247 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Everybody has problems despite the era in which they lived. I'll paste this from the other thread.

That and I think friendship should come before romance. It's hard to do that when the characters often act in such a unrealistic fashion. As I said before, every character has a problem only the player can solve. The reward for solving this is (if the player chooses) a sex scene. It's incredibly shallow and unrealistic.

Why must a every character have something wrong with them? Why can't they just act like people? Malik from Deus Ex:HR is a perfect example of a person portrayed as a person in a video game. She acts in a realistic fashion. She isn't 'damaged goods' from the start of the game asking the player to solve her daddy issues.

BioWare: every character has to be damaged goods. They call this depth. lol.

Because how dare anyone ask a friend for help with anything ever, right? Faridah never does anything like that, except, oh wait, she totally does, when she asks Adam Jensen to investigate her friend's death. Wow, what a capable and independent woman, sending someone else to do her dirty work. How is that any different from what any of the Dragon Age companions ask of the Warden, or Hawke?

So not only are you being unnecessarily condescending and rude by describing every character as 'damaged goods' and reducing their individual backstories to 'daddy issues', but you're also wrong.

Because everyone wants your help in Dragon Age. It makes helping your friends seem like just another quest that needs doing instead of actually helping them. In the case of Origins, it was a requirement just to romance them. Not sure about DA2.

My point wasn't that Malik didn't need help, my point was that her entire character arc isn't centered around it. There is no negative or positive (other than her thanks) for helping her. It's just a personal favor, not a requirement or a quest that will stay in your log forever if you don't complete it.

[Villiamus]

Because they haven't gotten to know him. he's like Alistair but without the honor or the humor.

[LolaLei]

Villiamus wrote...

Because they haven't gotten to know him. he's like Alistair but without the honor or the humor.

None of us have gotten to know him yet, so how would you or any of us know what he's like as a character? Besides, they could easily completely change his personality in DA3 like they did with Anders in DA2.

Modifié par LolaLei, 25 septembre 2012 - 12:06 .

[Jinx]

LolaLei wrote...

Villiamus wrote...

Because they haven't gotten to know him. he's like Alistair but without the honor or the humor.

None of us have gotten to know him yet, so how would you or any of us know what he's like as a character? Besides, they could easily completely change his personality in DA3 like they did with Anders in DA2.

I dont know how anyone can say he doesnt have honor....its just with the Templar....but I agree with LolaLie 

[SamaraDraven]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Because everyone wants your help in Dragon Age. It makes helping your friends seem like just another quest that needs doing instead of actually helping them. In the case of Origins, it was a requirement just to romance them. Not sure about DA2.

My point wasn't that Malik didn't need help, my point was that her entire character arc isn't centered around it. There is no negative or positive (other than her thanks) for helping her. It's just a personal favor, not a requirement or a quest that will stay in your log forever if you don't complete it.

So you want to separate the personal quests from the romances? I can appreciate that. It's just that, generally speaking, it's during those personal quests that the PC has a chance to connect to the LI they want to seduce. In real life, finding someone that offers their help to you with something because they care is how you know you have someone - friend or romantic interest - that will stick by you. Someone who wants to shag you and leave you to your own devices is what I call not a good life partner. Conversely, someone who wants your help all the time as a condition of their affections is also pretty crappy. There's a balance. But not having the personal quests matter to the romances, I think is unrealistic. The only concession I can make to your point is that the personal quests need to be written better. Or written so that the PC can offer to help if they want. I just wouldn't be surprised if not doing so limited one's ability to romance that character. To put a mushy spin on it... In real life: how can someone trust another with their heart when that person was never there and never offered to be there when they were going through something rough? It's not realistic to gain a romance or even a friendship that way.

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 25 septembre 2012 - 12:19 .

[Menagra]

Villiamus wrote...

Because they haven't gotten to know him. he's like Alistair but without the honor or the humor.

Actually we Cullen Fans probably know more about him than you. Maybe you can go back a couple pages and ready my first post explaining his back story? And OP this is a mature game, I am assume "fangirls" are actually grown women so please don't try to demean a gender by insinuating they are all either young, or that being both a fan and a girl is a bad thing.

