407 réponses à ce sujet

[D24O]

I haf kewsthiun OP. Why does it matter if someone else chose different than you?

[MerchantGOL]

D24O wrote...

I haf kewsthiun OP. Why does it matter if someone else chose different than you?

Because most  pro-Destroyers think the only oppinon that matters is theres, if you dont agree your  indoctrinated.

[Samtheman63]

ATiBotka wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

"Without us to stop it synthetics will destroy all organics"
right ok catalyst


"Synthesis is inevitable"
errr.... you just said the opposite


"The created will always rebel against their creators"
The reapers attacked you?  the geth attacked the quarians?
No, they didn't


Hes talking ****

He thinks it's true.

How can there ever be a risk of synthetics wiping out all organics if synthesis is inevitable?

Hes either lying or just making it up as he goes along, which i doubt an AI would do

"Now that we know it is possible, it's inevitable we will reach synthesis."

Right, so the whole reaper cycle thing is pointless, why not stop?

[MerchantGOL]

Samtheman63 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

"Without us to stop it synthetics will destroy all organics"
right ok catalyst


"Synthesis is inevitable"
errr.... you just said the opposite


"The created will always rebel against their creators"
The reapers attacked you?  the geth attacked the quarians?
No, they didn't


Hes talking ****

He thinks it's true.

How can there ever be a risk of synthetics wiping out all organics if synthesis is inevitable?

Hes either lying or just making it up as he goes along, which i doubt an AI would do

"Now that we know it is possible, it's inevitable we will reach synthesis."

Right, so the whole reaper cycle thing is pointless, why not stop?

Thats why he  lets you pick what happens next. If you refuse he jusst waits for some one with more brians to come along an d pick the next step

[ATiBotka]

Samtheman63 wrote...

Right, so the whole reaper cycle thing is pointless, why not stop?

He can't find a better "solution". He can't use the Crucible, so he present you the choices.

[Samtheman63]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

"Without us to stop it synthetics will destroy all organics"
right ok catalyst


"Synthesis is inevitable"
errr.... you just said the opposite


"The created will always rebel against their creators"
The reapers attacked you?  the geth attacked the quarians?
No, they didn't


Hes talking ****

He thinks it's true.

How can there ever be a risk of synthetics wiping out all organics if synthesis is inevitable?

Hes either lying or just making it up as he goes along, which i doubt an AI would do

"Now that we know it is possible, it's inevitable we will reach synthesis."

Right, so the whole reaper cycle thing is pointless, why not stop?

Thats why he  lets you pick what happens next. If you refuse he jusst waits for some one with more brians to come along an d pick the next step

It's inevitabe, so it doesnt which I pick, so theres no need for the cycle

Or hes talking ****..

[MerchantGOL]

Samtheman63 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

"Without us to stop it synthetics will destroy all organics"
right ok catalyst


"Synthesis is inevitable"
errr.... you just said the opposite


"The created will always rebel against their creators"
The reapers attacked you?  the geth attacked the quarians?
No, they didn't


Hes talking ****

He thinks it's true.

How can there ever be a risk of synthetics wiping out all organics if synthesis is inevitable?

Hes either lying or just making it up as he goes along, which i doubt an AI would do

"Now that we know it is possible, it's inevitable we will reach synthesis."

Right, so the whole reaper cycle thing is pointless, why not stop?

Thats why he  lets you pick what happens next. If you refuse he jusst waits for some one with more brians to come along an d pick the next step

It's inevitabe, so it doesnt which I pick, so theres no need for the cycle

Or hes talking ****..

If its  inevitble then it will happen with the cycle, Till it dose happen the cycle would be needed

[Samtheman63]

thats not what inevitable means

[MerchantGOL]

Samtheman63 wrote...

thats not what inevitable means

Yes it dose, If its inevitble it will happen with or with out the cycle, But befor you get to that finish line the cycle is needed

[Samtheman63]

Iin·ev·i·ta·ble/inˈevitəbəl/
Adjective:
Certain to happen; unavoidable: "war was inevitable".
Noun:
A situation that is unavoidable.


So it should happen regardless of the cycle, but its needed? haha

or the enemy was lying to you when you practically had a gun pointing to their face...

[Purge the heathens]

Samtheman63 wrote...

"Without us to stop it synthetics will destroy all organics"
right ok catalyst


"Synthesis is inevitable"
errr.... you just said the opposite

Watch me grasp at straws, with a side-helping of Sovereign's "We have no beginning, we have no end."

