274 réponses à ce sujet

[SamaraDraven]

Instead of a dead parent(s) how about a dead child? THAT always gets to me. The PC could have had someone he or she raised - maybe a child, maybe a sibling - who was a mage and had to be murder-knifed when they became a monster. I can imagine the cut scene would be brutal to make. But since innovation is supposed to be a good thing...

[Shadow Fox]

SamaraDraven wrote...

Instead of a dead parent(s) how about a dead child? THAT always gets to me. The PC could have had someone he or she raised - maybe a child, maybe a sibling - who was a mage and had to be murder-knifed when they became a monster. I can imagine the cut scene would be brutal to make. But since innovation is supposed to be a good thing...

Dead Sister usually gets to me I took sick pleasure in killing Lucien in Fable 2*I imagine Sparrow saying "This is for Rose!" when I do it.* which is weird because I don't have a little sister IRL.

[Catia]

Brockololly wrote...
For instance, I have a pretty good idea what Obsidian is shooting for with Project Eternity or Fargo and InExile with Wasteland 2 or Mitsoda and Double Bear with Dead State.

I get what you mean. However, these projects are funded in a completely different way (Kickstarter/publicly funded) and thus play by different rules with regards to how much the developers are willing to discuss with the public. If we fans were literally paying for DA3 to be produced from the ground up, then I think we could expect a similar level of frankness and input because we'd then have the right to know how our funds were being used.

If you want to know stuff like voice actor status, etc., might I suggest the thread dedicated to posting random game-related bits from the DA3 team's twitter accounts? It'll answer the questions you asked about VO actors and the like. Stuff like that is getting out, just not in a formal blog or forum thread. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for Mark Darrah to start a Producer's Diary just for us. I think once the changes to the Frostbite 2 engine are done, we're going to get a big con reveal and then a lot more meaningful info to be excited about. If they put all the (half-finished) cards on the table now, a lot of the hype they could generate for that big reveal is lost.

Personally, I don't want to spoil myself too much. I want to be blown away when I pop the disc in my PC.

[DragonRacer]

Catia wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
So until we show more, patience is advisable. If that's not possible, my advice would be to take a break from the forums until we've revealed more for you to talk about. If even that's not possible, you're going to have to tolerate the rampant speculation-- but not assume that we're spending our time taking it very seriously at this point.

I wish more people would keep this in mind. I wish even more people would remember that BioWare employees are professionals who are in this business not only to give us existing fans a game that we will enjoy, but also win over new viddathari fans. Putting out a game in which the fans have too much input is not the way to do that. Sometimes that entails surprises (gasp!) and not always caving to what the people want, because guess what? Not everybody wants the same exact thing (reading these boards should make that abundantly clear) and it is literally impossible to make every last DA series fan happy. And in regards to transparency...I'm not sure what people really expect. BioWare has been more than generous with fan interaction when compared to other game studios, in my experience. Just because they don't act like a genie in a bottle and grant all of our wishes, doesn't mean they're not listening. Sometimes we come up with ideas that just won't work within the overarching story that is Thedas in the Dragon Age.

Just wanted to say... "I like this human. He/She understands."

I agree with you 100 percent. I've been banging a similar drum over on the Mass Effect side of BioWare's forums, in regards to future DLC content and patches/bugs in multiplayer. People keep wanting to dictate things and string the devs up for keeping to their non-disclosure agreement.

Me? I say all of you fine BioWare folk -- no matter which floor of the building you're on, ME or DA-wise -- keep doing what you're doing. I've greatly enjoyed both series, and I have both faith and trust that you will continue to work at your craft with pride and hard effort, and it will show in the final product that we get the privilege to enjoy.

[Catia]

DragonRacer wrote...

"I like this human. He/She understands."

It's "she".  
And thanks! I expected to get flamed right on out of here for expressing rational views.

[Palipride47]

DragonRacer wrote...

