407 réponses à ce sujet

[Ace of Dawn]

From what I remember, it was built as a device. Not specifically a weapon. No one had any real idea how it could function, or if it truly would. Only that it was built. And in the end, all options "defeat" the Reapers. With x definition of defeat.

[Enhanced]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...
It was also inevitable we would be harvested...
Reapers represent inevitability, while Shepard represents choices mattering...

So.... let me get this strraight.

It's inevitable that all advanced organic races will be harvested.  But.....
It's also inevitable that a technolgical singularity will completely wipe out ALL organic life.  But...
It's also inevitable that organic and synthetic life will be merged into a new framework via "Synthesis".

That's a whole lot of inevitability.

Synthesis is only inevitable if Shepard chooses it. He says that because Synthesis wouldn't work in the past, but it will now.

Modifié par Enhanced, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:05 .

[Bill Casey]

Enhanced wrote...

Synthesis is only inevitable if Shepard chooses it.

Not according to the Catalyst...
It thinks because synthesis is possible, it is inevitable...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:51 .

[dreman9999]

1. Destroy is an answer that makes sure the problem ends...But on a short term. What happened with the reaper can happen again over time.

2. Controls pro is that is it works. As much time people have failed to control the reapers, Shepard succeeds. The con is that Shepard is no longer human. Most people thing Shepard as an Ai may lose control. But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong. It had no morality and was shackled to a state of thought. The Shepard AI is not. It's equally as good as a choice as destroy...The problems with it are based on Morals.


3. Synthesis is worse then you think. Your letting the catalyst control everything in a new way. It's object was to turn everything to reaper so it can control them.Now it does not need to turn them to reapers.

Modifié par dreman9999, 26 septembre 2012 - 11:42 .

[dreman9999]

Enhanced wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...
It was also inevitable we would be harvested...
Reapers represent inevitability, while Shepard represents choices mattering...

So.... let me get this strraight.

It's inevitable that all advanced organic races will be harvested.  But.....
It's also inevitable that a technolgical singularity will completely wipe out ALL organic life.  But...
It's also inevitable that organic and synthetic life will be merged into a new framework via "Synthesis".

That's a whole lot of inevitability.

Synthesis is only inevitable if Shepard chooses it. He says that because Synthesis wouldn't work in the past, but it will now.

No, it basedon the races themselves. Shepard has no control what the race now will do in the furture. 100 years from ME3, people may look at the concept of synthesis as common.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Destroy is an answer that makes sure the problem ends...But on a short term. What happened with the reaper can happen again over time.

2. Controls pro is that is it works. As much time people have failed to control the reapers, Shepard succeeds. The con is that Shepard is no longer human. Most people thing Shepard as an Ai may lose control. But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong. It had no morality and was shackled to a state of thought. The Shepard AI is not. It's equally as good as a choice as destroy...The problems with it are based on Morals.


3. Synthesis is worse then you think. Your letting the catalyst control everything in a new way. It object was to turn everything to reaper so it can control them.Now it does not need to turn them to reapers.

Catalyst's objective was to preserve organic and synthetic life by finding a way to achieve peace. It's first solution were the Repers, but now it has a way to achieve balance without bloodshed.

[Bill Casey]

dreman9999 wrote...

But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong.

Here's reasons from the thematic material...

EDI: "Moral decisions shouldn't be made in a vaccuum."

Mordin: "Focused on big picture. Big picture made of little pictures. Too many variables."

Liara: "He certainly fooled himself into thinking this was for the best. When you work in secret, it's tempting to believe you have all the answers."

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 septembre 2012 - 10:59 .

[ElSuperGecko]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Destroy is an answer that makes sure the problem ends...But on a short term. What happened with the reaper can happen again over time.

This is only true if you buy into the Catalyst's logic, and take it's word as absolute.  As it showed when it all-but exterminated it's own creators and began the cycle of extinction, it has no concept of organic emotion or thought, so it doesn't take that into the equation.

Organics are more than capable of learning from their mistake, and from the mistakes of others.  Destroy ends the Reaper threat forever, and gives organic life the opportunity and the freedom to creat their own destiny, to decide their own fate.  Something which, thanks to the Leviathan and the Catalyst, they haven't had the chance to do for billions of years.