Begin! Shepard chooses Destroy.

S: "You know, those are interesting alternatives and all, but I'd rather blow up all of you."

C: "Aw, shucks. Well, here's to hoping my successor gets luckier."

S: "What do you mean, 'successor'?"

*fast forward into the distant future*

Moloch 1: "Did you notice how everyone's getting killed by their own synthetics?"

Moloch 2: "I did! Let's build an AI to solve the problem."

M 1: "What do we call it?"

M 2: "How about... The Generator?"

G: "Sorry guys, but you're part of the problem. Meet the Harvesters."

*fast forward again*

Pastoralist: "I choose Control/Synthesis."

G: "I've got this sudden sense of déjà vu."


Personally, I love Synthesis because, hey, transhumanism! Not that don't have any gripes with it. For one, the implication that EDI can't be truly alive without being partly organic.

[Bill Casey]

Samtheman63 wrote...

It's inevitabe, so it doesnt which I pick, so theres no need for the cycle

Or hes talking ****..

[Samtheman63]

Im going to play now, syntesis is bad

No one in the right mind would be able to live along side the reapers after the chaos they have caused, no one. Unless you fundamentally change the way we think as human beings of course.

its immorale

[Argolas]

[quote]MerchantGOL wrote...
EDI: "My code would be rewritten. I would become loyal to the reapers. I would rather become nonfunctional than to help them."
Sounds like Destroy, quite literally.[/quote]You are not hellping them. LEgion sacraficed himself to giv ehis people a futture, he wouldnt throw it away with a better optioon availible.


I think this "rewritten" happens in Synthesis. You note how happy EDI is about feeling alive in that ending? Well, too bad for Synthesis supporters, but that is old news. 

Of course she's happy, the war is over, her and jeff are now mor compatible, but she snot jsut  happyy she is also mourning


"But only now do I feel alive. That is your influence, Shepard."
EDI had a long journey. She adapted to the presence of organics. When we start ME2, she is a machine, at the end of ME3 she is a person, willing to sacrifice her life for those she cares for. She even is capable of feeling love. THIS is what Synthesis should be like. This is not a forced and dangerous change in the DNA, this is a true ascension.
Yes, that´s right. EDI is my major argument against Synthesis.


she  would give her life, like a soldier, i don't belive for a second she would scrafice  herself and every oen like her for the  quick easy solution. Same with Wrex, Would he giv ehis life for the cause? yes Would he Give every Krogan Lfie For the cause if there was a better opption? Hell no.



[/quote]

I agree on one of your points: Legion would propably not pick Destroy. The Geth business troubeled me indeed, actually. In ME2, Legion is quite clear what makes the difference between a Geth and a Heretic: The Heretics accept Reaper tech to achieve a future, the Geth believe that this makes them "blind for alternatives" and puts them at least indirectly under reaper control. The Geth want to build their own future, that means a giant server where they can all be together. Instead, he accepts Reaper codes that lets the Geth all life apart from each other. I suspect that in the moment the Geth ally with the reapers in order to defend themselves against the Quarian invasion, they all become heretics without realizing.Note that this does not mean they can´t fight the reapers, like Illusive Man does fight them despite he is indoctrinated. They just gave up their own future and accept Reaper tech.

About EDI: Her quotes make a few things clear.
-She is not ready to ally with the reapers (Synthesis=Alliance with the reapers)
-She is ready to die in order to protect organics in general and especially Joker
-She does not want to become like the reapers ("Reapers are repulsive. They are devoted to nothing but self-preservation. I am different.")
I think the red part should be remembered espacially well, because many fail to see that Synthesis means eternal self-preservation for the reapers who are now unstoppable, and this seems to be their final goal... unless the Leviathans assume control which is quite easy for them after Synthesis.
As for EDI feeling alive and the "compatibility" of EDI and Joker: There is no big change at all. EDI felt alive before. They loved each other before. They are still different races, so they propably can´t have children before or after, but that does not stop a romance. Proof: Shepard can only have children with Liara and Ashley (maleshep) or Liara and Kaiden (femshep).

About your Wrex example: He is a warrior. He wants the reapers to be killed, maybe more badly than anyone else. I do not think he would sacrifice his people though. If he had the three choices (with Destroy killing Krogan) I believe he would choose to fight, that means Refusal. No matter what happens, the Krogan fight and survive, I suppose he would think along these lines.

