the Gods, and managed to have them sealed away. While he/she/it goes, and does whatever it wants in the world. 

Most of the Old Gods(With the exception of Morrigans child) are sealed away between blights. And the only "God" that seems to have anything even compared to a presence in the world is the Maker. Its perfectly logical to assume that this Maker is a lie, and is mannipulating everyone. 

There's also the fact that the Spirits/Demons of the Fade seem to deny the existence of any "Maker". 

[thesnake777]

ImperatorMortis wrote...
Uh yeah? The Old Gods actually have actual proof that they exist. Shrines that still work, the fact that most of them are corrupted, and leading Darkspawn. 

What does the maker have as proof? Some moldy old books, and legions of gullible fools. 

hahaha, that last line about moldy books made me laugh.
on a serious note you are pointing to the existance of shrines that work as evidence that the old gods are real but you ignore the tons of shrine that have been erected in the makers name. Ah but you want proof that the maker is real. what about andrastes ashes? I think that is proof of the makers existance. 



Yes I do remember what the magistor said. He said it was black when they got there. However that is most likley becuase they set foot on hallowed ground and corrupted it immeditaly. If I remeber correctly it was the old god Dumat that sent them there, with the promise of power and such nonsense. 

Sprits and demons say alot of things, from the maker cant help you to there is no maker. Taking them seriously is a mistake and what they say really cannot be used as evidence that there is no maker. 

Modifié par thesnake777, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:04 .

[Fredward]

-streaks through the thread holding a "Mages deserve to be free!" banner-

[thesnake777]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

-streaks through the thread holding a "Mages deserve to be free!" banner-

Son of a-
GET HIM

[ImperatorMortis]

thesnake777 wrote...

hahaha, that last line about moldy books made me laugh.
on a serious note you are pointing to the existance of shrines that work as evidence that the old gods are real but you ignore the tons of shrine that have been erected in the makers name. Ah but you want proof that the maker is real. 

Yeah but do those shrines actually do anything besides take up space? I thought not. 

thesnake777 wrote...
what about andrastes ashes? I think that is proof of the makers existance. 

Not really. Oghren mentioned that the ashes were affected because of all the Lyrium around it. 
Also one relic which may or may not(most likely not) be legit does not prove the existence of a deity. 

thesnake777 wrote...
Yes I do remember what the magistor said. He said it was black when they got there. However that is most likley becuase they set foot on hallowed ground and corrupted it immeditaly. If I remeber correctly it was the old god Dumat that sent them there, with the promise of power and such nonsense. 

It wouldn't make sense for Dumat to do that from its perspective. If he was the one responsible for tempting the Mages he would be the one responsible for damning himself/the other Gods. He has nothing to gain from that. 

I feel its more likely to believe at this point that the Dread Wolf pretended to be Dumat, to manipulate the mages. Besides the mages didn't actually do anytning wrong by going there. They were simply doing as they were told from a God who most likely helped them out a lot in the past. 

Magister 1: "Hey Magister 2! Dumat told us that if we go to the fade we'll find a Golden City that'll make us Super Mega Awesome!"

Magister 2:



"Dumat is a bro! He's never let us down. Gather up dem slaves. I'm ready to get my Blood Magic on!"

Magister 1: *High fives Magister 2* "You know it bro!"

Yeah they would have pretty much no reason not to trust him. 

thesnake777 wrote...
Sprits and demons say alot of things, from the maker cant help you to there is no maker. Taking them seriously is a mistake and what they say really cannot be used as evidence that there is no maker. 

Please tell me. Why in the world would a Demon or Spirit lie about the existence of The Maker? Honestly? What would a Spirit let alone a Demon have to gain from that? It makes no sense. Demons want your body, they don't care about what God you do/do not worship. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:19 .

[thesnake777]

@ imperatormortis
Demons speak nonsense in order to break you down. or they do it for ****s and giggles..so yea...what they say is really not to be trusted.

Also I did enjoy your spoof on that magisters conversation amongst themselves. I do have to point out that the magister we meet did call out to Dumat and ask why he betrayed them....So...your spoof may well have been spot on....
as to Dumats motivations..If there was a maker he might have not have been able to enter the golden city himself so he could have figured by using the magisters they could do something to F it all up..or he knew what he was doing and didn't realize he could be corrupted by it.

I do love ohgren..however he is not a leading authority on anything beyond killing things and drinking..and trying to sleep with women...however I have never heard of lyrim having the ability to magically restore you from the the brink of death. but oh well.

[ImperatorMortis]

thesnake777 wrote...

Demons speak nonsense in order to break you down. or they do it for ****s and giggles..so yea...what they say is really not to be trusted.

Really? I've never seen that. To be perfectly honest. I don't think I've seen a Demon in DA:O or DA2 who's actually lied about anything. 

And what about Spirits? Why would they lie about the Makers existence? Like I said. It makes no sense. 

thesnake777 wrote...
as to Dumats motivations..If there was a maker he might have not have been able to enter the golden city himself so he could have figured by using the magisters they could do something to F it all up..or he knew what he was doing and didn't realize he could be corrupted by it. 