2. Controls pro is that is it works. As much time people have failed to control the reapers, Shepard succeeds. The con is that Shepard is no longer human. Most people thing Shepard as an Ai may lose control. But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong. It had no morality and was shackled to a state of thought. The Shepard AI is not. It's equally as good as a choice as destroy...The problems with it are based on Morals.

Now Control... Control is a solution that may only work in the short term.  As you said, Shepard replaces the Catalyst as the controller of the Reapers, but he is alone, eternally alone, seperated from his own kind by an immeasurable gulf, with only the voices of the Reapers for company.  Having a mortal being - with mortal feelings, emotions and understanding - in this position is a recipe for insanity, and disaster.

Plus of course, the Reapers survive.  And the ShepAI can throw them at anything he deems to be a threat.  SO long as the Reapers survive, the possibility that the cycle of extinction could return is there.

3. Synthesis is worse then you think. Your letting the catalyst control everything in a new way. It object was to turn everything to reaper so it can control them.Now it does not need to turn them to reapers.

I can't argue with you on that point.  Synthesis simply has so many fundamental problems with it that it should be unthinkable for Shepard to even contemplate that choice.  Should be.

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

It was also inevitable we would be harvested...
Reapers represent inevitability, while Shepard represents choices mattering...

Havesting is just forced progration in the way of a narrow view of a being.

Shepard represents the fact that being with the narrow view  doesn't see everything.


As for synthesis,it just implatation. The MEU is already doing that. The thing you missing is even though synthesis is inevitable, we don't have to do it the catalyst way. The catalyst is wrong because it is forcing us to do synthesis in only one way.

The case is we can and should do it any way we want to and not force it on others. The issue is that progression should not be forced like the catalyst is doing.

[dreman9999]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Destroy is an answer that makes sure the problem ends...But on a short term. What happened with the reaper can happen again over time.

This is only true if you buy into the Catalyst's logic, and take it's word as absolute.  As it showed when it all-but exterminated it's own creators and began the cycle of extinction, it has no concept of organic emotion or thought, so it doesn't take that into the equation.

Organics are more than capable of learning from their mistake, and from the mistakes of others.  Destroy ends the Reaper threat forever, and gives organic life the opportunity and the freedom to creat their own destiny, to decide their own fate.  Something which, thanks to the Leviathan and the Catalyst, they haven't had the chance to do for billions of years.

2. Controls pro is that is it works. As much time people have failed to control the reapers, Shepard succeeds. The con is that Shepard is no longer human. Most people thing Shepard as an Ai may lose control. But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong. It had no morality and was shackled to a state of thought. The Shepard AI is not. It's equally as good as a choice as destroy...The problems with it are based on Morals.

Now Control... Control is a solution that may only work in the short term.  As you said, Shepard replaces the Catalyst as the controller of the Reapers, but he is alone, eternally alone, seperated from his own kind by an immeasurable gulf, with only the voices of the Reapers for company.  Having a mortal being - with mortal feelings, emotions and understanding - in this position is a recipe for insanity, and disaster.

Plus of course, the Reapers survive.  And the ShepAI can throw them at anything he deems to be a threat.  SO long as the Reapers survive, the possibility that the cycle of extinction could return is there.

3. Synthesis is worse then you think. Your letting the catalyst control everything in a new way. It object was to turn everything to reaper so it can control them.Now it does not need to turn them to reapers.

I can't argue with you on that point.  Synthesis simply has so many fundamental problems with it that it should be unthinkable for Shepard to even contemplate that choice.  Should be.

1. It has nothing to do withthe catalyst comments. Itthe fact that we have a massive ammount of conflict with organic and synthetic life inthe series. Heck, we almost had a synthetics wipe us out in overlord.
The conflict exsist. What may solve it now may not solve it or stopthe conflict later.

