629 réponses à ce sujet

[Zamidge]

I can agree that some people take the whole romance thing too far (is it mean of me to be, when dealing with such hopeless romantics, reminded of Ruxton Harimann when you walk in on him in Sebastian's quest?). Relationships in video games are something that needs to be balanced, not emphasized. I can't help but look at some people's expectations for DA3 romance and think most of the stuff is completely irrational. You have to take a look at things from a writer's perpective... Romances add a deeper connection to a character and can add to the overall roleplaying experience, and I'm all for that, but at the same time, this is an action RPG game we're talking about. Relationships between characters shouldn't overshadow the main plot.

I enjoy the romance aspect of the game as it is (I rarely make it through a playthrough on either game without at least flirting with one of my companions), and if it is expanded upon, I believe it should be only done by adding more optional camp dialogue for the player to choose whether or not to engage in like we saw in DA:O.

TL;DR: This is Dragon Age III we are talking about, not "Fifty Shades of Dragon Age". Plot comes first.

[Redbelle]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Redbelle wrote...

But c'mon, everyone has a favourite character. And romance allows people to play their PC so that they can unlock a deeper relationship  with their favourite character.

There is nothing deep about BioWare's romance mini-games. They're very shallow and in my opinion, diminish an otherwise well written (sometimes) character down to a goal of having sex with said character. Just look at BSN. It isn't about characters anymore, it's about romance and the want (need?) for people to experience some type of relationship (for whatever reason) in a digital world.

Romance mini games? Door hacking in ME2 was a mini game. Romance is served by dialogue choices. As for the want/need for digital relationship's...... I think you've made a error in your interpretation of why people enjoy romancing the characters. You seem to insinuate that you are under the impression that gamer's who play these game's are in someway deficient in real life social interations.

Games are escapism for many, competition for some, leisure activities for others, etc etc. As RPG game's have progressed they have opened up the avenue's of what a player can do beyond hitting the goblin for 2 points of dmg. Story telling games, such as BW's that give permit's players a greater ability to interact socially with other's has naturally drawn in a certain kind of gamer........ seeing as BW have made romance's part of their games for a long time now....... otherwise known as the Role Player , (other types of gamer are available).


From what I can read into your primary issues are that character's in a work of fiction may be reduced to sex objects, reducing their previous and future activities into meaningless effort's. Ok, I can understand where your coming from, but your the one who said it. And frankly I don't agree.

A character like Morrigan does not simply become an object to be picked up and put down at one's beck and call, (unless it's taking the CD out of teh machine), unless they are actively determined to see her in that way. In which case the problem is not with what has been written for her, the problem is with the person who refuses to connect with her as a character and her story. Personally, I like the cheeky flirtatious responses. It's not my fault the characters are ruled by romance system that makes them think I want all of them in my tent.

I also noticed that you seem to think it is important what others think and that they should not think what you think they should think, as your answer to this self conceived problem is to attempt a Mary Whitehouse solution.

Mass Effect 3 had it's puzzle section's removed and suffered for it. Removing romance from DA will likewise make the game suffer. I appreciate you don't like romance's when the sex aspect come's into the equation. But your pet hate and calling for it's removal does not bode well for other memebr's of the community who enjoy Role Playing their characters and talk about who they picked for a romance and why.

Perhaps the problem lies less with the in game romances. I suggest you actively seek non romance thread's.

(Though in the interest of disclosure, Isabella's romance scene was aweful once they started passionately...... I want to say kissng, but the graphic's and camera angle just weren't up to the job of making that look convincing. Less of a remove it, more of a, understand the engine's limitation's before going ahead. Liara's scene's in contrast work well because they are slow, soft focused , (thank you Star Trek - TOS), and shot with a direction that allow's for tasty nudity without being gratuitous.

Well it is a blood soaked mature game.

Modifié par Redbelle, 08 avril 2013 - 06:40 .

[Killdren88]

Can't we just agree to disagree? We all different opinions on the subject and odds are no one on either side of the argument will be successful in converting anyone to either side. And ultimately Bioware will do what they want and I doubt we can sway them in any direction.

