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Dearest DA Writers: a Personal Request


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#51
Maclimes

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David Gaider wrote...

I honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a lesbian romance with a parent (?) or just a relationship with a lesbian parent... but either way being the parents of a protagonist is a dangerous, dangerous occupation. Their sexuality is irrelevant.


Bilbo Baggins, arguably the greatest protagonist that ever "lived", had a normal healthy family. Both his parents (Bungo Baggins and Belladona Took) died of old age as they crept on a century of life. Healthy families CAN make good heroes!

#52
Xewaka

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David Gaider wrote...
Ah, okay. Got it.
Written in notebook: "Next time kill two mothers instead of one. No point getting stale."

David Gaider wrote...
I honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a lesbian romance with a parent (?) or just a relationship with a lesbian parent... but either way being the parents of a protagonist is a dangerous, dangerous occupation. Their sexuality is irrelevant.

It's okay, David. No need to refuge behind excuses. We know it's hard to write around parental figures, and easier to just off them "for the sake of the narrative".

Modifié par Xewaka, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:13 .


#53
Darth Death

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Xilizhra wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
If you bring up a lesbian parental relationship in DA3 for the first time just to kill them, I freakin' swear you'll lose me as a customer.


I honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a lesbian romance with a parent (?) or just a relationship with a lesbian parent... but either way being the parents of a protagonist is a dangerous, dangerous occupation. Their sexuality is irrelevant.

Then imagine the benefits of being able to be groundbreaking twice, instead of just once. I agree with the OP in this case; there's not really a need to kill off the parents of the protagonist if they can't do anything anyway. Or even if they could. Hell, maybe one of them could wind up as a permanent party member; that would be new, though possibly inadvisable if you have racial choices going...

lol really?

#54
Emzamination

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I agree with the Op in this matter.Watching the human noble mother in Dao and leandra die was heart wrenching.

#55
Rinji the Bearded

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Emzamination wrote...

I agree with the Op in this matter.Watching the human noble mother in Dao and leandra die was heart wrenching.


... That was the point.


Maclimes wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I
honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a lesbian romance with
a parent (?) or just a relationship with a lesbian parent... but either
way being the parents of a protagonist is a dangerous, dangerous
occupation. Their sexuality is irrelevant.


Bilbo
Baggins, arguably the greatest protagonist that ever "lived", had a
normal healthy family. Both his parents (Bungo Baggins and Belladona
Took) died of old age as they crept on a century of life. Healthy
families CAN make good heroes!


Somehow I don't think Bilbo would work in the Dragon Age universe... AT ALL.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:11 .


#56
Xilizhra

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RinjiRenee wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

I agree with the Op in this matter.Watching the human noble mother in Dao and leandra die was heart wrenching.


... That was the point.

Yes, but is it a good or worthwhile heartwrenching? Or was it simply forced stupidity? That's the question to ask. Personally, I feel it went all right in the HN origin (though my opinion of such has been forever tainted ever since I found out the PC was forced to be racist there), while being forced stupidity in DA2.

#57
syllogi

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Parent deaths are so passé. What I'd really like to see this time around are super cute kittens, who do really adorable things, who are then brutally murdered.

#58
Lithuasil

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syllogi wrote...

Parent deaths are so passé. What I'd really like to see this time around are super cute kittens, who do really adorable things, who are then brutally murdered.


You... you.. HORRIBLE person :o

#59
Beerfish

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Seems to be a problem here in DA2, we have actually left one parent alive and in the story! Now that's an oversight.....wait....I have this idea about a Frankenmom that has been swirling around in my head.

#60
Plaintiff

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RinjiRenee wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

I agree with the Op in this matter.Watching the human noble mother in Dao and leandra die was heart wrenching.


... That was the point.

Heartwrenching parent deaths are so overdone. I vote for the next parent death in Dragon Age to be played for laughs.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:22 .


#61
Rinji the Bearded

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Xilizhra wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

I agree with the Op in this matter.Watching the human noble mother in Dao and leandra die was heart wrenching.