2.Here's the problem That mortal being is no longer a mortal.It has the feelings of an organic, but also of a machine. It's not going to go mad because of that. The Shepard AI can see both aspect of being an organic and a machine.
And being that the Shep AI caontrols the reaper, there isnohing stoppin gthe Shep Ai form having them reaper decomotion. The AI can easy over time  lessen the power it has over time and then finally let organics and synthetics rule themselves, decomissioning itself and the reapers.

3. It's not synthesis that's the problem...It's the catalyst version of synthesis.  Synthesis is just implantation. We can do it on our terms in any way we want with out the catalyst and wth out forcing it on everyone. The catalyst version of synthesis is wrong because it 's forced on everyone and the catalyst is left in control.

[DoomsdayDevice]

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong.

Here's reasons from the thematic material...

EDI: "Moral decisions shouldn't be made in a vaccuum."

Mordin: "Focused on big picture. Big picture made of little pictures. Too many variables."

Liara: "He certainly fooled himself into thinking this was for the best. When you work in secret, it's tempting to believe you have all the answers."

Then you not getting him.The catalyst is incapable of any thought or concept of moral because it is a shackled  AI.  It's only conserd with doing it's programing no matter how much damage it does doing it.

You say it should consider the morality of the issue but it can't. It's a machine doing what it's programed to do.

Think Hal from space odyssey.

Modifié par dreman9999, 26 septembre 2012 - 11:42 .

[dreman9999]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Destroy is an answer that makes sure the problem ends...But on a short term. What happened with the reaper can happen again over time.

2. Controls pro is that is it works. As much time people have failed to control the reapers, Shepard succeeds. The con is that Shepard is no longer human. Most people thing Shepard as an Ai may lose control. But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong. It had no morality and was shackled to a state of thought. The Shepard AI is not. It's equally as good as a choice as destroy...The problems with it are based on Morals.


3. Synthesis is worse then you think. Your letting the catalyst control everything in a new way. It object was to turn everything to reaper so it can control them.Now it does not need to turn them to reapers.

Catalyst's objective was to preserve organic and synthetic life by finding a way to achieve peace. It's first solution were the Repers, but now it has a way to achieve balance without bloodshed.

But that does not change the fact that this is a new way is any less wrong. The only reason his first solution has blood shead is because he has to physically force it on organics. The end results is him completly controling organics and synthetics.
Synthesis may not have blood shead but the end results still has 
him completly controling organics and synthetics. 
It's still just as bad a before. 

Modifié par dreman9999, 26 septembre 2012 - 11:49 .

[ElSuperGecko]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. It has nothing to do withthe catalyst comments. Itthe fact that we have a massive ammount of conflict with organic and synthetic life inthe series. Heck, we almost had a synthetics wipe us out in overlord.
The conflict exsist. What may solve it now may not solve it or stopthe conflict later.

We've had conflict with Synthetics, yes - because (as we found out in Mass Effect 2) they were influenced by the Reapers (the "Old Machines").  We've also managed to reconcile those conflicts, and even recruit Synthetics to our cause.

Overlord can be looked at as a case for the Catalyst#s arguments; it can also be looked at as another example of an individual failing to Control synthetics.  It's a matter of perspective.

And your argument doesn't address the issue of free will, self determination and organic's ability to learn from the mistakes of the past - all of which are removed whn a single being has absolute Control.

2.Here's the problem That mortal being is no longer a mortal.It has the feelings of an organic, but also of a machine. It's not going to go mad because of that. The Shepard AI can see both aspect of being an organic and a machine. And being that the Shep AI caontrols the reaper, there isnohing stoppin gthe Shep Ai form having them reaper decomotion. The AI can easy over time  lessen the power it has over time and then finally let organics and synthetics rule themselves, decomissioning itself and the reapers.

I couldn't disagree more.  This is why solitary confinement is considered a cruel form of punishment.  In Control, Shepard is entirely alone.  Shepard becomes a single voice, mingled with the conciousness of the Catalyst and the Reapers themselves, and will only become increasingly distant from the world of organic beings over time.

If you want a comparable figure - look at the character of Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen.  The power and near immortality ended up stripping his humanity away, leaving him distant, unable to comphrend human existence.  Shepard's eventual fate would be similar - but influenced by the Reapers own collective conciousness.

