274 réponses à ce sujet

[Maclimes]

David Gaider wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
It's okay, David. No need to refuge behind excuses. We know it's hard to write around parental figures, and easier to just off them "for the sake of the narrative".

Excellent. Thank you for your permission.

I just had this horrible image that you wouldn't be allowed to do anything without permission from the forums.

Can you IMAGINE the nightmare of a game that would be created if every aspect was voted on by the forumites? Talk about the dangers of designing by committee...

[Plaintiff]

I'm perplexed by the notion that the writers are steepling their fingers and cackling maniacally over the deaths of characters.

They created them, after all. I dare say they care about them more than any of us.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Maclimes wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
It's okay, David. No need to refuge behind excuses. We know it's hard to write around parental figures, and easier to just off them "for the sake of the narrative".

Excellent. Thank you for your permission.

I just had this horrible image that you wouldn't be allowed to do anything without permission from the forums.

Can you IMAGINE the nightmare of a game that would be created if every aspect was voted on by the forumites? Talk about the dangers of designing by committee...

Toggles.  Toggles EVERYWHERE.  Maybe we can have a death toggle!  If you use it, then family members never die!  They just go to sleep and then fly off to Neverland.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:43 .

[Emzamination]

David Gaider wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
It's okay, David. No need to refuge behind excuses. We know it's hard to write around parental figures, and easier to just off them "for the sake of the narrative".

Excellent. Thank you for your permission.

Ouch

[Xewaka]

Plaintiff wrote...
I'm perplexed by the notion that the writers are steepling their fingers and cackling maniacally over the deaths of characters.
They created them, after all. I dare say they care about them more than any of us.

For those unaware at home, Rowling up, GRRMartin down.

David Gaider wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
It's okay, David. No need to refuge behind excuses. We know it's hard to write around parental figures, and easier to just off them "for the sake of the narrative".

Excellent. Thank you for your permission.

You're very welcome. Please enjoy the sustaining rage tears that will ensue.
Also I think I used "refuge" wrong.

Modifié par Xewaka, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:47 .

[Lithuasil]

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm perplexed by the notion that the writers are steepling their fingers and cackling maniacally over the deaths of characters.

They created them, after all. I dare say they care about them more than any of us.

Good writers will care about all their characters, yes. Nevertheless, there *is* a certain amount of... I don't quite want to call it "glee" involved with knowing a scene is going to invoke certain emotions in the recipient of the story.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm perplexed by the notion that the writers are steepling their fingers and cackling maniacally over the deaths of characters.

They created them, after all. I dare say they care about them more than any of us.

I think they're doing it right, personally... but maybe that's part of their agenda (one of the many, that is).  I've been conditioned to want them to kick me in the gut repeatedly.

[Quicksilver26]

syllogi wrote...

Parent deaths are so passé. What I'd really like to see this time around are super cute kittens, who do really adorable things, who are then brutally murdered.

NOOO NOOO NOT THE KITTENS!!!! ANYTHING BUT THE KITTENS!!!:crying:

[Alan Rickman]

Xewaka wrote...

For those unaware at home, Rowling up, GRRMartin down.

Thanks, I always mix those two up.

[Rinji the Bearded]

I think pulling a GRRM at the end of DA2 might have been nice. Hawke is killed at the climax of the story, then the player takes control of Varric and has to get the heck outta Kirkwall as everything goes nuts. Then a nice transition back to the final part of the interrogation with Cass...

Would definitely solve that "BUT WHAT ABOUT MY CLOSURE" problem.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 25 septembre 2012 - 03:53 .

[Xilizhra]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, I'm tear-drinking back, believe me.
Also, again, it's forced stupidity, and if the players actually did change their minds about mages, then their Hawkes are drooling nitwits who can't see beyond their own personal problems. Just because some game developers might enjoy being sadistic doesn't mean we have to let them be. Also, the only reason Leandra was forcibly killed off is because the design team was against best choices happening.