Catia wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
So until we show more, patience is advisable. If that's not possible, my advice would be to take a break from the forums until we've revealed more for you to talk about. If even that's not possible, you're going to have to tolerate the rampant speculation-- but not assume that we're spending our time taking it very seriously at this point.

I wish more people would keep this in mind. I wish even more people would remember that BioWare employees are professionals who are in this business not only to give us existing fans a game that we will enjoy, but also win over new viddathari fans. Putting out a game in which the fans have too much input is not the way to do that. Sometimes that entails surprises (gasp!) and not always caving to what the people want, because guess what? Not everybody wants the same exact thing (reading these boards should make that abundantly clear) and it is literally impossible to make every last DA series fan happy. And in regards to transparency...I'm not sure what people really expect. BioWare has been more than generous with fan interaction when compared to other game studios, in my experience. Just because they don't act like a genie in a bottle and grant all of our wishes, doesn't mean they're not listening. Sometimes we come up with ideas that just won't work within the overarching story that is Thedas in the Dragon Age.

Just wanted to say... "I like this human. He/She understands."

I agree with you 100 percent. I've been banging a similar drum over on the Mass Effect side of BioWare's forums, in regards to future DLC content and patches/bugs in multiplayer. People keep wanting to dictate things and string the devs up for keeping to their non-disclosure agreement.

Me? I say all of you fine BioWare folk -- no matter which floor of the building you're on, ME or DA-wise -- keep doing what you're doing. I've greatly enjoyed both series, and I have both faith and trust that you will continue to work at your craft with pride and hard effort, and it will show in the final product that we get the privilege to enjoy.

I agree with all of these points, and maybe I personally seem too critical. I like to poke fun at things I don't like, duh. Human nature and all (does any one go on the interent to rave about a product anymore?). I swear ALL OF IT is out of love. Disney complexes are fun to point out, and they aren't bad when done well, and I think they have used them pretty well, for the most part. I guess these can just be some ideas for DA 4, if they want to take them. These are fun ideas for our slashfics. 

Honestly, DA is what pulled me back to video games, 100%. I got sick of Space Marine #9841 adventure or WWII private #56124 killing more (*followers of 1930's Germany political ideas*) than humans currently on the planet. I always loved fantasy and stories. DA literally got a pen in my hand and made me pick up writing again. I like speculating and critiquing because it makes me, I think, a better writer, and makes me a more involved (and paradoxically, happier) gamer. 

EDIT: Edited a blocked word 

Modifié par Palipride47, 28 septembre 2012 - 02:04 .

[brushyourteeth]

David Gaider wrote...

Catia wrote...
Sorry to say, but anything regarding our protagonist and his/her family has likely been decided upon for at least a year if not longer.

This is true. Not that we couldn't change it, if we wished, but some things about a story are pretty fundamental and thus not changed lightly.

In the meantime, though, I'm grabbing some popcorn and kicking my feet up while I read some of the topics on BSN, because to read some of them, you'd think BW hasn't even started writing the story yet--that they're just sitting around, waiting for us fans to tell them what to write.

That's always the impression I get from BSN-- that if we aren't sitting by with pads in hand, waiting expectantly for instructions, that we aren't "listening". It's not quite true, obviously, but it certainly seems that way.

Just want to chime in and say, Mr. Gaider, that my intention in creating this thread wasn't at all to make you feel insulted - just to put my opinion out there (as we've been asked multiple times to give them) in a polite and respectful manner. Any criticism can easily come across as harsh, especially over the internet. So you're clearly not happy with the way my thoughts came out, and I'm genuinely sorry.

I'd also like to say that the fact that I OP'd this thread doesn't in an any way mean that I agreed with every post in it or the attitude that you've been given by posters who aren't me.

I'd... like to say that this means I just won't be sharing my opinion any more, but even though you're apt to feel picked on no matter what, in the end I don't think that's what you really want (I mean, you're not being forced to check the forums, right?). So I'll keep trying to share while being friendly and respectful, and if I fail, you'll see more of these apologies out of me. 