... That was the point.

Yes, but is it a good or worthwhile heartwrenching? Or was it simply forced stupidity? That's the question to ask. Personally, I feel it went all right in the HN origin (though my opinion of such has been forever tainted ever since I found out the PC was forced to be racist there), while being forced stupidity in DA2.


Forced... stupidity...

Leandra's death was tragic.  Not only does it further isolate Hawke in Kirkwall, it probably also got a few players to change their minds about mages.   It's not that much different than when the Couslands died, which is supposed to fuel HN's character arc (ie, getting revenge on Rendon Howe).   Leandra was even more personal because we came to know her better.   Cousland was just as helpless to save their parents as Hawke was helpless to save Leandra.  Death.  Happens.

If you're afraid about some family characters getting killed off... Dragon Age might not be the right series for you.  David Gaider drinks your tears, it is known...

#62
Beerfish

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syllogi wrote...

Parent deaths are so passé. What I'd really like to see this time around are super cute kittens, who do really adorable things, who are then brutally murdered.


Sten killed all the kittens in Fereldan, he thought they stole his sword.

#63
Rinji the Bearded

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Plaintiff wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

I agree with the Op in this matter.Watching the human noble mother in Dao and leandra die was heart wrenching.


... That was the point.

Heartwrenching parent deaths are so overdone. I vote for the next parent death in Dragon Age to be played for laughs.


Bring out your deaaaaad

#64
syllogi

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Lithuasil wrote...

syllogi wrote...

Parent deaths are so passé. What I'd really like to see this time around are super cute kittens, who do really adorable things, who are then brutally murdered.


You... you.. HORRIBLE person :o


What???  Making us feel bad is important.

(I actually love cats and would never, ever wish harm upon them)

#65
Plaintiff

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RinjiRenee wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

I agree with the Op in this matter.Watching the human noble mother in Dao and leandra die was heart wrenching.


... That was the point.

Heartwrenching parent deaths are so overdone. I vote for the next parent death in Dragon Age to be played for laughs.


Bring out your deaaaaad

No, no. Let me paint you a picture of words.

We fade in on a heartwarming opening scene. The PC's mother fixing him a bag lunch for his first day of Inquisitor school. He snatches it from her hand as he runs to catch the cart just in time. She stands in the doorway, waving goodbye as a solitary tear of pride rolls down her cheek.

That's when the anvil falls on her.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:31 .


#66
Rpgfantasyplayer

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I don't have a problem with parents not being mentioned, but in DA:O in the noble story the parents dying was to show Arl Howe's betrayal since he was a good friend of the families before he killed everyone. To be honest I have always played a human origin in DA:O. After reading this I need to go back and play the other origins as well.

#67
SpunkyMonkey

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Icinix wrote...

*raises hand*

Or the option of being such a bad-ass inquisitor you knock off your own parents....pretty sure they're traitors who sold old the Templars anyway....


This!!

#68
Wulfram

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I prefer having little involvement of, or details about, the PCs family. Whether family stuff works or not is fairly hit and miss in my experience.

#69
Xilizhra

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RinjiRenee wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

I agree with the Op in this matter.Watching the human noble mother in Dao and leandra die was heart wrenching.


... That was the point.

Yes, but is it a good or worthwhile heartwrenching? Or was it simply forced stupidity? That's the question to ask. Personally, I feel it went all right in the HN origin (though my opinion of such has been forever tainted ever since I found out the PC was forced to be racist there), while being forced stupidity in DA2.


Forced... stupidity...

Leandra's death was tragic.  Not only does it further isolate Hawke in Kirkwall, it probably also got a few players to change their minds about mages.   It's not that much different than when the Couslands died, which is supposed to fuel HN's character arc (ie, getting revenge on Rendon Howe).   Leandra was even more personal because we came to know her better.   Cousland was just as helpless to save their parents as Hawke was helpless to save Leandra.  Death.  Happens.

If you're afraid about some family characters getting killed off... Dragon Age might not be the right series for you.  David Gaider drinks your tears, it is known...