[ATiBotka]

Samtheman63 wrote...

Im going to play now, syntesis is bad

No one in the right mind would be able to live along side the reapers after the chaos they have caused, no one. Unless you fundamentally change the way we think as human beings of course.
 

What about Control? The people live with the Reapers.

Modifié par ATiBotka, 26 septembre 2012 - 08:02 .

[Argolas]

ATiBotka wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

Im going to play now, syntesis is bad

No one in the right mind would be able to live along side the reapers after the chaos they have caused, no one. Unless you fundamentally change the way we think as human beings of course.
 

What about Control? The people still live with the Reapers.

They have no choice. Those reapers stopped killing them and they have other things to do. Rebuild, mourn...

Still, the reapers control the galaxy. Everyone is still dependant on reaper tech in Control. And we have a galactic overlord out there, one being who is more powerful than the whole rest of the known galaxy combined.
Oh, and by the way, Control means mindslaving the reapers. Even the worst enemy diserves to be killed rather than become mindless tools. Especially those harvested civilizations diserve to rest in peace.

The reapers were a messed up idea from a messed up AI created by even more messed up ****-aliens. It claimed the lives and souls of countless civilizations. There must be put an end to this, once and for all, and Shepard gets that unique chance to make things right, a chance that never has been there before and never will again.

Edit: I would not have thought that one was censored too. I was comparing the Leviathans to a real group of people who thought and think that their race is superior and thus they have the right to rule every "minor" race.

Modifié par Argolas, 26 septembre 2012 - 08:18 .

[zioninzion]

JeffZero wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

You are closed minded sir, you have an objective destroy the ****ing reapers.

To stop the ****ing reapers.

"Dead reapers are how we win this"
"We destroy them, or they destroy us"

thats 2 quotes, of about 20

And not all players are going to automatically agree with Anderson's and Hackett's limited firsthand experience after spending three games arriving at their own conclusions. Many will, and that's fine. But Anderson'a and Hackett's lines aren't going to mean everything to everyone.

Then there are the Shepard pro-Destroy quotes, and those are harder to deny, but then, so are the apparently great outcomes from Control and Synthesis. And the (rather aggravating) "there has to be another way..." Shepard auto-quote.

Thats assuming the outcomes of synthesis and control are the real outcomes and not some space brat bs

[ElSuperGecko]

D24O wrote...
I haf kewsthiun OP. Why does it matter if someone else chose different than you?

It doesn't.  Doesn't matter to me at all.  I've just stated the facts of the final decision, as they stand.  I'm sorry if that messes with your own, personal headcannon regarding the choice Shepard has to make, but that's the truth.

ATiBotka wrote...
"Now that we know it is possible, it's inevitable we will reach synthesis."

Synthesis is inevitable"? How so? Doesn't the Catalyst tell us that a technological singularity is inevitable? That left unchecked, synthetic life will eventually end up wiping out all organic life? Isn't that why the Catalyst AI was created in the first place? To prevent such an occurance?

So if a technological singularity is inevitable, how can Synthesis be inevitable? It's a flat out contradiction: it can't be both, it's one of the other.

If Synthesis is inevitable, then there is no distinguishing between organic and synthetic life. So a technological singularity cannot possibly occur.

But if a technological singularity is inevitable, then Synthesis cannot occur as there will be no organic life left for synthetics to synthesize with.

So either the Catalyst's proposed solution can never happen on it's own, or the threat of a technological singularity doesn't exist in the first place.

Or, (more likely given the warped reasoning the Catalyst AI is following), NEITHER option will ever occur of it's own devices.

And whichever point of view you take, it's best not to follow the advice and suggestions of a homicidal, genocidal machine that has no experience or understanding of organic life.  Especially when it's previous "perfect solution" started this entire mess in the first place.

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 26 septembre 2012 - 08:34 .

[zioninzion]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

D24O wrote...
I haf kewsthiun OP. Why does it matter if someone else chose different than you?

It doesn't.  Doesn't matter to me at all.  I've just stated the facts of the final decision, as they stand.  I'm sorry if that messes with your own, personal headcannon regarding the choice Shepard has to make, but that's the truth.

ATiBotka wrote...
"Now that we know it is possible, it's inevitable we will reach synthesis."