And if you listen to the EC epilogues, Shepard will never relinquish control over the Reapers.  It's not an option.  The galaxy will forever have the very real and present threat of an armada of space cuttlefish looming over their heads.

3. It's not synthesis that's the problem...It's the catalyst version of synthesis.  Synthesis is just implantation. We can do it on our terms in any way we want with out the catalyst and wth out forcing it on everyone. The catalyst version of synthesis is wrong because it 's forced on everyone and the catalyst is left in control.

Synthesis is not "just" implantation.  Implantation is "just" implantation.  Synthesis is the fusion of all synthetic and organic life at a base level.  And the Catalyst's version of Synthesis is the only one we're presented with in game.  It's implications are even more horrific than it's original solution of the Reaper Harvesting.

[dreman9999]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. It has nothing to do withthe catalyst comments. Itthe fact that we have a massive ammount of conflict with organic and synthetic life inthe series. Heck, we almost had a synthetics wipe us out in overlord.
The conflict exsist. What may solve it now may not solve it or stopthe conflict later.

We've had conflict with Synthetics, yes - because (as we found out in Mass Effect 2) they were influenced by the Reapers (the "Old Machines").  We've also managed to reconcile those conflicts, and even recruit Synthetics to our cause.

Overlord can be looked at as a case for the Catalyst#s arguments; it can also be looked at as another example of an individual failing to Control synthetics.  It's a matter of perspective.

And your argument doesn't address the issue of free will, self determination and organic's ability to learn from the mistakes of the past - all of which are removed whn a single being has absolute Control.

2.Here's the problem That mortal being is no longer a mortal.It has the feelings of an organic, but also of a machine. It's not going to go mad because of that. The Shepard AI can see both aspect of being an organic and a machine. And being that the Shep AI caontrols the reaper, there isnohing stoppin gthe Shep Ai form having them reaper decomotion. The AI can easy over time  lessen the power it has over time and then finally let organics and synthetics rule themselves, decomissioning itself and the reapers.

I couldn't disagree more.  This is why solitary confinement is considered a cruel form of punishment.  In Control, Shepard is entirely alone.  Shepard becomes a single voice, mingled with the conciousness of the Catalyst and the Reapers themselves, and will only become increasingly distant from the world of organic beings over time.

If you want a comparable figure - look at the character of Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen.  The power and near immortality ended up stripping his humanity away, leaving him distant, unable to comphrend human existence.  Shepard's eventual fate would be similar - but influenced by the Reapers own collective conciousness.

And if you listen to the EC epilogues, Shepard will never relinquish control over the Reapers.  It's not an option.  The galaxy will forever have the very real and present threat of an armada of space cuttlefish looming over their heads.

3. It's not synthesis that's the problem...It's the catalyst version of synthesis.  Synthesis is just implantation. We can do it on our terms in any way we want with out the catalyst and wth out forcing it on everyone. The catalyst version of synthesis is wrong because it 's forced on everyone and the catalyst is left in control.

Synthesis is not "just" implantation.  Implantation is "just" implantation.  Synthesis is the fusion of all synthetic and organic life at a base level.  And the Catalyst's version of Synthesis is the only one we're presented with in game.  It's implications are even more horrific than it's original solution of the Reaper Harvesting.

1. "
And your argument doesn't address the issue of free will, self determination and organic's ability to learn from the mistakes of the past - all of which are removed whn a single being has absolute Control. "

Just because one set of organics learn this lesson or understand this for a time does not mean all organics will live by these lessons in the furture. In the issue of us learning about the lesson, we can only speak for the races  here now and the people there now. But what about 100 years or athousands years later, or new races.
Idealiologies of groups can change rapidly.

That what makes destroy a temparary solution.

2.That's what makes it a sacrific. Shepard is giving everything he/she cared for to serve and protect them. In the end of it, it does not mean Shepard can't find away into an orgainc body. 
Go to the mass effect wiki and look up virtual alians.
And the AI will not go distant, it's programing is based on undrstanding organics and making sure they have a voice. That does not mean getting distant.
Dr. Manhattan did not go on a rampage with that power...In fact he went on to make more life int he universe.

