274 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

Vandicus wrote...

I would posit that people in general, aka the market, favors the happy story though.

Well, yeah! Of course! 

If you like chocolate muffins, sell chocolate muffins. Perhaps you'll have a few returning customers that love those muffins. But when you try adding cinnamon to it and find out that its not as well received as you hoped it would be, don't keep adding cinnamon.

Just go back to chocolate, Bioware.

[ElitePinecone]

David Gaider wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
Just as long as you leave the kittens alone! 

I might kill off one kitten... so long as you get to raise his traumatized sibling, until he grows up and becomes Batman. FOR VENGEANCE.

*throws money at screen*

[TheJediSaint]

Vandicus wrote...


*respectful snip*

This comes down to a matter of personal preference, not one type of writing being objectively superior to the other. I would posit that people in general, aka the market, favors the happy story though.

I guess I'm fortunate in that I have eccletic tastes when it comes to story.   I can watch Star Wars and read Song of Ice and Fire and enjoy them both despite them bothing on opposite side of the Dark/Light spectrum.  

So Gaider can punch away to elicite an emotinal response if it gets me more invested in the story.  Just don't start with the head, that makes me all fuzzy and I may not feel the next hit.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:32 .

[Xilizhra]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You could try punching back.

Again, don't buy the game...

It's within my rights to talk still, yes?

Of course it is.

But you're acting as if anything we say here is really having any sort of sway on a video game's narrative?

It doesn't have to. All we can do is give feedback, or in this case, feed forward. Although it's early still, so it's possible that some of what we say may have some slight impact.

[Lithuasil]

LPPrince wrote...

Just go back to chocolate, Bioware.

Or stay with cinnamon, rather then throwing yet another brand of flavorless chocolate muffin out there.

[LPPrince]

Lithuasil wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Just go back to chocolate, Bioware.

Or stay with cinnamon, rather then throwing yet another brand of flavorless chocolate muffin out there.

You can do that, too. But don't expect to have loads of new customers rolling in, nor the returning customers actually coming back.

*shrugs*

That's a whole nother topic in and of itself though, but since I think I had all I had to say about family and killing them off, I'll take my leave.

[Vandicus]

LPPrince wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

I would posit that people in general, aka the market, favors the happy story though.

Well, yeah! Of course! 

If you like chocolate muffins, sell chocolate muffins. Perhaps you'll have a few returning customers that love those muffins. But when you try adding cinnamon to it and find out that its not as well received as you hoped it would be, don't keep adding cinnamon.

Just go back to chocolate, Bioware.

But I loves the cinammon 

In case anyone is curious my love of dark fantasy is largely because I find the protagonists who keep on fighting extremely admirable. There's nothing more impressive to me than a person who won't give up no matter what is thrown at him. That ability to keep on hoping when all hope seems lost and to keep fighting despite massive emotional and physical trauma seems inspiring to me. The guy who keeps on getting up no matter how many times he's knocked down is my favorite character, even when they're a villain(Malus Darkblade is one of my fav characters of all time). 

*EDIT

I am by no means demanding that Bioware cook me a cinammon muffin, I'm just hoping they do.

Modifié par Vandicus, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:41 .

[berelinde]

Carver was probably my favorite DA2 character, surpassing even Anders, but honestly, if there isn't a friendship/rivalry system in place to give the player some control over the interaction with the family member, it can be... jarring.

Not everyone reacts the same way to fictional characters. I'm thinking of Leandra's death. No matter how Hawke actually felt about her, Hawke appeared to be emotionally gutted. Yes, this is his mother. Understood. This is also the woman who has blamed him for every single thing that happened to the family. Had Hawke been more conflicted or simply shut down, it would also have been understandable, but due to the restrictions of cinematics, our Hawkes always responded with obvious grief. I'm not blaming the cinematics department. I'm probably an evil person for wanting a particular Hawke to appear confused rather than devastated, and should not be encouraged. Or something like that.

Anyway, the protagonist is supposed to be a grown man or woman. Maybe mumsy is safe and comfy in some chateau very, very far away. Gets the ancestors out of the picture without creating a lot of trauma for those who like the happy families idea.

Edit: Mmmm, muffins. When's lunch?

Modifié par berelinde, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:43 .

[the_one_54321]

For the sake of accuracy, Aurora's parents are just fine at the end of the movie.

[Xilizhra]

Vandicus wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

I would posit that people in general, aka the market, favors the happy story though.

Well, yeah! Of course! 