Oh, I'm tear-drinking back, believe me.
Also, again, it's forced stupidity, and if the players actually did change their minds about mages, then their Hawkes are drooling nitwits who can't see beyond their own personal problems. Just because some game developers might enjoy being sadistic doesn't mean we have to let them be. Also, the only reason Leandra was forcibly killed off is because the design team was against best choices happening.

#70
Rinji the Bearded

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Plaintiff wrote...

No, no. Let me paint you a picture of words.

We fade in on a heartwarming opening scene. The PC's mother fixing him/her a bag lunch for his/her first day of Inquisitor school. He snatches it from her hand as he runs to catch the cart just in time. She stands in the doorway, waving goodbye as a solitary tear of pride rolls down her cheek.

That's when the anvil falls on her.


A stunning revelation at the climax of the story: the PC remembers they put the anvil on the roof in the first place.

#71
Lithuasil

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syllogi wrote...

What???  Making us feel bad is important.


Making us feel bad is one thing, but leave the poor kittens out of this ;)

#72
Plaintiff

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RinjiRenee wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

No, no. Let me paint you a picture of words.

We fade in on a heartwarming opening scene. The PC's mother fixing him/her a bag lunch for his/her first day of Inquisitor school. He snatches it from her hand as he runs to catch the cart just in time. She stands in the doorway, waving goodbye as a solitary tear of pride rolls down her cheek.

That's when the anvil falls on her.


A stunning revelation at the climax of the story: the PC remembers they put the anvil on the roof in the first place.

The next game deals with his quest to start a public service campaign reminding people not to put heavy things on thatched rooves.

#73
NRieh

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Bilbo Baggins, arguably the greatest protagonist that ever "lived", had a normal healthy family. Both his parents (Bungo Baggins and Belladona Took) died of old age as they crept on a century of life. Healthy families CAN make good heroes!

He...started adventuring pretty late I'd say. I don't remember him leaving Shire with dwarves saying "bye mom, I'll be back in few years, just let me take a walk to mountain and talk to the dragon". And I'd not call him greatest protagonist, to be honest.

Because main part of journey falls on his nephew...and his parents drawned. So - Tolkien also used tropes and archetypes, and was HELL GOOD at it. And it's nothing wrong about them, actually. As long as they are used well.

As for parents... I honestly prefer "blank" characters, because I like to imagine things myself both prior and after game timespan. "preset" family brings some limits. If we remember Shepard - only one of them had alive mother. And mine was "earthborn" - full headcanon freedom.

Hawke puzzled me at first, because family was not only preset but also alive (well...most of family...most of time..). But after several PTs I found that it does not bother me that much (as I first thought it will). Characters left enough freedom to build my own version of family relations, I could headcanon detailes and events.

Thouh, probably, Leandra could have say a word or two in game about relations with an apostate.. ;)

#74
Rinji the Bearded

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Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, I'm tear-drinking back, believe me.
Also, again, it's forced stupidity, and if the players actually did change their minds about mages, then their Hawkes are drooling nitwits who can't see beyond their own personal problems. Just because some game developers might enjoy being sadistic doesn't mean we have to let them be. Also, the only reason Leandra was forcibly killed off is because the design team was against best choices happening.


I don't get this "forced stupidity" thing.  If a mage is capable of putting together pieces of human corpses and reanimate them at his/her will, something that your average mundane person is not able to do... might be worth watching mages AT LEAST.  Not to mention someone might RP a narrow-minded Hawke who wants ALL the revenge on mages for what happened to their mother.

re: the bolded part:  ... Uh, the only thing you can do in this regard is not buy the game if you're that upset about it.  The development may take what we have to say in this thread into consideration... but that doesn't mean they ever have to act on it.  And they probably won't.

#75
David Gaider

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Xewaka wrote...
It's okay, David. No need to refuge behind excuses. We know it's hard to write around parental figures, and easier to just off them "for the sake of the narrative".


Excellent. Thank you for your permission.