I don't get this "forced stupidity" thing.  If a mage is capable of putting together pieces of human corpses and reanimate them at his/her will, something that your average mundane person is not able to do... might be worth watching mages AT LEAST.  Not to mention someone might RP a narrow-minded Hawke who wants ALL the revenge on mages for what happened to their mother.

re: the bolded part:  ... Uh, the only thing you can do in this regard is not buy the game if you're that upset about it.  The development may take what we have to say in this thread into consideration... but that doesn't mean they ever have to act on it.  And they probably won't.

The forced reanimation thing was irrelevant. All that mattered is that he was a serial killer, and we've got plenty of nonmage ones. In fact, the forced reanimation was a slight net gain to Hawke because she and Leandra got to say goodbye. And I'm not disagreeing with your line about RPing, I just used different words to describe that Hawke.
Also, it's forced stupidity because you have no chance to fix anything, even though you really probably should.

And I already said I wouldn't buy the game if they did that lesbian-parents-killing-off thing.

[LPPrince]

David Gaider wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
If you bring up a lesbian parental relationship in DA3 for the first time just to kill them, I freakin' swear you'll lose me as a customer.

I honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a lesbian romance with a parent (?) or just a relationship with a lesbian parent... but either way being the parents of a protagonist is a dangerous, dangerous occupation. Their sexuality is irrelevant.

I understood it as "playing a character who's two parents are of the same sex" only to kill those parents off.

If that was done, I'd say props to the two same sex parents, but BOO to killing them off.

Though I get the feeling that would never happen.

[David Gaider]

Lithuasil wrote...
Good writers will care about all their characters, yes. Nevertheless, there *is* a certain amount of... I don't quite want to call it "glee" involved with knowing a scene is going to invoke certain emotions in the recipient of the story.

I would say "glee" is a good word, yes.

Even so, I'm curious why people tend to run with the assumption that we would repeat the same story elements. Yes, parents tend to be taken out of the picture à la the Hero's Journey, but insofar as we writers are concerned we'll move on to some other body part once the original gets too numb from all the punching. So asking us to not write the same story elicits a response which is generally "...okay?" Asking us to not punch you in the gut gets you a pat on the head and an "aww, muffin."

[Plaintiff]

JobacNoor wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

For those unaware at home, Rowling up, GRRMartin down.

Thanks, I always mix those two up.

Which one wrote Twilight. again?

[LPPrince]

Xewaka wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
I'm perplexed by the notion that the writers are steepling their fingers and cackling maniacally over the deaths of characters.
They created them, after all. I dare say they care about them more than any of us.

Only a nerd will find that funny, and holy hell I laughed aloud.

[Xilizhra]

David Gaider wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
Good writers will care about all their characters, yes. Nevertheless, there *is* a certain amount of... I don't quite want to call it "glee" involved with knowing a scene is going to invoke certain emotions in the recipient of the story.

I would say "glee" is a good word, yes.

Even so, I'm curious why people tend to run with the assumption that we would repeat the same story elements. Yes, parents tend to be taken out of the picture à la the Hero's Journey, but insofar as we writers are concerned we'll move on to some other body part once the original gets too numb from all the punching. So asking us to not write the same story elicits a response which is generally "...okay?" Asking us to not punch you in the gut gets you a pat on the head and an "aww, muffin."

If you're required to do any gut-punching, make it actually intelligent. Leandra's death was not intelligent. Bodahn's suggestion to wait around so that the killer can have his way with her was extraordinarily stupid. Going to Gascard DuPuis is far smarter... yet somehow, despite being able to get to him much more quickly than you would have been able to do anything by waiting until after dark, you still arrive at the exact same, wrong, time. This is not intelligent, clever, or good writing. This is clumsily applied, pointless brutality that instilled no sadness in me whatsoever, only rage at Bioware personally.

[LPPrince]

Plaintiff wrote...

JobacNoor wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

For those unaware at home, Rowling up, GRRMartin down.

Thanks, I always mix those two up.

Which one wrote Twilight. again?

JK Rowling wrote the Harry Potter series, George R. R. Martin wrote and is still writing the A Song of Ice and Fire series.

For any book noobs who may be curious. Not you, I take it you already knew their work. 