[Twisted Path]

I think Bioware really jumped the shark with "romances" starting in Mass Effect 2. I loved that game but the potential love interests seem to jump at you out of nowhere and it was really fanservicy.

As I've said before elsewhere I wish they would go back to the days when romance plots where an Easter Egg that you had to either stumble on or work hard to find and that stretched over a large part of the plot of the game. It felt a lot more organic when say, you knew Carth over the whole stretch of Knights of the Old Republic and he professed his love for you just before you went off to fight the last big battle in the game. And I'm saying this as someone who actually missed the Carth romance in KotOR because I thought he was a whiney moron and stopped talking to him (which was also fine and felt very organic.)

[Zeldrik1389]

Twisted Path wrote...

I think Bioware really jumped the shark with "romances" starting in Mass Effect 2. I loved that game but the potential love interests seem to jump at you out of nowhere and it was really fanservicy.

As I've said before elsewhere I wish they would go back to the days when romance plots where an Easter Egg that you had to either stumble on or work hard to find and that stretched over a large part of the plot of the game. It felt a lot more organic when say, you knew Carth over the whole stretch of Knights of the Old Republic and he professed his love for you just before you went off to fight the last big battle in the game. And I'm saying this as someone who actually missed the Carth romance in KotOR because I thought he was a whiney moron and stopped talking to him (which was also fine and felt very organic.)

Ahhh the good old days. I missed LIs like Carth, Bastila, or Aribeth, always had a deep connection with them. Morrigan in DA:O came close to that level though, but the rest of LIs in DA and ME games felt really hollow, especially romances in DA 2 (an emo whiny abormination, an anime looking slave with anger issue, a pirate that flirt and fck everything that move, a brainless, stubborn, socially retard blood mage, and a preachy, boring as hell Chantry brother *slash* exiled prince *slash* leader wannabe....).
The thing with ME romance is that you talk to them 2, 3 times and romance talk pop up already. It's kinda weird, consider how troublesome "wooing" LIs in other RPGs was. Though I guess it's because of ME RPG mixed TPS gameplay.
Still, compare to Witcher romances.... Girls just throw themselves at Geralt, even though most of them barely know him. I found it even worse. Total fan boy service =.=

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Redbelle wrote...

From what I can read into your primary issues are that character's in a work of fiction may be reduced to sex objects, reducing their previous and future activities into meaningless effort's. Ok, I can understand where your coming from, but your the one who said it. And frankly I don't agree.

That's fine. We all have our opinions on the subject.

@ Twisted Path: Yes, I too much prefer the older games and how they handled romance. It was stretched out over the course of the game and felt a lot more natural. You became friends with the characters before you became lovers. In the new games it's, talk> talk> personal quest> talk> sex> final mission. I really dislike that format.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 08 avril 2013 - 07:37 .

[DAYtheELF]

Oh man, I cannot wait to have my heart smooshed into goo by you all! Why does the pain feel so good?

*edit* And I expect it to be thorougly smooshed in terms of both the romance side of things, and the story in general! I know I won't be let down.  Agggh!

Modifié par DAYtheELF, 08 avril 2013 - 07:42 .

[Naitaka]

Personally I found that the heart icon indicator in DA2 had completely ruined my enjoyment of the romances to the point that I wouldn't mind if they simply get rid of the thing altogether in DA:I if they're sticking to the same dialogue system.

Modifié par Naitaka, 08 avril 2013 - 09:46 .

[Stella-Arc]

Here is a news flash: Romances are optional and short.

I think the romance makes up like a fraction of the ENTIRE game. I played DA:O for almost 60 hours and DA2 40. Out of all those hours, 10-13 minutes of it is was romance, give or take (probably less). So...yeah. I think some people are barking up the wrong tree.

Here's a suggestion, you don't like them, then *GASP*, don't do them. Bioware is not going to add like 15 hours of romance into their games. It's not the romance some of you guys hate or dislike; it's the reactions of those who really like them to the point of dominating BSN.