If you like chocolate muffins, sell chocolate muffins. Perhaps you'll have a few returning customers that love those muffins. But when you try adding cinnamon to it and find out that its not as well received as you hoped it would be, don't keep adding cinnamon.

Just go back to chocolate, Bioware.

But I loves the cinammon 

In case anyone is curious my love of dark fantasy is largely because I find the protagonists who keep on fighting extremely admirable. There's nothing more impressive to me than a person who won't give up no matter what is thrown at him. That ability to keep on hoping when all hope seems lost and to keep fighting despite massive emotional and physical trauma seems inspiring to me. The guy who keeps on getting up no matter how many times he's knocked down is my favorite character, even when they're a villain(Malus Darkblade is one of my fav characters of all time). 

*EDIT

I am by no means demanding that Bioware cook me a cinammon muffin, I'm just hoping they do.

If the cinammon is optional, take it. Just so long as there's chocolate as well.

[Bekkael]

David Gaider wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
Just as long as you leave the kittens alone! 

I might kill off one kitten... so long as you get to raise his traumatized sibling, until he grows up and becomes Batman. FOR VENGEANCE.

Anders already lost his cat, so I would say that kittens have also been done. Perhaps it's time for a moving dog death ala Where the Red Fern Grows? The loss of Big Dan/Little Ann has stayed with me my entire life.


Also, as a serious aside, major props to whoever wrote the Mother Hawke death scene. That one made me do the ugly snot-nosed cry, and this is coming from someone who never shed a tear through all of ME3, despite how liberally it tugged on my heartstrings. I always have great respect for a writer who can make me cry. 

[Dave of Canada]

Vandicus wrote...

I would posit that people in general, aka the market, favors the happy story though.

They think they prefer the happy story, though one quick glance at the all-time best novels and films and you realise bittersweet or dark is better recieved.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:48 .

[nightcobra]

 I'd love to see a party member that has a wife and kids, a happy life to come back home to.
I don't know, i rather like those stern serious characters that have a soft spot whenever they talk about their family.
Being able to interact with said family would IMO be awesome.

[Vandicus]

Xilizhra wrote...


If the cinammon is optional, take it. Just so long as there's chocolate as well.

That would require a toggle. Your suggestion that this kind of option still exists if it were possible to save Leandra for a "best choice" ending is false. In the case of choosing to not save the mother, that is simply refusing to exert effort or demonstrating some form of sociopathy. Its not enduring loss when the person has the choice of simply avoiding it and chooses not to. If the player chooses to allow the mother to be killed that's not really the same thing as a tragedy.

Also I'm not arguing against chocolate(now I'm feeling hungry). However the market does have an awful lot of chocolate muffins and very few cinammon muffins for people like me. I hope that Bioware sticks with cinammon.

[TheJediSaint]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

I would posit that people in general, aka the market, favors the happy story though.

They think they prefer the happy story, though one quick glance at the all-time best novels and films and you realise bittersweet or dark is better recieved.

I want my real life to be the happy story were I get the girl and have babies ever after.   What I want from fiction is much....broader.

[Vandicus]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

I would posit that people in general, aka the market, favors the happy story though.

They think they prefer the happy story, though one quick glance at the all-time best novels and films and you realise bittersweet or dark is better recieved.

Best is relative. The only objective standard I would use for market preference are sales numbers.

Examples of happy endings for novels/films that are incredibly popular are LoTR, Star Wars(original trilogy), Indianna Jones, Dragonlance(main series, Dragon of X), Disney fillms(recreations of classic fairy tails but with happy endings instead).

A Song of Ice and Fire may have an unhappy ending(we don't know yet), but its only recently become a huge name(when compared to the above mentioned series) because of the HBO series(and I think we both know why lots of people are watching that). 

[EricHVela]

David Gaider wrote...

Hawkeyed Cai Li wrote...
I'd just like to see a reconciliation, I guess. Or a happy family. Variety. And all that.

Yep. Variety is good. And your gut's probably sore... time to move onto the shoulder.

What? The protagonists going to play the sousaphone?

[Lithuasil]

TheJediSaint wrote...


I want my real life to be the happy story were I get the girl and have babies ever after.   What I want from fiction is much....broader.

And that's a reasonable approach. But it's so much easier, and tied to so much less effort to feel the gratification of being handed the girl and babies by a videogame. So lots of people are willing to settle for that, apparently.

[berelinde]

Bekkael wrote...


