147 réponses à ce sujet

[Pedactor]

This clears it all up, thanks Chris and Cyo.

[Najarati]

Chris Schanche wrote...

No problem. In response to the questions that have come up, this behavior is fairly unique the the Crusader. Other shotguns do have a minor though less noticeable delay, but the Crusader is the most visible of the guns with a behavior like this.

I will have a look at your concern Najarati, and see what I can turn up.

Much appreciated, Chris!

[rmccowen]

Chris Schanche wrote...

No problem. In response to the questions that have come up, this behavior is fairly unique the the Crusader. Other shotguns do have a minor though less noticeable delay, but the Crusader is the most visible of the guns with a behavior like this.

I will have a look at your concern Najarati, and see what I can turn up.

First: I can't thank you enough for your response to the thread. The Crusader is a weapon that's bedeviled me for a while; I want to like it, but like others, I've had trouble adjusting to its handling characteristics. A little bit of explanation goes a long way.

However, your description of the delay mechanic brings up a concern: although I don't have any direct information about ME3's netcode, it clearly displays some unintended behaviors related to desynchronization between host and client (e.g., Banshee magnet hands and the Vanguard glitch).

Is it possible that some of the behavior that's been reported in this thread and elsewhere is the result of an interaction between the Crusader's 20ms firing delay and synchronization issues? If so, can you hint as to whether the upcoming patch will address any of these issues, and affect the Crusader's handling accordingly?

Modifié par rmccowen, 26 septembre 2012 - 06:25 .

[capn233]

rmccowen wrote...

Is it possible that some of the behavior that's been reported in this thread and elsewhere is the result of an interaction between the Crusader's 20ms firing delay and synchronization issues? If so, can you hint as to whether the upcoming patch will address any of these issues, and affect the Crusader's handling accordingly?

I wonder this as well.  It seemed like some of my close range shots just mysteriously would miss.  The whole not shooting where aiming thing made me feel better, but if it really shoots to where it was aimed when I click left mouse then I am back to somewhat concerned.

[Dasher1010]

Wait, does the smart choke have any effect on the Crusader or not? I noticed this issue so I slapped a choke on it months ago. Otherwise I'll just give it a melee upgrade.

[neteng101]

If I understand correctly - the problem with the Crusader is twofold... one, its so accurate that you have to absolutely have it on target at trigger pull to have any hope of landing the shot. Then you have to actually believe that what you're seeing on screen is also fully accurate if you aren't the host, which could be why any amount of lag at all causes misses.

I think giving the Crusader a 3 pellet shot with a small spread would make it a far better weapon. Sort of like the Graal but maybe with a tad bit less spread.

[K_Os2]

Chris Schanche wrote...

As long is the trigger is pulled when your crosshair is on the target, regardless of the delay you will hit a still target.

This does mean that yes, a small bit of lead should be considered if trying to hit a rapidly moving target, but the delay is small enough that most enemies outside of a few like the Nemesis will not be able to get out of the impact point in time.

Let me know if you have any more questions on this issue, but hopefully this clears up the way the gun is acting a bit.

Heads, they're like... \\O/ <---That big, and of course with a gun like this you're going for headshots

[MinatheBrat]

Appreciate the info from OP/posters/devs on this weapon.
It does seem that there maybe some latency issues affecting performance.

[Tonymac]

Najarati wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

Hey folks,

I had a look at this issue, and here's what is happening with the Crusader. This gun does have a very small delay between when the trigger is pulled, and when the shot is fired, however, the shot goes to the point that the crosshair was on when the trigger was pulled.

Basically, crosshair is at point X, the player pulls the trigger and simultaneously begins moving the crosshair to point Y, reaching it approximately 0.02 seconds later. The shot now goes off, even though the user is now pointing at point Y, the shot still hits the point it was aiming at when the trigger is pulled, point X.

The long and short of this however is, while this does slightly change the presentation feel of the gun, the bullet for the crusader still hits the point you were aimed at when you pull the trigger, meaning it remains as accurate and without delay in actual ability to hit targets as any pistol, sniper rifle, etc.

As long is the trigger is pulled when your crosshair is on the target, regardless of the delay you will hit a still target.

This does mean that yes, a small bit of lead should be considered if trying to hit a rapidly moving target, but the delay is small enough that most enemies outside of a few like the Nemesis will not be able to get out of the impact point in time.

Let me know if you have any more questions on this issue, but hopefully this clears up the way the gun is acting a bit.

Thanks for the clarification, Chris.

However, I've had many cases (almost all of them are when a target is ducked behind cover) where I've the crosshairs hovered directly over the head of an enemy, I pull the trigger, and the enemy takes no damage.  My follow-up shots will do the same thing when they should clearly hit the target's dome.  This isn't from great distances, either, but rather several yards away in most instances and even happens when I'm in an elevated position firing down.  Interestingly enough, it seems to occur mostly with geth.

