188 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

withneelandi wrote...


I should, of course, have said mage trousers.

That wouldn't change the fact that mages are wearing them.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Beerfish wrote...

I hope Jory is kicking his ass in valhalla or heaven or where ever they are.

I'm sure Duncan just stabbed him again in heaven.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Unless Gaider would like to step in here and explain how he died. Most likely it was the axe to the head. No speculation needed. Maybe they should have shown it to avoid all this confusion.

They did. That's what I'm saying.

Personally, I blame all the media where people aren't dead unless you see the body.

Did they show it? Ok - link me to a video clip of that.

I don't remember getting to watch Connor get stabbed. Maybe we should ask Gaider?

Blame? It's human curiosity. If some stranger told me, "Your mother is dead." I'd want proof. I'd want to see her body. If she simply disappeared, then I'd go on wondering if she were still alive. Think of all the parents whose children are kidnapped and have been missing for decades - they tend to settle on the sliver of hope that their child might still be alive since a body hasn't shown up. Are they wrong? Possibly. But stranger things have happened. It's not entirely the media, and it's not that all people are bloodthirsty and want to see a dead body.

It's that we are curious and critical beings. Nothing wrong or strange about that. 

Even though we see the axe and him not moving, even though the rules as stated seem to imply he doesn't have one year left let alone twelve, people are quite convinced he's still alive. We agree that that's stupid once Gaider assures us he's dead, I'd argue Bioware did a great job of making it clear enough that this wasn't neccesary. (Or shouldn't have been.) Part of this is what you describe, but in most media, what you describe is rewarded. Only in Dragon Age can somebody whose body you haven't seen really be dead, regardless of the evidence.

Edit: Although actually, Fergus Cousland survived under similar circumstances. But then, we don't actually see a weapon coming to behead him. Edit 2: Actually, he isn't near any point where he ought to die either.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2012 - 05:36 .

[thats1evildude]

Duncan survived when his severe wounds allowed him to trascend his current power level and turn into a Super Saiyan. But then he was called out into space into fight Majiin Buu along with the other Supreme Kais.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 30 octobre 2012 - 05:58 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

thats1evildude wrote...

Duncan survived when his severe wounds allowed him to trascend his current power level and turn into a Super Saiyan. But then he was called out into space into fight Majiin Buu along with the other Supreme Kais.

If Gaider did change his mind and bring Duncan back, I imagine he'd have to do something about that ridiculous.

[thats1evildude]

Alistair says later that Duncan was close to his Calling.

Honestly, I'm good with Duncan being dead. I don't know why people want him back. He served his purpose in DAO — to recruit the Warden and serve as the source of continuing angst for Alistair.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...


Not a good comparison.  Connor died in his own home, surrounded by witnesses, including his own mother, who later grieves over his death. Also Connor's death is optional.  Killing/Sparing him has direct impact on part of the game. We'd like to think that our choices in Dragon Age make a difference (though don't get me started on how, at times in DA2, they didn't. I digress...)

We know Connor is dead (should we have chosen to kill him) because we murdered him in front of a bunch of witnesses who went on to live and talk/whine about it.

When Duncan died, no one was alive to say, "Oh yeah I saw that happen. Duncan's dead. That was some cold sh*t."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember running into any NPC's who told me they actually *saw* Duncan die. Even that would have been enough to shut up most people (not all, I'm sure) who argue that he's still alive.

Point taken.

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote... 

Even though we see the axe and him not moving, even though the rules as stated seem to imply he doesn't have one year left let alone twelve, people are quite convinced he's still alive. :::snip:::

I'd argue Bioware did a great job of making it clear enough that this wasn't neccesary. :::snip:::

We see an axe. We see Duncan's face with an expression of "Oh f*ck." Then we see white. Then the game moves on and no NPC in my experience says, "I saw him die" or "We found his body" or something similar to either or those.

With implications that strong, I'd instead need an NPC willing to tell me he's alive, though these implications by themselves wouldn't have convinced me he's dead.

Alistair said Grey Wardens have 30 years give or take. Look it up. Duncan could have been at the 17 year mark (which is over half the lifespan, nearing the end), which left him with little over a decade (13 years). But since Alistair DID say "give or take" that means a Warden could live longer than 30 years. It also means a Warden could survive in less time, but still, the option of living longer than 30 years remains evident.

I have no idea how long Duncan had been alive for. My point, however, is that I'm under the impression that a Grey Warden gets a warning when they're about to lose out to the taint, and that Duncan had gotten that warning. From the tone Alistair takes regarding that warning, I don't think you get 12 years after receiving it.

I have to disagree with you, River, because I think Bioware did a shoddy job of making Duncan's death clear. The evidence is all around us with the numerous threads that pop up regarding the question: "Is Duncan Still Alive?"

I guess I'd rather blame the source than sit around and call numerous folks delusional and crazy. The former seems the more logical conclusion. Calling people delusional seems a bit emotionally flawed. 

I don't call people who believe things without proof delusional. Otherwise, I'd never have lasted 12 years in Catholic school. (Seriously though, I don't think I ever got that strong about it. I don't think it's reasonable, but I don't also don't think it's far enough past the reasonable to merit the reaction you ascribe to me.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2012 - 06:31 .

[ioannisdenton]

David Gaider wrote...

It's rather silly that I have to keep repeating this, but:

Duncan is dead. He will not be coming back. Ever.

well Duncan was a BADASS. his voice was great. too bad.