Anders already lost his cat, so I would say that kittens have also been done. Perhaps it's time for a moving dog death ala Where the Red Fern Grows? The loss of Big Dan/Little Ann has stayed with me my entire life.

Keep away from my mabari! Seriously, that would definitely get the waterworks going.

Also, as a serious aside, major props to whoever wrote the Mother Hawke death scene. That one made me do the ugly snot-nosed cry, and this is coming from someone who never shed a tear through all of ME3, despite how liberally it tugged on my heartstrings. I always have great respect for a writer who can make me cry. 

If you say so. It made me do epic eye rolls. Not saying that it wasn't good. It's just that on my first playthrough, it just served to underline how fictional it was. That Hawke was not fond of his mom. For him to fall apart on screen like that was kinda surreal.

[RogueWriter3201]

David Gaider wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
Just as long as you leave the kittens alone! 

I might kill off one kitten... so long as you get to raise his traumatized sibling, until he grows up and becomes Batman. FOR VENGEANCE.

I would *so* read/play that...

[Xewaka]

nightcobra8928 wrote...
I'd love to see a party member that has a wife and kids, a happy life to come back home to.
I don't know, i rather like those stern serious characters that have a soft spot whenever they talk about their family.
Being able to interact with said family would IMO be awesome.

So... Aveline? Granted, they didn't have children, but Aveline and Donnic fit the "Happily Married" description rather well.
There's also Keldorn in Baldur's Gate 2 if you solve his quest the "good" way (as opposed to the "lawful" way).

[nightcobra]

Vandicus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


If the cinammon is optional, take it. Just so long as there's chocolate as well.

That would require a toggle. Your suggestion that this kind of option still exists if it were possible to save Leandra for a "best choice" ending is false. In the case of choosing to not save the mother, that is simply refusing to exert effort or demonstrating some form of sociopathy. Its not enduring loss when the person has the choice of simply avoiding it and chooses not to. If the player chooses to allow the mother to be killed that's not really the same thing as a tragedy.

Also I'm not arguing against chocolate(now I'm feeling hungry). However the market does have an awful lot of chocolate muffins and very few cinammon muffins for people like me. I hope that Bioware sticks with cinammon.

but it could have been something to think on. blood magic is seen as evil by the general populace and this situation could have been something like "would you be willing to use evil to save a loved one?" 
and even then you'd still have to let dupuis get away and lie to the guard to his whereabouts. 
without knowledge of what would happen afterwards, some people would be left out of this choice not because they were lazy but because they believed their character would not let dupuis escape at the time.
to me, the use of the "third option" is totally fine if you did the work to get it as well if the circumstances allow it.

[Alan Rickman]

Vandicus wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Vandicus wrote...

I would posit that people in general, aka the market, favors the happy story though.

They think they prefer the happy story, though one quick glance at the all-time best novels and films and you realise bittersweet or dark is better recieved.

Best is relative. The only objective standard I would use for market preference are sales numbers.

Examples of happy endings for novels/films that are incredibly popular are LoTR, Star Wars(original trilogy), Indianna Jones, Dragonlance(main series, Dragon of X), Disney fillms(recreations of classic fairy tails but with happy endings instead).

A Song of Ice and Fire may have an unhappy ending(we don't know yet), but its only recently become a huge name(when compared to the above mentioned series) because of the HBO series(and I think we both know why lots of people are watching that). 

I always found LoTR kind of bittersweet.

And I thought Game of Thrones was exceedingly popular because it has tons of great actors, it's visually very pleasing and features tremendous storytelling and character development especially considering that they have to somehow contain the vast tomes that the books are within 10 one hour episodes. Occasional boobies don't hurt.

[nightcobra]

Xewaka wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...
I'd love to see a party member that has a wife and kids, a happy life to come back home to.
I don't know, i rather like those stern serious characters that have a soft spot whenever they talk about their family.
Being able to interact with said family would IMO be awesome.

So... Aveline? Granted, they didn't have children, but Aveline and Donnic fit the "Happily Married" description rather well.
There's also Keldorn in Baldur's Gate 2 if you solve his quest the "good" way (as opposed to the "lawful" way).

i've said this in a previous topic, to me they felt like they were still in an "early stage" of their married relationship if that makes sense.
if aveline was a bit older and had kids with donnic as well being able to interact with their off-duty life then yeah it would be the same.

Ps: and don't say she's off-duty when she's with the party, like varric says...and the trend of you scaring me ****less continues. 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 25 septembre 2012 - 05:09 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Mass Effect already did the whole 'keep the player character's mum alive' thing.