Added, nothing in the 
EC epilogues shows that Shepard will not let go of the reapers. That is an option.

3.Having synthetic part place into an organic in any way is implantation. The catalyst version is more then that because he adds more changes than that based on the implants.

And for synthesis I'm not taking about what is presented now. The catalyst states it inetible, why forc it now when it's going to happen on it's own?
The difference is that his version happens faster then synthesis done over time. That my point. Other way of doing synthesis may not be offered now, but it can be done later on our terms. It does not need to beforced now. Both destroy and control can lead to a slower applied synthesis on our terms in the furture, at the hand of our decendents. We don't need to pick the catalyst version of synthesis to have it happen. We only need to pick it if we want it to happen now. It can be applied later based on our, aka decendents, terms.

[Bill Casey]

dreman9999 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong.

Here's reasons from the thematic material...

EDI: "Moral decisions shouldn't be made in a vaccuum."

Mordin: "Focused on big picture. Big picture made of little pictures. Too many variables."

Liara: "He certainly fooled himself into thinking this was for the best. When you work in secret, it's tempting to believe you have all the answers."

Then you not getting him.The catalyst is incapable of any thought or concept of moral because it is a shackled  AI.  It's only conserd with doing it's programing no matter how much damage it does doing it.

You say it should consider the morality of the issue but it can't. It's a machine doing what it's programed to do.

Think Hal from space odyssey.

Incorrect...
It is intentionally subverting its own purpose...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 27 septembre 2012 - 12:45 .

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong.

Here's reasons from the thematic material...

EDI: "Moral decisions shouldn't be made in a vaccuum."

Mordin: "Focused on big picture. Big picture made of little pictures. Too many variables."

Liara: "He certainly fooled himself into thinking this was for the best. When you work in secret, it's tempting to believe you have all the answers."

Then you not getting him.The catalyst is incapable of any thought or concept of moral because it is a shackled  AI.  It's only conserd with doing it's programing no matter how much damage it does doing it.

You say it should consider the morality of the issue but it can't. It's a machine doing what it's programed to do.

Think Hal from space odyssey.

Incorrect...
It is intentionally subverting its own purpose...

Nope. It was doing what it was programed to do. Even it's creators state this.



Leviathan: The intelligence was envisioned as another tool
Shepard:And now we all pay the price of you mistake
Leviathan: There was no mistake. It still serves it's perpose

And on it's programing aka perpose...



Leviathan:  To counter this problem we creater an intelligence with the mandate to perserve life at any cost.

That basicly means  they made a shackled  AI to solve a problem with no limit ever given to how. 

That basicly means  they made a shackled  AI to solve a problem with no limit ever given to how. 


How it does this the problem.
It did not make the problem, he was made to solve it. He would not be made if they were no problem with organics and synthetics before.

True, he make it worse but he can't see it due to his programing.

It's goal is to control everyting because to perserve them becauseit was programed to perserve life at any cost. It not consere with what it wants, just that he does his job.

Modifié par dreman9999, 27 septembre 2012 - 01:19 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

dreman9999 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Destroy is an answer that makes sure the problem ends...But on a short term. What happened with the reaper can happen again over time.

2. Controls pro is that is it works. As much time people have failed to control the reapers, Shepard succeeds. The con is that Shepard is no longer human. Most people thing Shepard as an Ai may lose control. But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong. It had no morality and was shackled to a state of thought. The Shepard AI is not. It's equally as good as a choice as destroy...The problems with it are based on Morals.


3. Synthesis is worse then you think. Your letting the catalyst control everything in a new way. It object was to turn everything to reaper so it can control them.Now it does not need to turn them to reapers.

Catalyst's objective was to preserve organic and synthetic life by finding a way to achieve peace. It's first solution were the Repers, but now it has a way to achieve balance without bloodshed.

But that does not change the fact that this is a new way is any less wrong. The only reason his first solution has blood shead is because he has to physically force it on organics. The end results is him completly controling organics and synthetics.
Synthesis may not have blood shead but the end results still has 
him completly controling organics and synthetics. 
It's still just as bad a before. 

 Where does it say Catalyst is controlling everyone? From what I've seen, everyone is still who they were before the Synthesis.