The number of people loving the romances does not represent the actual content of it in the game.

Modifié par Stella-Arc, 08 avril 2013 - 08:23 .

[SilentK]

DAYtheELF wrote...

Oh man, I cannot wait to have my heart smooshed into goo by you all! Why does the pain feel so good?

*edit* And I expect it to be thorougly smooshed in terms of both the romance side of things, and the story in general! I know I won't be let down.  Agggh!

Ha ha  

Well yes, they hurt me and I like it.

- Alistair's "Noo!!" when my little mage did the Ultimate Sacrifice
- Fenris dumping my FemHawke, had no idea he would come back, rebound with Anders...
- Broken Anders on my first PT of DA2, and I didn't even see the bomb-thing coming. Complete shock for me that one.

Will be fun to see what they put us through this time.... guess it depends on how many fangirl tears they actually need for the coffemaker.

[Hazegurl]

syllogi wrote...

Ehh...you obviously have not seen the Fenris Act 2 post romance scene.  While he does make it clear that "it's not you, it's me", it still can be seen as pretty ego bruising, especially since he breaks off the romance for the next three years.  

The Anders Act 2 scene can go a couple of ways, but if you don't either suggest he move in or let him move in when he broaches the subject, the romance ends...I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be kind of horrified if someone I just slept with for the first time told me right afterwards that they need to move in to my home to avoid the authorities, and if I didn't let them, they accused me of using them and they broke it off.

Isabela is more flattering, but she makes it clear that emotions are not going to involved, so yeah, again, not really romantic, especially if you're frantically trying to figure out which dialogue option to choose to not scare her away while keeping the romance active for the next Act.  

I'm not familiar with Merrill's post romance scene, other than pics of her in her elf undies.  But yeah, out of four romance scenes, at least three of them can be interpreted as ending badly or awkwardly.

Totally agree. Fenris dumping you for three years then dumping you for good if you so much as sleep with someone else ticked me off but I wouldn't change it. I enjoyed sleeping with Anders in one playthrough and asking him if he wanted a sammich when he starts talking about love only for him to dump me and accuse me of using him cause I won't let him move in. Isabela saying " I hope your not having feelings now." after sex was something I expected from her. Too bad sleeping with her ruined my first romance with Fenris. lol! How much rejection do players want?

[Angrywolves]

I predict fans will lose self control and get this thread closed. As for the topic, no. The romances should not be diminished just to appease a portion of the fanbase and alienate the rest of us.

[Enigmatick]

Hazegurl wrote...

Totally agree. Fenris dumping you for three years then dumping you for good if you so much as sleep with someone else ticked me off but I wouldn't change it. Too bad slereeping with her ruined my first romance with Fenris. lol! How much rejection do players want? 

Jesus Christ, people on BSN have never been in a relationship have they. Or is this a good example of how the romance fanbase just want to play "Waifu/Husbando Sex Roulette Sim:The Movie:The Game"?

Modifié par Enigmatick, 08 avril 2013 - 09:24 .

[Senya]

Angrywolves wrote...

I predict fans will lose self control and get this thread closed. As for the topic, no. The romances should not be diminished just to appease a portion of the fanbase and alienate the rest of us.

Agreed. A good romantic subplot is a pillar of a Bioware game. I just want them done well and the player not forced into it.

[Renmiri1]

syllogi wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Well, interestingly enough, every post-sex cuddle scene is all a out how "amazing" or "great" the protagonist was.

* snip *

Ehh...you obviously have not seen the Fenris Act 2 post romance scene.  

The Anders Act 2 scene can go a couple of ways, but if you don't either suggest he move in or let him move in when he broaches the subject, the romance ends..

Isabela is more flattering, but she makes it clear that emotions are not going to involved, so yeah, again, not really romantic,

I'm not familiar with Merrill's .

Fenris ? Dumps you
Anders ? Can I move in ? No ?  Bye. OR Hawke, you are not romantic, and no I don't want a sandwich
Isabella ? Just sex or GTFO
Merril ? Not impressed w Hawke, needs props


Of 4 romances all four DO NOT have anything about how awesome Hawke's performance was. 