Thanks for reading.

[Biotic Sage]

David Gaider wrote...

Ah, okay. Got it.

Written in notebook: "Next time kill two mothers instead of one. No point getting stale."

Well done Mr. Gaider. hahaha

I would respond to zealous, overly specific requests in much the same way.  You have my approval +10.

[R2s Muse]

Avejajed wrote...

So my friend, who started this topic, actually did lose her mother. At a age old enough for it to hurt, a lot. And while I can understand why Bioware isn't about to change their story around when it's already written, and that heroes always have tragic things that happen to them- there's still the fact that my friend has a real concern, and a real hurt, that shouldn't be treated with snark and disrespect. No matter how she worded it, it's still something that comes from a real, painful place, and a little sensitivity in your responses would go a long way.

In solidarity.

[Biotic Sage]

Avejajed wrote...

So my friend, who started this topic, actually did lose her mother. At a age old enough for it to hurt, a lot. And while I can understand why Bioware isn't about to change their story around when it's already written, and that heroes always have tragic things that happen to them- there's still the fact that my friend has a real concern, and a real hurt, that shouldn't be treated with snark and disrespect. No matter how she worded it, it's still something that comes from a real, painful place, and a little sensitivity in your responses would go a long way.

You know, I'll bet Mr. Gaider skipped over that detail in the original post, much like I did.  I see so many threads with tediously specific requests on these forums that I start to skim them when I come across them.  No matter how long they are, if the thesis statement is only concerned with an overly specific request then I will rarely read through the supporting sentences thoroughly.  Much in the same way creationists write a lot of supporting material for their beliefs, the thesis is a joke to begin with so you don't pay much attention to the supplemental material

I certainly didn't mean any disrespect or disregard for your friend's painful experience.  Losing one's parents, or any loved ones, is the single most heartbreaking inevitability of life.  I have not lost my parents yet, but that scene with Hawke's mother was one of the most soul-crushing moments in any video game I've ever played, because I can sympathize with what it WOULD be like to lose your mother like that.  To me that means Bioware had an effective narrative, but obviously it may be too much for others since it could hit too close to home in a wound still too raw.  Anyway, my point is no disrespect intended, and my thoughts go out to your friend.

[SamaraDraven]

I'm sorry brush. I didn't catch the part about your own mother. =(

[slimgrin]

Why not let them write their own story? Because, you know, it's their game.

[brushyourteeth]

Thanks to Avejajed for the backup (you're awesome) and to others for the kind apologies!
Thanks to those who responded kindly, even if you disagree.
And thanks to those who actually read my posts instead of jumping to silly assumptions, even if it turns out you still disagree.

I wasn't hoping for any special consideration because of my situation, but just to make my feelings better understood. DA will always cover tough material (addiction and betrayal are likely in our gaming futures) and I like that. But I have an opinion that's as valid as anyone else's, and the BSN is supposed to be a safe place to express that, both to our developers and to other players, without the hurtful attitude.

I'm honestly disappointed with the tone of things in here, so if the devs would like to shut it down, I understand. I suppose it was too much to hope for kind and respectful replies - I'd just hoped we were all adults. 

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 28 septembre 2012 - 11:58 .

[Dr. wonderful]

I actually lost my father ten years ago, and typically hates it when the Father dies in a work of fiction. That being said, I actually really hope we never lose a parent in this game. I hated it in DA2, because I f@#$%%#@ worked hard to made damn sure I save Hawke's mother only to find out *SURPISE SURPISED* You can't save her.

So, please, no parents deaths, or slibings. death to motivate a character. There are other ways to do so.

[slimgrin]

Wow...really? I lost my dad 2 yrs ago, not lying. He's dead as a brick. The last thing I'd do is ask a game developer to cater to my loss. I mean WTF, are you people for real?