And besides, the whole idea that "fangirls"are a naive extreme is just ridiculous and honestly sexist. Grown men act just as crazy about things they are fans of as teenage girls do. Hell my 78 year old grandfather is much more fanatic about the Detroit Tigers than anyone I ever knew was for "Twilight" the epitome of supposed "fangirls".   He's spent more of his life watching games and buying Detroit Tiger memorabilia than most of us have been alive. Also my grandfather reads Harlequin novels (I hate them) and watches me play games and he liked Alistair because he personally just likes romantic things. That doesn't make him emasculated, he's just human. Everyone has different tastes, and no, gender doesn't always determine these tastes. He grew up a farmer using a horse plow and became a mechanic and then he became a millwright in a car factory. Also he played in the minor leagues which is why he's crazy for baseball. His culture was "beer, beef and baseball" and yet he sees nothing wrong with squishy romance. I personally don't always favor squishy romance as I like strong females who swing axes and are confident in themselves. Why does everyone just bash these things assuming we're all naive little girls who want a prince charming sort of thing? Cullen is the opposite of prince charming, he's got baggage. A lot of it and it's what makes him interesting.

And that's my rant. :wizard:Good day.

Modifié par infraredman, 25 septembre 2012 - 12:42 .

[ShaggyWolf]

I'm probably the exact opposite of a fangirl, indeed, I'm a dude and I wanted to kill Cullen when he took Bethany away.

But he was the only templar that survived Uldred's imprisonment in DA:O, he questions whether or not what the templars are doing in DA:2 is right or necessary. And then he stands up to Meredith, helps Hawke kill her, then lets Hawke leave. He earned my respect as a character in that moment, and he has the potential to be a great companion in a new DA game.

I'll agree that he wasn't a huge character in either of the first 2 games, and we still don't know a lot about him, but isn't that a good thing for a future companion? Remember that we knew even less about Isabela in DA:O, yet she became a companion that we learned a lot more about in DA:2.

[KiwiQuiche]

Maclimes wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Cullen is the new Anders..

Ah, so you think that they should completely gut the character of all his redeeming qualities and fill the empty space with whining and brooding and murder?

Wasn't Cullen already that?

[Wrathion]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Cullen is the new Anders..

Ah, so you think that they should completely gut the character of all his redeeming qualities and fill the empty space with whining and brooding and murder?

Wasn't Cullen already that?

ha ha ha, the rest of my day is gonna be golden.

[SamaraDraven]

BoBear wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

 People like stuff, sometimes for reasons.

There is only one reason sir:

Couldn't resist.

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 25 septembre 2012 - 01:17 .

[VampOrchid]

David Gaider wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
The amount of gushing enthusiasm over mediocre characters seems to know no bounds here on BSN. Criticism of these characters would be far more beneficial to you and the others you work with.

The characters you and your other writers create are often just stereotypes with daddy issues. Almost all of them follow that formula.

While I'm certain that reductionism might seem like a profound insight to some, just about any character can be reduced to a stereotype (or archetype, if one prefers). There's usually a point to such analysis, rather than the analysis itself being the point.

Insofar as Cullen himself, I don't think he's a "mediocre character". He's obviously hit a chord. The only part I find interesting is that there's only so much extrapolation that can be done with what's been provided-- it's like finding a 20-page essay written about a 5-page short story.

If you feel the characters we write aren't creative enough, however, then cool. More power to ya. If that summary of yours is meant to be an invitation to that other thread, however, then I think I'll pass.

And this my friends is why I love DG and all our other devs

[VampOrchid]

Alrighty...when it's all said and done...whatever you like or don't like about this game, whoever you like or don't like, if you go in depth and find stereotypes and what not...

In the end, it's just a game.

A game with a lot of thought and effort put behind it. For a minor character to strike people, love him or hate him, means ppl behind the scenes are doing their jobs. It's good writing and art, lot of heart and long hours put into it as well.

But still it's a game. An interactive story that these ppl here share with us. Love it or hate, it doesn't matter. Not everyone shares the same opinion.

We can discuss minor issues to each other until we are all blue in the face, and probably most of us will still stick to our guns with the same opinions. n

Some ppl like him, some don't, some are indifferent. The end.

Hate it or love it. What happens is what happens.

If he ends up in the new game, deal. If he's not in game, deal.

I am a Cullen fan, but wow, some of these discussions...I'm surprised. Really.

[Palipride47]

VampOrchid wrote...