Jimmy, if you don't play romances don't try to "fix" them and act like you know about them  

Modifié par Renmiri1, 08 avril 2013 - 09:45 .

[Renmiri1]

Enigmatick wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Totally agree. Fenris dumping you for three years then dumping you for good if you so much as sleep with someone else ticked me off but I wouldn't change it. Too bad slereeping with her ruined my first romance with Fenris. lol! How much rejection do players want? 

Jesus Christ, people on BSN have never been in a relationship have they. Or is this a good example of how the romance fanbase just want to play "Waifu/Husbando Sex Roulette Sim:The Movie:The Game"?

No is an example of you being an idiot.

Fenris romance is one that goes badly for most of the game and then turns awesome on the final 5 minutes. Some people like it - Fast Jimmy keeps saying he wants an LI that dumps his PC, Fenris romance is exactly that.

Anders romance is just the opposite, he chases you and is very affectionate until at the last minute he betrays your trust.

Merril never betrays you and is always there for you but doesn't chase you

Isabela chases you for sex but keeps you at arms length and doesn't want "love" just sex. You have to earn her trust to get her to admit she loves you

A variety of romamnces and relationships, to each taste and each gender role. Sounds to me that dA2 did a very good job on it. The poster you tried to ridicule was pointing out that there is rejection from LIs in DA2 and is very well written. Fenris, Isabella and Anders all reject you at different points of the story.

But if you don't like romance, then to post on the threads mocking people who are trying to discuss story and plot on romances is showing yourself  as a jerk. 

[DarthLaxian]

hm...*considers the opening post*

*mumbles about people complaining about stuff they do not even have to do/that are not needed if you do not want them*

*then states:*

no way mate - on the contrary, give romances much more room (why? - because if you really want to "role-play" - meaning you "living" the live of your hero, then romance is an integral part of live (unless you want to end up lonely and misserable - or you are a heartless kind of person without much in the way of emotions) so it needs to be there IMHO - i would also like them to do it like say on game of thrones (meaning: do "real" love-scenes without the characters wearing underwear or things like that - it is a game for mature people, so why censor stuff? - for prudes? - i don't like it!))

greetings LAX

[Renmiri1]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

IF you are trying to understand, not bash, try reading my previous post again, and answering questions yourself. What do you look for in a game when buying one and why / whether do you think DA delivers this.

Fair enough. What I look for in a game is great gameplay or gameplay that I find appealing. It can have all the other bells and whistles, but if it doesn't nail the gameplay I usually won't bite. I don't think DA delivers great gameplay. I think it's serviceable. But that's been my opinion about most of the BioWare games I've played. It's usually story and characters over gameplay.

That is what I mean about DA and ME3 being undistinguishable from other games: In what matters to me, apart from story, they are in the same tier with many good companies.  In my case is graphics and soundtrack. BW is good but so are a lot of others. It seems you agree, even though to you the key criteria is gameplay,. and in that criteria BW is ok but not unique.

What makes DA and BW games special to you is " usually story and characters", right ? To me is usually story and romance.

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

That set up used to work for them and I would often look past all the gameplay flaws. However, the writing in BioWare games has taken a huge nose dive in quality in recent years, in my opinion. I'm no longer invested in the stories or characters BioWare is developing. Their gameplay is usually hit and miss. So, they either need to bring up the quality of their gameplay or the quality of their writing if they expect me to put down $60 on their game instead of another game.

Same here, if we are talking about ME3. I detest the endings and flat out refuse to buy any DLC. ME3 gameplay and combat was ok to me but story went from good to painful to play so I won't be buying anything ME related.  (*)

If we are talking about DA though, I am much more forgiving. DA2 was clunky and rushed but story, characters and plot on Acts 1 and 2 were really good - IMHO. Act 3 was rushed all over, including story. But I don't begrudge the BW team for it, I blame EA. So I have been and will be buying all the DAI stuff. If BW decided to remove romances though, then I would also abandon all my DA enthusiasm and go look for a franchise that has what I like in games and doesn't cave in to rabid homophobic fans who are afraid of been seen playing a game that has teh gay and teh romance. 