[Palipride47]

@brushyourteeth

Didn't read your full OP (idiot mistake). I apologize if I said something that offended you or kicked you in bad emotional territory. I've had the wind knocked out of me with one of the origin stories (literally cried for hours after it - silly me ) so I can see how the "losing parent" thing hurts.

However, AND WITH THE UTMOST RESPECT I CAN CONVEY VIA TEXT, it may seem presumptuous (even if you didn't mean it that way) to ask for something like that, so I can understand other people's replies. We all have our horrible things that kick us in the emotional equivalent of genitalia. However, I cannot deny the right of the writers to create their story.

Sorry for your loss, for what it is worth over a forum.

Modifié par Palipride47, 29 septembre 2012 - 03:29 .

[brushyourteeth]

My mom's death was hardly the main reason I brought the topic up, so I'd very much appreciate it if everyone read my comments more thoroughly before they drew the very unfair and immature conclusion that I think anything about my past grants me a free pass to tell people how to craft their art. That's ugly. It was a small point in a much larger request, which I repeatedly said was "personal."

It grants me insight, but not privilege. I'm not a special snowflake. People have been through worse. The lack of sensitivity in the replies I've gotten is probably about as offensive as you can get, but since it's the internet, no one's required to act like a human, right? Right.

What I was saying was that it's been done to death. And yeah, those of us who have lost someone in a sudden and unexpected manner will have to deal with that trope for as long as we live. But mostly I think there's so much more that can be done with the story. I think the writers can whip up something amazing out of practically nothing - no point in recycling something they've already excelled at more than once.

All requests are presumptuous. We presume that our opinion matters. We presume that someone might care. Those that would scold me for daring to express my opinion are presuming to think their opinion somehow trumps mine. And maybe I'm as wrong as wrong gets - but I probably didn't deserve all the nastiness. And "sorry for your loss, but you deserve to get yelled at." really doesn't mean anything. It just doesn't.

I'm not trying to deny the writers anything. I'm just giving them one opinion out of millions, since they ask us for those, and putting it out there on a public forum for people to agree or disagree with (one would hope in a kind and respectful manner).

What they do with it is up to them. If we have a dead mom in DAIII and I come out here complaining about how awful it was of them to do that to *me*, then everyone can definitely jump down my throat and be quite justified. But as long as they're asking for opinions, don't tell me mine doesn't count.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 29 septembre 2012 - 05:33 .

[LolaLei]

OP was merely pointing out that she felt the dead/murdered parents trope was over used, it had no baring on whether one or more of her parents were deceased, and as she's repeated several times now, it didn't effect her opinion on the subject matter. She's entitled to voice her opinions, just like EVERYONE does in this forum, that's the point of this whole "we want your feedback" malarkey regardless of whether they take it on board or not.

Modifié par LolaLei, 29 septembre 2012 - 05:42 .

[David Gaider]

brushyourteeth wrote...
Just want to chime in and say, Mr. Gaider, that my intention in creating this thread wasn't at all to make you feel insulted - just to put my opinion out there (as we've been asked multiple times to give them) in a polite and respectful manner. Any criticism can easily come across as harsh, especially over the internet. So you're clearly not happy with the way my thoughts came out, and I'm genuinely sorry.

No need to apologize-- I wasn't insulted. I was mostly teasing, and responding to the "overused trope" comment which had been brought up not only by you but by numerous posts after yours... we tend to change things up from game to game, so it's entirely possible that a particular element will either not be repeated at all or suddenly become a major or minor thing compared to its previous incarnation.

It's also possible that any subject we write about will touch a personal chord with a member of the audience... whether it be the death of a parent, the death of an ill loved one (such as in Thane's case), or any other number of subjects. I'm sympathetic to your loss, but I hope you understand we really can't avoid these subjects out of sensitivity... or we'd have to avoid them all.