[David Gaider]

Xilizhra wrote...
If you're required to do any gut-punching, make it actually intelligent. Leandra's death was not intelligent. Bodahn's suggestion to wait around so that the killer can have his way with her was extraordinarily stupid. Going to Gascard DuPuis is far smarter... yet somehow, despite being able to get to him much more quickly than you would have been able to do anything by waiting until after dark, you still arrive at the exact same, wrong, time. This is not intelligent, clever, or good writing. This is clumsily applied, pointless brutality that instilled no sadness in me whatsoever, only rage at Bioware personally.

Thanks for the feedback. Next time we'll try not to write something so blatantly stupid. I'll mark it on my "things to do" list.

[TheJediSaint]

David Gaider wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
Good writers will care about all their characters, yes. Nevertheless, there *is* a certain amount of... I don't quite want to call it "glee" involved with knowing a scene is going to invoke certain emotions in the recipient of the story.

I would say "glee" is a good word, yes.

Even so, I'm curious why people tend to run with the assumption that we would repeat the same story elements. Yes, parents tend to be taken out of the picture à la the Hero's Journey, but insofar as we writers are concerned we'll move on to some other body part once the original gets too numb from all the punching. So asking us to not write the same story elicits a response which is generally "...okay?" Asking us to not punch you in the gut gets you a pat on the head and an "aww, muffin."

Does that mean I'm going to need to wear chest padding playing DA3?  Awww man...

[Punahedan]

David Gaider wrote...

Even so, I'm curious why people tend to run with the assumption that we would repeat the same story elements. Yes, parents tend to be taken out of the picture à la the Hero's Journey, but insofar as we writers are concerned we'll move on to some other body part once the original gets too numb from all the punching. So asking us to not write the same story elicits a response which is generally "...okay?" Asking us to not punch you in the gut gets you a pat on the head and an "aww, muffin."

For me, at least, it's not so much that you would consciously repeat it, but rather that it's so common (the Hero's Journey, as you said) that we just don't question it anymore when it comes up. I think it was executed, for Hawke, very well. And after a certain age, yes, parents are very likely to die. I'd just like to see a reconciliation, I guess. Or a happy family. Variety. And all that.

[Xilizhra]

David Gaider wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
If you're required to do any gut-punching, make it actually intelligent. Leandra's death was not intelligent. Bodahn's suggestion to wait around so that the killer can have his way with her was extraordinarily stupid. Going to Gascard DuPuis is far smarter... yet somehow, despite being able to get to him much more quickly than you would have been able to do anything by waiting until after dark, you still arrive at the exact same, wrong, time. This is not intelligent, clever, or good writing. This is clumsily applied, pointless brutality that instilled no sadness in me whatsoever, only rage at Bioware personally.

Thanks for the feedback. Next time we'll try not to write something so blatantly stupid. I'll mark it on my "things to do" list.

A good start: don't write something just because you didn't want there to be any sort of "best" outcome that would somehow deter people from making other choices. I mean, people deliberately kill off their siblings for roleplaying reasons still; I don't think this is as big a problem as you seemed to.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Xilizhra wrote...
A good start: don't write something just because you didn't want there to be any sort of "best" outcome that would somehow deter people from making other choices. I mean, people deliberately kill off their siblings for roleplaying reasons still; I don't think this is as big a problem as you seemed to.

So what you're saying is that you want things to be black and white, without any of that pesky "grey" area?

[David Gaider]

Hawkeyed Cai Li wrote...
I'd just like to see a reconciliation, I guess. Or a happy family. Variety. And all that.

Yep. Variety is good. And your gut's probably sore... time to move onto the shoulder.

[Lithuasil]

David Gaider wrote...

Hawkeyed Cai Li wrote...
I'd just like to see a reconciliation, I guess. Or a happy family. Variety. And all that.

Yep. Variety is good. And your gut's probably sore... time to move onto the shoulder.

Just as long as you leave the kittens alone! 

[Vandicus]

David Gaider wrote...

Hawkeyed Cai Li wrote...
I'd just like to see a reconciliation, I guess. Or a happy family. Variety. And all that.

Yep. Variety is good. And your gut's probably sore... time to move onto the shoulder.

Hmmm, does that mean killing off our favorite fanfic NPCs that we never meet as a protagonist?