(*) - If you look at my profile you will see I have "From Ashes"  - bought before I saw the endigs - and Citadel. I bought Citadel for modding purposes, not because I intend to play the ME3 that came outon the CD. I've been working with ME3 modding for quite a while and saw MEHEM get born on our modders forum 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 08 avril 2013 - 11:15 .

[Rodia Driftwood]

Damn..It's still going. I just lost 5 bucks to a bet with myself.

[LliiraAnna]

Hey, people like romances. There are so many romance mods for BG2, I don't think I'll ever remember them all.

I like the romances because they are a possibility to learn more about the NPC, about his «personal» side. I loved the BG romances, even the fanmade ones, with walls of text, talks about character's past, flirting, and so on. And, well, that's also a part of role-playing. I agree, however, that the plot is more important for an RPG, since without a story it would be a plain boring dating sim in a fantasy world.

[Scelous]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I do not mind one way or the other about romances but I will say I would rather have them in than out simply because I know many people do enjoy them and I would be a big jerk if I tried to deny them that when the game is still in production.

That's the part that blows my mind.  People complaining about content in a game, when that content is entirely optional.  Hell, they make the heart icon clear in conversation so you can avoid romance if you want.  I can't imagine the kind of mindset it takes to want to remove optional content people enjoy, simply because you do not happen to like it.  I don't like playing as fighters; I like mages.  So the fighter class is wasted content, in my opinion.  I just want an all-mage game.  Come on, Bioware, cater to what I want and only what I want!

Amycus89 wrote...

That being said, I really disliked having the heart icons tell me "press this to win". If it had been handled a bit differently it could have worked, like having several "heart" options at once, where only one really leads to romance, or having romantic interests that only take notice in you if you IGNORE the heart option and play hard-to-get or something by acting renegade instead.

People keep on bashing the heart icon in conversation.  I LIKE the heart icon.  First off, it makes clear what your character's intentions are.  This needs to be established, because you as the player may interpret an option differently than the Bioware writers/main character does.  I've had plenty of times in the Mass Effect series, and in DA2, where the conversation option would be something like, "I don't agree."  Seems harmless enough, and then my character would fly into a rage, smashing the scenery.

A slight exaggeration there, but my point is that I want my intentions to be clear in game, and the heart icon establishes that.

Secondly, I like the heart icon and the romancing because it's more direct.  Not all of us like to do the whole milquetoast "let me pass her a note and see if we can be friends first" approach.  Some of us like to be direct, say we're attracted to the person, and go from there.  I used to pass notes when I was, you know, a kid.  But now that I'm older, and an adult, I just do the direct approach.  Which is why I like it in the game.  I don't want to dance around the issue.

And, by the way, for all the people saying there are too many romances, or they don't like the heart symbol because it's an automatic win:  I tried that with Aveline!  Okay?  I tried using the hearts!  And it was a no-go!  I felt very frustrated, because I would have rather just come out and say, "Hey, I dig you," and get shot down, than tiptoe around the issue.

With my same desire to play as a main character who is a beggar or someone beaten down (like the dwarf commoner), I am perfectly fine with NPCs shooting the main character down.  I was very interested in Mira in Knights of the Old Republic 2.  But, when my character tried to work his magic, she was all like, "Sorry, you're a nice guy, but you're too old."  I thought that was hilarious.  That still makes me laugh today.  So I'm not saying NPCs need to be receptive to your advances, but I want my advances to be clear and direct.

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Ahhh the good old days. I missed LIs like Carth, Bastila, or Aribeth, always had a deep connection with them. Morrigan in DA:O came close to that level though, but the rest of LIs in DA and ME games felt really hollow, especially romances in DA 2 (an emo whiny abormination, an anime looking slave with anger issue, a pirate that flirt and fck everything that move, a brainless, stubborn, socially retard blood mage, and a preachy, boring as hell Chantry brother *slash* exiled prince *slash* leader wannabe....).