That said-- if it wasn't clear through my teasing, point taken! Sorry if I came across as hostile to you. I imagine I do that sometimes, as keeping my tongue firmly in cheek is the primary way I deal with the overwhelming barrage of comments here... keep in mind as well that unless I'm responding directly to someone, chances are I'm addressing the collected posts in a thread and not just the original one (as was the case here, as my initial post was in response to two pages of posts-- but I can see how you might interpret that otherwise).

Modifié par David Gaider, 29 septembre 2012 - 06:54 .

[demonic_cookie]

I did not get through the whole thread, but can I just say I'm tired of the dead mother thing too? It's a trope I see far too often in all kinds of media (yes, epic fantasy genre, I am looking right at you!) and it's becoming disconcerting. Mothers in fantasy seem to be either dead or evil, and it makes me wonder if there is some messed-up cultural psychology thing at work... Don't know enough about it, but the frequency makes me wonder.

I also am really tired of the protagonists motivated by their parents' death. I'd much prefer a character who chose his/her own path than someone who is only doing what she's doing to avenge a mother/father/insert family member here.

[Melca36]

My mother died when I was 13 years old. The comments about Leandra have not affected me at all.

And yes I miss my mother...EVERYDAY but I can't **equate** her passing with a character who simply was not a favorite.

I did cry when my Hawkes (both male and female) killed off their sibling in the Deeproads. That death affected me far more than Leandra's passing. Hearing Malcolm's voice in Legacy affected me as well.

Leandra's death while tragic, simply did NOT affect me.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone but I felt as someone who has also lost their mother that it was important to show that NOT everyone has the SAME perspective.

[FINE HERE]

The reason I wasn't as effected when Leandra died in my game was because I knew right when she mentioned 'suitor,' she was gonna get killed. What did effect me was I had no way to warn her that an obvious plot-murder was about to happen. I called it before it happened, and just got more angry than sad.

[brushyourteeth]

David Gaider wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...
Just want to chime in and say, Mr. Gaider, that my intention in creating this thread wasn't at all to make you feel insulted - just to put my opinion out there (as we've been asked multiple times to give them) in a polite and respectful manner. Any criticism can easily come across as harsh, especially over the internet. So you're clearly not happy with the way my thoughts came out, and I'm genuinely sorry.

No need to apologize-- I wasn't insulted. I was mostly teasing, and responding to the "overused trope" comment which had been brought up not only by you but by numerous posts after yours... we tend to change things up from game to game, so it's entirely possible that a particular element will either not be repeated at all or suddenly become a major or minor thing compared to its previous incarnation.

It's also possible that any subject we write about will touch a personal chord with a member of the audience... whether it be the death of a parent, the death of an ill loved one (such as in Thane's case), or any other number of subjects. I'm sympathetic to your loss, but I hope you understand we really can't avoid these subjects out of sensitivity... or we'd have to avoid them all.

That said-- if it wasn't clear through my teasing, point taken! Sorry if I came across as hostile to you. I imagine I do that sometimes, as keeping my tongue firmly in cheek is the primary way I deal with the overwhelming barrage of comments here... keep in mind as well that unless I'm responding directly to someone, chances are I'm addressing the collected posts in a thread and not just the original one (as was the case here, as my initial post was in response to two pages of posts-- but I can see how you might interpret that otherwise).

Thanks for taking the time to answer! Between the "kill two moms" thing and the combined comments of everyone else, I did feel a little picked on, so I do appreciate the apology very much. Honestly, this whole topic ended up waaay more emotional than I ever intended it to be. So I'm all for moving past it. 

And completely for the record, I'm a big fan (not the mean, toxic kind - the nice kind!), and the only times I typically get remotely snarky on these forums is when I feel someone else is being incredibly unfair to another poster. I really strive to be friendly and respectful. So if it's coming from me to you, I probably don't mean any disrespect by it, and would really love a friendly and direct answer! It's always exciting to hear from you, and even better if I can be sure I haven't accidentally offended. 

.... so you're not going to "aww, muffin." me now, are you? 

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 29 septembre 2012 - 10:03 .