[Allison_Lightning]

How long before the Shepard-Reaper in Control loses their humanity, their perspective? A thousand years, ten thousand years, millions?
Without friends, family, teammates- a world, just an endless eternity seeing for every Geth type species good type created, a psychotic, organic killing AI species. The cycle would eventually resume, leaving a very extreme AI version of Shepard as the master Reaper behind.

[Dharvy]

Come on people. So many give all kinds of alternate scenarios for Control and Synthesis to fail, when destroy have nearly the easiest chance of failing. Sure the Reapers are dead, but are they not machines? Did they all blow up or just basically go dormant, shut down? A whole bunch of the Galaxy's greatest machines are laying dormant all over the Galaxy, ripe for anyone with the ability to tamper with and to learn from and maybe even get them to work at some kind of level, perfect for rogue groups, mercenaries and all manner of evil that rises up in a galaxy that's as torn as a post-Destroy galaxy. We nearly all can imagine how bad the galaxy is fairing with the Mass Relays down, so galactic travel is greatly affected as well as most of the galactic governments being severely damaged. The major worlds are basically post-apocalyptic and are ripe for discord.

Destroy is a screwed up dark-age period of civilization. And if you wanna brag about self-determinism and free-will and deciding our own fate just watch how all that freedom and near anarchy cannibalize upon itself. Sure life would continue on but how much life and what kind of life would it be?

But if you want to imagine all these good things happening with Destroy, learning from our mistakes and being able to go about and achieving peace through understanding or whatever then those same things can easily be imagined in Control and Synthesis, even easier and more than likely. At least with Control and the Reapers rebuilding, the Galaxy can rebound better than they could in Destroy. And in Synthesis with everybody pretty much upgraded and getting information from previous civilizations cycles, they can rebound even better.

So for me based a little bit of reality-----

Synthesis>Control>Destroy

Modifié par Dharvy, 27 septembre 2012 - 08:05 .

[Foolsfolly]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...
It was also inevitable we would be harvested...
Reapers represent inevitability, while Shepard represents choices mattering...

So.... let me get this strraight.

It's inevitable that all advanced organic races will be harvested.  But.....
It's also inevitable that a technolgical singularity will completely wipe out ALL organic life.  But...
It's also inevitable that organic and synthetic life will be merged into a new framework via "Synthesis".

That's a whole lot of inevitability.

The last guy to speak of what was inevitable to me was shot in the head, then Garrus shot him in the head once more, then he got back up and took more rounds to the head.

Oh, he fought well for a spell but I showed him nothing's inevitable.

[dreman9999]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Destroy is an answer that makes sure the problem ends...But on a short term. What happened with the reaper can happen again over time.

2. Controls pro is that is it works. As much time people have failed to control the reapers, Shepard succeeds. The con is that Shepard is no longer human. Most people thing Shepard as an Ai may lose control. But people who say this miss why the catalyst what wrong. It had no morality and was shackled to a state of thought. The Shepard AI is not. It's equally as good as a choice as destroy...The problems with it are based on Morals.


3. Synthesis is worse then you think. Your letting the catalyst control everything in a new way. It object was to turn everything to reaper so it can control them.Now it does not need to turn them to reapers.

Catalyst's objective was to preserve organic and synthetic life by finding a way to achieve peace. It's first solution were the Repers, but now it has a way to achieve balance without bloodshed.

But that does not change the fact that this is a new way is any less wrong. The only reason his first solution has blood shead is because he has to physically force it on organics. The end results is him completly controling organics and synthetics.
Synthesis may not have blood shead but the end results still has 
him completly controling organics and synthetics. 
It's still just as bad a before. 

 Where does it say Catalyst is controlling everyone? From what I've seen, everyone is still who they were before the Synthesis.

Remeber that mission with Legion where you  had the option brain wash the all the heritic geth to stop fallowing the reapers and they did not notice the change.

Think that with synthesis and organics. No one would notice.

[dreman9999]

Allison_Lightning wrote...