Synthesis is inevitable"? How so? Doesn't the Catalyst tell us that a technological singularity is inevitable? That left unchecked, synthetic life will eventually end up wiping out all organic life? Isn't that why the Catalyst AI was created in the first place? To prevent such an occurance?

So if a technological singularity is inevitable, how can Synthesis be inevitable? It's a flat out contradiction: it can't be both, it's one of the other.

If Synthesis is inevitable, then there is no distinguishing between organic and synthetic life. So a technological singularity cannot possibly occur.

But if a technological singularity is inevitable, then Synthesis cannot occur as there will be no organic life left for synthetics to synthesize with.

So either the Catalyst's proposed solution can never happen on it's own, or the threat of a technological singularity doesn't exist in the first place.

Or, (more likely given the warped reasoning the Catalyst AI is following), NEITHER option will ever occur of it's own devices.

And whichever point of view you take, it's best not to follow the advice and suggestions of a homicidal, genocidal machine that has no experience or understanding of organic life.  Especially when it's previous "perfect solution" started this entire mess in the first place.

no dude..even though the catalyst and the reapers spent the whole series trying to indoctrinate important people who are central to defeating them, you have to take what the star-brat says at facevalue...when he emphasizes the only options that will save the reapers (his tool of destruction for the last billion years) will bring everyone peace, you listen:wizard:

[Argolas]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

D24O wrote...
I haf kewsthiun OP. Why does it matter if someone else chose different than you?

It doesn't.  Doesn't matter to me at all.  I've just stated the facts of the final decision, as they stand.  I'm sorry if that messes with your own, personal headcannon regarding the choice Shepard has to make, but that's the truth.

ATiBotka wrote...
"Now that we know it is possible, it's inevitable we will reach synthesis."

Synthesis is inevitable"? How so? Doesn't the Catalyst tell us that a technological singularity is inevitable? That left unchecked, synthetic life will eventually end up wiping out all organic life? Isn't that why the Catalyst AI was created in the first place? To prevent such an occurance?

So if a technological singularity is inevitable, how can Synthesis be inevitable? It's a flat out contradiction: it can't be both, it's one of the other.

If Synthesis is inevitable, then there is no distinguishing between organic and synthetic life. So a technological singularity cannot possibly occur.

But if a technological singularity is inevitable, then Synthesis cannot occur as there will be no organic life left for synthetics to synthesize with.

So either the Catalyst's proposed solution can never happen on it's own, or the threat of a technological singularity doesn't exist in the first place.

Or, (more likely given the warped reasoning the Catalyst AI is following), NEITHER option will ever occur of it's own devices.

And whichever point of view you take, it's best not to follow the advice and suggestions of a homicidal, genocidal machine that has no experience or understanding of organic life.  Especially when it's previous "perfect solution" started this entire mess in the first place.

Agreed, although I believe natural Synthesis MIGHT occur.

As I said, the whole reapers business has been messed up to begin with and just has to be laid to rest.

[Bill Casey]

It was also inevitable we would be harvested...
Reapers represent inevitability, while Shepard represents choices mattering...

[Ace of Dawn]

What assurances do we have that destroy would destroy the Reapers?

[Argolas]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

What assurances do we have that destroy would destroy the Reapers?

Assurance? Non. But the (non-indoctrinated) scientists of multiple circles believed that it could destroy the reapers, that is the reason why many cycles tried to build it, worked on it, improved it- and to me, that is far better than the word of reaper kid. It is the only hope and thus we must believe. And in the end, we are right, the reapers ARE destroyed in the Destroy ending.

[ElSuperGecko]

Bill Casey wrote...
It was also inevitable we would be harvested...
Reapers represent inevitability, while Shepard represents choices mattering...

So.... let me get this strraight.

It's inevitable that all advanced organic races will be harvested.  But.....
It's also inevitable that a technolgical singularity will completely wipe out ALL organic life.  But...
It's also inevitable that organic and synthetic life will be merged into a new framework via "Synthesis".

That's a whole lot of inevitability.

Ace of Dawn wrote...
What assurances do we have that destroy would destroy the Reapers?

None.  But that' was the reason the Crucible was designed in the first place.  It was built as a weapon.  The Alliance and every alien race you recruited threw their respources into it because they believed it was a weapon capable of stopping the Reapers once and for all.

I'd rather go with their research, guesswork and assumptions than a suggestion made by the leader of our enemy.

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 26 septembre 2012 - 09:28 .

[D24O]

I'm strapped with that 9 and I look like Sam Casell.