Alrighty...when it's all said and done...whatever you like or don't like about this game, whoever you like or don't like, if you go in depth and find stereotypes and what not...

In the end, it's just a game.

A game with a lot of thought and effort put behind it. For a minor character to strike people, love him or hate him, means ppl behind the scenes are doing their jobs. It's good writing and art, lot of heart and long hours put into it as well.

But still it's a game. An interactive story that these ppl here share with us. Love it or hate, it doesn't matter. Not everyone shares the same opinion.

We can discuss minor issues to each other until we are all blue in the face, and probably most of us will still stick to our guns with the same opinions. n

Some ppl like him, some don't, some are indifferent. The end.

Hate it or love it. What happens is what happens.

If he ends up in the new game, deal. If he's not in game, deal.

I am a Cullen fan, but wow, some of these discussions...I'm surprised. Really.

Voice of reason, what are you doing here?!

Yeah, the Cullen rage needs to tone down, like A LOT.

People have their characters they are obsessed with, that is why I love RPGs more than, say FPSs (most of the time). It is a product of the kind of minds that used to sit down without computers, just some dice and books and created nations, epic battles, and heroes in their heads. Or the little kids (like me) who had two dolls, some markers and some toilet paper rolls and could play with those for hours. 

I play RPGs because I am a natural storyteller and writer, and have an overactive imagination that didn't get beat out of me properly through the public school system.

That is why a minor character gets a fanbase and a backstory and character trajectory in a player's head. That is why we have lore discussions and characters that groups of people are obsessed with. That is why these games inspire machima and fanfictions. These are games for storytellers like Gaider.

A character like Cullen is way more inspiring (and relatable, because of the excellent voice acting) than Space Marine #95483. And if I PERSONALLY can't relate to Cullen, there is someone else that might tug a heartstring. 

[Sabariel]

'Cuz he'd feel a little bit sad if he had to slaughter their Surana/Amell.

[FieryDove]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Funny, I think people don't like him because they believe Sebastian's character is defined by his faith.

He isn't... In fact, on the list of defining characteristics I'd put Sebastian's dedication to the Chantry at the bottom.

I will derail it...slightly. (DA2 Seb Spoilers)

I don't know about others but its not about *faith* for me. He is a hypocrite and that's why I don't like his character.
Short version:

I must get revenge and kill all the people responsible!

Oh...maybe I shouldn't have done that, my bad.

The divine cannot march and kill innocents!

I will kill many innocents and burn kirkwall to the ground and come find you know who!

On Topic:

I think there may be a templar companion, but not Cullen in the next thing.

If Cullen is a companion, and a LI I predict much squee and recommend earplugs for at least a week after the game ships.

[LolaLei]

Palipride47 wrote...

VampOrchid wrote...

Alrighty...when it's all said and done...whatever you like or don't like about this game, whoever you like or don't like, if you go in depth and find stereotypes and what not...

In the end, it's just a game.

A game with a lot of thought and effort put behind it. For a minor character to strike people, love him or hate him, means ppl behind the scenes are doing their jobs. It's good writing and art, lot of heart and long hours put into it as well.

But still it's a game. An interactive story that these ppl here share with us. Love it or hate, it doesn't matter. Not everyone shares the same opinion.

We can discuss minor issues to each other until we are all blue in the face, and probably most of us will still stick to our guns with the same opinions. n

Some ppl like him, some don't, some are indifferent. The end.

Hate it or love it. What happens is what happens.

If he ends up in the new game, deal. If he's not in game, deal.

I am a Cullen fan, but wow, some of these discussions...I'm surprised. Really.

Voice of reason, what are you doing here?!

Yeah, the Cullen rage needs to tone down, like A LOT.

People have their characters they are obsessed with, that is why I love RPGs more than, say FPSs (most of the time). It is a product of the kind of minds that used to sit down without computers, just some dice and books and created nations, epic battles, and heroes in their heads. Or the little kids (like me) who had two dolls, some markers and some toilet paper rolls and could play with those for hours. 

I play RPGs because I am a natural storyteller and writer, and have an overactive imagination that didn't get beat out of me properly through the public school system.

That is why a minor character gets a fanbase and a backstory and character trajectory in a player's head. That is why we have lore discussions and characters that groups of people are obsessed with. That is why these games inspire machima and fanfictions. These are games for storytellers like Gaider.