If that was true something would have happened to seriously change Dumats personality or drive him mad. To consider that. Dumat was the Dragon of Silence. I know its not much to go on, but I feel that name implies that he would have a calm, maybe level headed personality. Based on my interpretation of the word. 

Besides why would Dumat give a **** what the Maker did or thought(If the Maker even existed)? The Maker has never ever made himself known before Andraste. People back then never acknowlaged his existence. Demons, and sprits never acknowlaged his existence. 

Dumat had legions of powerful worshippers that he was looking out for. It makes no sense that he would screw all that up because he "disliked the Maker". Dumat had far too much to lose. 

Really the only thing that makes sense is that the Dread Wolf pretended to be Dumat so he/she/it could screw over everyone on the planet. The Dread Wolf is said to be a trickster God. And lets be perfectly honest here. 

Pretending to one of someones favorite Gods, tricking them into opening Pandora's Box. Simulatneously getting rid of your rivals, dooming all life, and permanently labeling your victims as scapegoats is a pretty damn good troll. 

And why are you so convinced the Maker really exists as he is in spite of all this evidence against him? 
Because Andraste said so? 

thesnake777 wrote...
I do love ohgren..however he is not a leading authority on anything beyond killing things and drinking..and trying to sleep with women...

He's a Dwarf. I'd think he'd know a thing or two about Lyrium, and how it works. Oghren maybe be a brute, and he may be gruff, but he isn't completely ignorant. 

thesnake777 wrote...
however I have never heard of lyrim having the ability to magically restore you from the the brink of death. but oh well.

Thats because Lyrium is magic. Also runes are made from Lyrium, and they can might a sword stay on fire, give you protection, and all manner of things. Who's to say that Lyrius couldn't give ashes healing properties? 

Or better yet. Who's to say some Mage in Andraste's days didn't put an enchantment on her ashes(It would be hilarious if they used Blood Magic to do it too.)? 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 25 novembre 2012 - 08:58 .

[thats1evildude]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

Really? I've never seen that. To be perfectly honest. I don't think I've seen a Demon in DA:O or DA2 who's actually lied about anything.

Torpor: i double-pinkie swear that if you let me possess Feynriel, I'll never cause any trouble in Kirkwall. Plus, I'll give you candy.
Hawke: OK.
(three years later)
Guard: Oh no, possessed Feynriel is causing all sorts of trouble in Kirkwall!

That's beside the fact that the demons in Feynriel's dream were masquerading as his loved ones in order to lower his defences. As were the demons who trapped your comrades in the Fade during DAO.

Demons lie all the goddamn time. About the only thing you can count on demons to do is stab you in the back whenever they have a chance.

ImperatorMortis wrote...

And what about Spirits? Why would they lie about the Makers existence? Like I said. It makes no sense.

We've only heard Justice's opinion on the subject. He says there are spirits who believe in the Maker, but he himself doesn't know if the Maker exists. He just doesn't know.

thesnake777 wrote...

Besides why would Dumat give a **** what the Maker did or thought(If the Maker even existed)? The Maker has never ever made himself known before Andraste. People back then never acknowlaged his existence. Demons, and sprits never acknowlaged his existence.

No, that's a mistake. The Maker was worshipped long before the rise of the Imperium. Andraste RETURNED people to the worship of the Maker.

Here's Word of God on the subject:

David Gaider wrote...

The cult of the Old Gods (I don't call it "the Tevinter religion" mainly because that, to me, speaks of the Imperial Chantry -- which is based in today's Tevinter Imperium) didn't contradict the existence of the Maker. Quite the opposite. The people of ancient Tevinter were aware of the existence of the Golden City and ascribed to "the Maker" (though this Creator was not called this until the appearance of the Chantry) the creation of the world. The Old Gods were not creators, though they were supposedly also not created. The Old Gods were outside of the Creator's Plan and showed up to whisper to mankind and teach them magic. According to the Chantry, they turned mankind away from their regard for a remote Creator (who ruled remotely and never interacted with his own creations) and that this is what made the Creator abandon the Golden City... though there is argument that the cult believed the Creator had abandoned it long before and that they were adrift, rescued by the Old Gods. Modern sages say that this is attempt to explain the hardships that the early human civilizations faced, and not evidence of the Maker actually being absent.

So when Andraste showed up much, much later, she was advocating a return to the "rightful" worship of the Maker... it was not a belief that came out of nowhere.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 25 novembre 2012 - 09:56 .

[WazzuMan]

I support anti-magic zealots in DA3... so I can have fun killing them!

I see the rationale behind the Templar Order and the Circles but this very system created people like Anders, Meredeth, and even Hawke (whose entire family life was affected by the Mage/Templar problem). These three people (plus some crazy-inducing idol) destroyed the very system that created them. That alone proves the system was seriously flawed.

Modifié par WazzuMan, 25 novembre 2012 - 10:18 .