Also, I almost always host so the impacts of lag are usually minimal.

I have seen this behaviour on pretty much every gun - regardless of armor penetration or not.  If you aim INTO the box/crate/whatever, you will hit, but the clear shot at the 'dome' will miss. 

[Impulse and Compulse]

Thanks for the response Chris, but the gun still feels wildly inaccurate at times.

[Zero132132]

Is there any way to and/or are there plans to reduce this delay, or is it a mechanic of the weapon that we'll be stuck with?

[Najarati]

Tonymac wrote...

I have seen this behaviour on pretty much every gun - regardless of armor penetration or not.  If you aim INTO the box/crate/whatever, you will hit, but the clear shot at the 'dome' will miss.

This is true, I've had this happen on other guns, but it feels (I realize "feels" isn't a good barometer, but in the heat of the match I'm not really keeping count) a lot more frequent with the Crusader.  I use a lot of the precision weapons across my characters -- Sabre, Crusader, Valiant, Carnifex, Viper (before I had the Valiant) -- and it just didn't seem to happen nearly as often with them.  It's entirely possible the Crusader's handling is simply exacerbating an existing issue.  Still, if something can be done to reduce the occurrences, that'd be most excellent.

Also, I do try shooting into the cover, and if it's thin cover it'll pierce and hit, but then I'm not typically getting my headshot at that point.  Sometimes, I just have to move, but that may cost me the opportunity I had seconds before.

Modifié par Najarati, 26 septembre 2012 - 09:36 .

[Destructo-Bot]

So, Eagle and Crusader are still ignore weapons for commendation pack. We only have the Valiant and Hurricane as proper rewards with the other two as filler. Gotcha.

[aarnold1]

Chris Schanche wrote...

No problem. In response to the questions that have come up, this behavior is fairly unique the the Crusader. Other shotguns do have a minor though less noticeable delay, but the Crusader is the most visible of the guns with a behavior like this.

I will have a look at your concern Najarati, and see what I can turn up.

Chris, I too have experienced this.  Granted, the crosshairs aren't lighted but the crosshairs are fully on the target and should have hit, even with the very small delay.  It's like the crosshair lighting gets to decide impact... or maybe winged shots just do no damaged.  It is possible to believe getting shot in the arm would do less damage than in the chest... that's realistic.  But in this case, no damage registers.

[Hook-n-Swoop]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Other shotguns do have a minor though less noticeable delay, but the Crusader is the most visible of the guns with a behavior like this.

Does lag have any effect on the delay, or is it a fixed delay effect on the shotgun?

This should be an easy test with proper equipment that can introduce lag to your "test connection".

[Nissun]

The Crusader should have an included melee damage bonus. It weights a ton and it kinda looks like a club. If it can't shoot at something, at least this way it wouldn't be completely useless.


Seriously, it's meant to be like a "scopeless sniper rifle". But can you imagine if the Black Widow or the Valiant had this flaw?

[Destructo-Bot]

Nissun wrote...

The Crusader should have an included melee damage bonus. It weights a ton and it kinda looks like a club. If it can't shoot at something, at least this way it wouldn't be completely useless.


Seriously, it's meant to be like a "scopeless sniper rifle". But can you imagine if the Black Widow or the Valiant had this flaw?

Quoted for truth! Thanks to the Bioware guy for dropping in, but honestly the response can be summed up as "yea whatever, it's supposed to do that" rather than "ooh, bug... we need to fix that".

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 27 septembre 2012 - 01:52 .

[SavagelyEpic]

DarkseidXIII wrote...

I like it. Deosnt need fix. Learn to shoot. P.s. you disgust me.

What's YOUR problem?

[llandwynwyn]

Sorry for the resurrection, but it seems Crusaders users that put smart choke on it are right. I've used it on a few matches and, while it doesn't fix the problem, it appears to make it a bit better.

Oh, and I still love the Crusader.

[Teukki]

I'm fairly sure I had many instances where the gun didn't shoot where the reticule was when I pulled the trigger (always hosting, so lag is never an issue). Also, shooting enemies that are crouching behind cover is...strange. Either you drop them with one shot, or you don't do any damage - at least when going for a headshot. And I'm not talking about the aiming issue here.

Anyway, good that Bioware answered us. I still hope they will look into it and fix the aiming/delay, if not all the way, but even a little would help. It feels very unnatural right now.

I'll try the gun a little more today. Hope I don't have to shelve it.

Modifié par Teukki, 20 octobre 2012 - 07:39 .

[darkpassenger2342]

glad to see someone bumped this,
it needed one with all the first time crusader aquisitions today.....

[DatFeel]

The Crusader was intended to be this way, just like reload cancelling.

[palker]

Oh now I understand why i could not hit moving trooper even though my crosshair pointed directly at his face. Having class with stun capability (overload, energy drain) helps a lot when you are using it.