A character like Cullen is way more inspiring (and relatable, because of the excellent voice acting) than Space Marine #95483. And if I PERSONALLY can't relate to Cullen, there is someone else that might tug a heartstring. 

Well said! 

[Quyk Sylvyr]

I think Cullen could make an interesting companion. . . but I'm hesitant about him as an LI. The same things that make him an interesting character also make him very flat as an LI. The two words that come to mind are shy and serious. Cullen has never displayed one iota of a sense of humor. The "good paladin LI" can be done well - but I'm not sure if be done well with someone who has as much emotional baggage as Cullen.

[Lenimph]

He was attracted to their female mage wardens.

End of story

[The Night Haunter]

Well, to add a contrasting opinion: I am a guy and I like Cullen's character too. He evolves and grows based on his experiences (liking mages b4 Ferelden Circle goes boom [play mage origin as a female], then hating mages (after Ferelden Circle) then growing more moderate as he sees how insane Meredith gets.

He lets a Mage Hawke go free after siding against Meredith. Personally it seems like he might be the highest ranking Templar that would oppose (not go along quietly at the very least) to Lord Seeker Lamberts hardline.

[mesmerizedish]

Some people think the idea of a man lusting uncomfortably after a woman he has complete control over, who is entirely powerless against him, and whom he may at any time be called upon (and willing to) murder is very romantic.

These are the same people who think Twilight is a beautiful love story, I expect.

[berelinde]

Quyk Sylvyr wrote...

I think Cullen could make an interesting companion. . . but I'm hesitant about him as an LI. The same things that make him an interesting character also make him very flat as an LI. The two words that come to mind are shy and serious. Cullen has never displayed one iota of a sense of humor. The "good paladin LI" can be done well - but I'm not sure if be done well with someone who has as much emotional baggage as Cullen.

Not all humor needs to be knee-slapping hilarity. I could totally see someone who is generally perceived as serious sporting a subtle,quirky wit under the right circumstances. Who knows? Maybe the guy has a deadpan sense of humor and he'll deliver the most ridiculous line in the history of forever and then walk away, leaving his listeners to catch on at their own pace. Not saying that Cullen would need to have that kind of a sense of humor, but it really, really does work well with the paladin types. They already know that the world expects them to be sticks in the mud, so why wouldn't they want to have fun with it?

That said, we really don't know what he's like when he isn't wearing his game face. Maybe he collects whoopi cushions and slips them onto Meredith's chair when she isn't looking. Hey, it's always the quiet ones, right?

[nightscrawl]

Wynne wrote...

Because he's like this tortured, young, hot, Catholic priest/paladin/templar type who's all like, "I want you... but my duty demands that I not bone you! But I want you... But I'm too shy to bone you anyway because the very thought makes me turn red as a beet and run away!" He's like an Alistair, except one that you can't have even once despite his presence in both games. Angsty and conflicted instead of comically adorable.

I've just gotta say... this is the best! XD

[brushyourteeth]

1.) I get as annoyed by the mindless silly girl squeeing as anyone, and I'm a Cullen fan as well as a girl.

2.) Is this topic really at 8 pages? Really?

3.) I vote this thread as a strong candidate for shut-down, as R2's Muse attempted to make a thread on this forum to discuss ways that Cullen could fit into the story of DAIII and it was shut down by a moderator.

If a thread that legitimately discusses how Cullen would contribute to DAIII isn't allowed, a thread poking fun at his fans when he hasn't even been developer confirmed to have a place in DAIII probably shouldn't be either.

.... just saying.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:35 .

[LolaLei]

brushyourteeth wrote...

1.) I get as annoyed by the mindless silly girl squeeing as anyone, and I'm a Cullen fan as well as a girl.

2.) Is this topic really at 8 pages? Really?

3.) I vote this thread as a strong candidate for shut-down, as R2's Muse attempted to make a thread on this forum to discuss ways that Cullen could fit into the story of DAIII and it was shut down by a moderator.

If a thread that legitimately discusses how Cullen would contribute to DAIII isn't allowed, a thread poking fun at his fans when he hasn't even been developer confirmed to have a place in DAIII probably shouldn't be either.

.... just saying.

Agreed.

[Josielyn]

I would love to see him as a companion or LI and explore the difficulties his growing addiction to Lyrium can create for the player, party and himself.