Finally, about the nostalgia.  First off, I wanted to smash Morrigan in the face.  I hated that character and found her completely unappealing.  She was like nails on a chalkboard for me.  I loved Liliana, however.  Ah, the good old days.  Too bad the developers wasted time on that hollow romance with Morrigan.

I've been with Bioware since the first Baldur's Gate, so I remember when they added romance in BG2.  I'm not sure why people are reminiscing about BG2 as if it had such superior romances.  I could make some critical remarks about BG2's romances, but I won't, because I really did like them and still do.  However, they weren't somehow superior.  You still had sex with your romantic interest, although it just faded to black instead of showing a cutscene.

The other common complaint I hear is that romances are "poorly written," or not "realistic."  I'm not really sure what you want.  People are direct in their advances in real life, and people do have sex in real life.  It's shocking, I know.

Would it assuage your dislike if Bioware added in some extra scenes of you and your love interest shopping for groceries?  Maybe arguing about money?  How about Hawke wanting to go to a sporting event, but the love interest wants to spend some quality time together and gets irritated if you go?  What exactly are you looking for, here?  Because I hear a lot of complaints like, "And then you get to have sex!" without a lot of solutions, and I am genuinely interested in what people think makes a relationship more "realistic."

[KiwiQuiche]

RinjiRenee wrote...

> A lot of people respond strongly to romances
> They're optional content
> This obviously means that they need to be toned down

No.

[SeismicGravy]

I think the romances should be left alone TBH.

Just because the OP doesn't like them, doesn't mean everybody else should be denied them.

[Redbelle]

@ Renmiri.

If you've cut all ties with ME then fair enough not buying the extra DLC.......

But if not, then The Citadel DLC is a gift that keeps on giving. Ok, it has those who say that taking a break from the war is immoral, but CitDLC give's players back alot of what was missing from the core game. Moment's with your favourite character's that isn't all, 'Oh the world is ending. What do we do now?!?' It allow's the character's personalities to come out...... and even better, the character's do it all in the same room. Bouncing off each other as opposed to just bouncing off the PC.

DA2 has a simillar problem to ME3's. The character's never get together. I mean, really get together. In DA:O we had the campsite where they all existed together, but in DA2, the character's were seperated and given home bases that meant they never had that illusion of togetherness. Some of the best cut scene's in DA2 are the one's where Aveline and Isabella have a cat fight with sharp tongued quips and Isabella teaches Merrill how to get by in life over a game of cards.

[Renmiri1]

Scelous wrote...

I can't imagine the kind of mindset it takes to want to remove optional[/i] content people enjoy, simply because you do not happen to like it

It comes from two sources, I think
a) My friends will see me playing a game that has "a dating sim" and will think I'm "one of those people" - The old too embarassed to admit to people that they like things that look "childish" or "perverted" or "weird" or w/e bias they themselves have against their own tastes. They feel the need to protest vocally against it, to make sure no one ever suspects they also like this stuff
I love nug wrangling and DA2 had no nug wrangling BECAUSE OF ROMANCE!!! Your favorite gaming "fix" be it combat or feeling like a world savior, or etc.. is less than what you expected ? Blame developers for spending time on parts of the game you don't care for. Bonus points if it's something you are embarassed about (see "a)" )

Scelous wrote...

The other common complaint I hear is that romances are "poorly written," or not "realistic."  I'm not really sure what you want.  People are direct in their advances in real life, and people do have sex in real life.  It's shocking, I know.

To that one I usually respond tongue in cheek because by that point the romance hater has already resorted to calling romance fans "perverts" or "losers who need a digital waifu to get dates" so I feel no compution responding in kind 

"I am not surprised you think men or women interested in you is akin to science fiction  but believe it or not, we romance fans are used to dating and having relationships so someone flirting with us is not cause for panic, is quite normal actually" 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 09 avril 2013 - 05:34 .