How long before the Shepard-Reaper in Control loses their humanity, their perspective? A thousand years, ten thousand years, millions?
Without friends, family, teammates- a world, just an endless eternity seeing for every Geth type species good type created, a psychotic, organic killing AI species. The cycle would eventually resume, leaving a very extreme AI version of Shepard as the master Reaper behind.

Take some time to understand how the cycle started.  It happened because the catalyst wasa shackled AI with no morally forced to do what it's programed to do.

The shepard AI is not shackled. Add we have nothing stating or showing it would lose it's humanity. Is can easily connect to organic with out devaluing them.

[dreman9999]

Dharvy wrote...

Come on people. So many give all kinds of alternate scenarios for Control and Synthesis to fail, when destroy have nearly the easiest chance of failing. Sure the Reapers are dead, but are they not machines? Did they all blow up or just basically go dormant, shut down? A whole bunch of the Galaxy's greatest machines are laying dormant all over the Galaxy, ripe for anyone with the ability to tamper with and to learn from and maybe even get them to work at some kind of level, perfect for rogue groups, mercenaries and all manner of evil that rises up in a galaxy that's as torn as a post-Destroy galaxy. We nearly all can imagine how bad the galaxy is fairing with the Mass Relays down, so galactic travel is greatly affected as well as most of the galactic governments being severely damaged. The major worlds are basically post-apocalyptic and are ripe for discord.

Destroy is a screwed up dark-age period of civilization. And if you wanna brag about self-determinism and free-will and deciding our own fate just watch how all that freedom and near anarchy cannibalize upon itself. Sure life would continue on but how much life and what kind of life would it be?

But if you want to imagine all these good things happening with Destroy, learning from our mistakes and being able to go about and achieving peace through understanding or whatever then those same things can easily be imagined in Control and Synthesis, even easier and more than likely. At least with Control and the Reapers rebuilding, the Galaxy can rebound better than they could in Destroy. And in Synthesis with everybody pretty much upgraded and getting information from previous civilizations cycles, they can rebound even better.

So for me based a little bit of reality-----

Synthesis>Control>Destroy

......:?Destroy is not a dark age.

[Dharvy]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dharvy wrote...

Come on people. So many give all kinds of alternate scenarios for Control and Synthesis to fail, when destroy have nearly the easiest chance of failing. Sure the Reapers are dead, but are they not machines? Did they all blow up or just basically go dormant, shut down? A whole bunch of the Galaxy's greatest machines are laying dormant all over the Galaxy, ripe for anyone with the ability to tamper with and to learn from and maybe even get them to work at some kind of level, perfect for rogue groups, mercenaries and all manner of evil that rises up in a galaxy that's as torn as a post-Destroy galaxy. We nearly all can imagine how bad the galaxy is fairing with the Mass Relays down, so galactic travel is greatly affected as well as most of the galactic governments being severely damaged. The major worlds are basically post-apocalyptic and are ripe for discord.

Destroy is a screwed up dark-age period of civilization. And if you wanna brag about self-determinism and free-will and deciding our own fate just watch how all that freedom and near anarchy cannibalize upon itself. Sure life would continue on but how much life and what kind of life would it be?

But if you want to imagine all these good things happening with Destroy, learning from our mistakes and being able to go about and achieving peace through understanding or whatever then those same things can easily be imagined in Control and Synthesis, even easier and more than likely. At least with Control and the Reapers rebuilding, the Galaxy can rebound better than they could in Destroy. And in Synthesis with everybody pretty much upgraded and getting information from previous civilizations cycles, they can rebound even better.

So for me based a little bit of reality-----

Synthesis>Control>Destroy

......:?Destroy is not a dark age.

Nearly all the major worlds are war torn, so bad that you can see it from orbit. The galactic fleet is mostly concentrated in the sol system with no imediate way out because of the destroyed relays. With the focus of the Reaper threat gone a possibility of internal conflict as a power struggle among galactic societies may emerge.

But thats all beside my point. My point was that if you can imagine a better galaxy with Destroy and so many bringing up all these horrible imagined things with the other endings than the same can be easily reversed. And if Destroy can be good than Control and Synthesis can be even better. But if Control and Synthesis can turn out bad over time than so can Destroy it a much quicker time frame.