[thats1evildude]

The implications of Alistair's comments were that Duncan was months away from his Calling, not years.

We can quibble over that, Trista, but I don't see the point.

[ioannisdenton]

Speaking of calling i have the feeling King Alistair is about to die in DA3. I hope for an epic and emotional moment.

[Guns]

The fact that people need to see Duncan's head getting cleaved to think he's dead is ridiculous. It shows everyone else around him dying, him wounded without his weapons, him glaring at the darkspawn charging him acknowledging he's about to die, melancholy music, an army of darkspawn running at him, and even the noise of the axe connecting with him. D.G. Confirming it was just the cherry on top.

Tldr: If you weren't sure Duncan was dead from that scene alone you're an idiot.

[Maclimes]

David Gaider wrote...

Maclimes wrote...
Apparently, at the very least, you need to at least get the voice actor back or something. People love Duncan.

No, I really don't need to do that. Duncan shall not be returning in any capacity. If someone loves him so much, they'll let him rest. And that is the final word on the subject.

I didn't mean to resurrect Duncan. I'm all for "let dead stay dead".

I just mean that SOMETHING resonated strongly with the fans, and maybe the voice actor was a factor. So getting him to voice a different character or something?

[PsychoBlonde]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Eh it would be a b**** to bring him back in any way exept a ghost but as much as I liked him I might be okay with it.

They should have a scene where the Ghost of Duncan berates the Ghost of Riordan.  

Duncan: "You idiot!  Just because I jump on dragons doesn't mean you should!  Now there's nobody left but the two dumbest recruits ever to survive the Joining!  If they wind up stuck in here with us I am kicking your poncy Orlesian butt!"

Riordan: "Idiot, am I?  And who allowed himself to be killed following the questionable strategies of that blond dolt, Cailan?  I told you to hit him over the head and see to it that he was locked in the Tower of Ishal for the duration.  With any luck, that ogre would have eaten him and we could have avoided this whole sorry mess."

Duncan: "This is all Flemeth's fault."

[Maclimes]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
"This is all Flemeth's fault."

This should be the tagline for DA4.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
I have no idea how long Duncan had been alive for. My point, however, is that I'm under the impression that a Grey Warden gets a warning when they're about to lose out to the taint, and that Duncan had gotten that warning. From the tone Alistair takes regarding that warning, I don't think you get 12 years after receiving it.

See - that’s the problem. We have no idea, we operate under the impressions of this or that. It’s all vague, so naturally people are going to have speculations which vary. And that’s why these threads pop up. And that’s why people should be more understanding of those who wonder if Duncan is still alive. (Unless, like I said, Gaider told them he’s dead and they just refuse to listen. That’s just idiotic.)

I would actually like to read what Gaider has to say on how Duncan died. Curiosity, really. Maybe a hint of suspicion. I assume it’s the axe, as I’ve said before. But… it does seem very strange that devs won’t come out and say how he died. Who is to know if whether or not Duncan fell on the battlefield or fell to the Calling.

Remember: The Calling can potentially induce something far worse than death…

Agreed, but it would take a slight retcon for Duncan to still be alive for that reason. My impression from the Codex is that "the lifespan of a ghoul can be measured in months." So according to the rules as given...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
I don't call people who believe things without proof delusional. Otherwise, I'd never have lasted 12 years in Catholic school. (Seriously though, I don't think I ever got that strong about it. I don't think it's reasonable, but I don't also don't think it's far enough past the reasonable to merit the reaction you ascribe to me.)

This misunderstanding is my fault and I apologize. I wasn’t directing that personally at you. Someone else said it in the thread. (But I’ve read that exact sentiment on similar threads.)

Apology accepted.

My words were a statement of generality, misconstrued because I sandwiched them in a response you. Anyway, this was what popped up in my head when I wrote it. Observe:

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
the Devs made it pretty clear that Duncan was dead to everybody, except a delusional few.

To be fair to His Majesty, by now they really have.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 30 octobre 2012 - 07:01 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

By the way, your Hawke looks a bit like my Warden. Maybe they're related?

[David Gaider]

Maclimes wrote...
I didn't mean to resurrect Duncan. I'm all for "let dead stay dead".

I just mean that SOMETHING resonated strongly with the fans, and maybe the voice actor was a factor. So getting him to voice a different character or something?

We could always use Peter Renaday as a voice actor, provided he didn't sound like Duncan.

As for some other comments made in this thread, it's fine if you feel like you want to ask whether Duncan was really dead. I don't think it was ambiguous, but if you do that's fine. He's still going to remain dead. Bringing back a character in any fashion that only existed in the first couple of hours of DA2 two games and two protagonists later is not going to happen-- especially considering that part of what made Duncan an epic character was his tragic death. If he'd stuck around as the mentor who didn't give you vital information until later in the game, you'd probably hate him.

Either way, this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. Duncan's tragic death shall remain his tragic death. No Duncan ghosts, ghouls, or resurrections. I'd really rather not keep having to mention it.

[Masha Potato]

I felt like Duncan was with me all the way through DAO because of how Alistair would never shut up about it.

That was a turning moment of my whole life - the moment i realised i am an insensitive jerk. Boom!

[eyesofastorm]

David Gaider wrote...

No Duncan ghosts, ghouls, or resurrections. I'd really rather not keep having to mention it.

The hate is just... untenable.  Where is it coming from I wonder.... ?