274 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

Yeah, Mhairi's death stuck with me way more than Leandra's.

Probably because Mhairi was an awesome character and had the whole "I will avenge you" thing going on before that was completely shut down.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I don't think you understood the Lord of the Rings at all.

The quest in the Lord of the Rings is more than just to save the world - it's to preserve the world as it is.  And Frodo fails in that quest.  The shire is scoured.  The elves leave.  I find the end of LotR incredibly depressing.

I contend that Sauron succeeded in his goal of an industrialized world, even though he did not survive to see it. The realms of men are revitalized, the elves and dwarves disappear from the world, as do the wizards and any other bearer of magic, the Shire is turned into an industrialized land that the hobbits don't even recognize (the novel version, not the movie). Everything Sauron set out to do happened, minus him and his armies living through his efforts. 

[byzantine horse]

It's just used so often because it's so good at creating a character detached from home and ready to get into the big wide world, present both in fantasy, mythology and in real life. Frodo, Harry Potter, Perseus, Alexander the Great... The amount of credible examples are pretty much endless.

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius, you are 100% wrong about this. The quest was not to preserve the Third Age. Frodo's sacrifice was to give up the thing he loved so that they would be saved from destruction and enslavement. That's why he goes into the west. Not because he failed. Because he succeeded, and in doing so he was damaged such the going into the west was his reward and his panacea.

[the_one_54321]

Also, I read The Silmarilion, The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and sometimes Unfinished Tales, about once every year.

Isengard is washed clean of "industry" and put in the care of the king.

Mordor is essentially obliterated with the destruction of the ring. Literally.

The Shire is ravaged but put quite to rights in the decades that follow immediately after.

The exodus of the elves is almost utterly unrelated to Souron and actually the eventual product of the actions of Morgoth in the Second Age.

The decline of the dwarves was likewise of their own making. They were more interested in crafting than procreation throughout their existence.

[Leoroc]

I picked one of the ME backgrounds where Shep's mom is still alive and it was kinda cool talking to her once in a while, kinda like how Clark Kent talks to his parents every now and then for advice on Superman stuff.

[Palipride47]

Bekkael wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
Just as long as you leave the kittens alone! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

I might kill off one kitten... so long as you get to raise his traumatized sibling, until he grows up and becomes Batman. FOR VENGEANCE.

Anders already lost his cat, so I would say that kittens have also been done. Perhaps it's time for a moving dog death ala Where the Red Fern Grows? The loss of Big Dan/Little Ann has stayed with me my entire life. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]


Also, as a serious aside, major props to whoever wrote the Mother Hawke death scene. That one made me do the ugly snot-nosed cry, and this is coming from someone who never shed a tear through all of ME3, despite how liberally it tugged on my heartstrings. I always have great respect for a writer who can make me cry. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie] 

Or maybe have a grizzled, hardened Ser Pounce-a-lot, ripped from his owner, trekking the vast Fereldan countryside and crossing the Waking Sea to be reunited with his human companion....

David Gaider wrote...

Hawkeyed Cai Li wrote...
I'd just like to see a reconciliation, I guess. Or a happy family. Variety. And all that.

Yep. Variety is good. And your gut's probably sore... time to move onto the shoulder.

The shoulder =  red weddings 

Maybe you can throw the wedding thread a bone and have Hawke and LI get married, only for mages/ templars/ Sebastian to crash it. 

[Wulfram]

the_one_54321 wrote...

The exodus of the elves is almost utterly unrelated to Souron and actually the eventual product of the actions of Morgoth in the Second Age.

Well, the exodus of the elves does have something to do with the destruction of the ring, and thus the end of the power of the rings which had preserved Rivendell and Lothlorien

[obZen DF]

Palipride47 wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

As far as we know. His mother is dead.

I'm pretty sure his mother is leading the mage rebellion.

Pretty sure?

*slow motion leap* NOOOOOO!!!!!! NOT THE ALISTAIR MOM DEBATE!!!!

Hahahaha this made me laugh. *kuch Fi kuch ona kuch*

Modifié par obZen DF, 25 septembre 2012 - 08:00 .

[the_one_54321]

But most of the elves leave/left because their banishment was lifted. In the Third Age the elves are already down to a few strongholds, rather than their great kingdoms of the Second Age. Only the last remnants leave because of the loss of the rings.

[TEWR]

Xilizhra wrote...

This is not intelligent, clever, or good writing. This is clumsily applied, pointless brutality that instilled no sadness in me whatsoever, only rage at Bioware personally.

Personally, I found everything preceding the Gascard-to-the-rescue moment to be what was really bad writing, as it showcased the incompetence of the Templars, City Guard, and Hawke -- all because Bioware said "No".

You can't even try to do good and fail. You just fail in a different, and seriously infuriating, sense of the word.

David Gaider wrote...

I might kill off one kitten... so long as you get to raise his traumatized sibling, until he grows up and becomes Batman. FOR VENGEANCE.

http://t3.gstatic.co...jEcCdFteJW_C6UY

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 septembre 2012 - 08:28 .

[JoltDealer]

David Gaider wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
Just as long as you leave the kittens alone! 

I might kill off one kitten... so long as you get to raise his traumatized sibling, until he grows up and becomes Batman. FOR VENGEANCE.

I think I may love you...

[Wynne]

David Gaider wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
If you're required to do any gut-punching, make it actually intelligent. Leandra's death was not intelligent. Bodahn's suggestion to wait around so that the killer can have his way with her was extraordinarily stupid. Going to Gascard DuPuis is far smarter... yet somehow, despite being able to get to him much more quickly than you would have been able to do anything by waiting until after dark, you still arrive at the exact same, wrong, time. This is not intelligent, clever, or good writing. This is clumsily applied, pointless brutality that instilled no sadness in me whatsoever, only rage at Bioware personally.

Thanks for the feedback. Next time we'll try not to write something so blatantly stupid. I'll mark it on my "things to do" list.

I really appreciate that. It's pretty frustrating when a seemingly-major choice like that has no impact. I feel a lot happier when I feel a game gave me the opportunity to use my foresight and at least try to do something and have it turn out differently.

I think it would've worked better if waiting until dark caused you to lose the trail entirely, causing you to always wonder what happened to her, and hear about more murders occurring (or track him down only to find out what happened if he finished his little "project.") Then, at least, there's a bonus for finding her fast--you see that you prevent more deaths, or you spare your mother some suffering.

Alternately, if he brings back his lost love, at least you have a weird, horrible choice ahead of you (let him get away with it now that it's too late, or kill him and his Frankenstein's Bride)--and if he instead finds no satisfaction in what he has done because he "knows it's not really her after all", you get to see him realize how spectacularly he failed. Then there would be something to be said for both paths. Or all of them, if you make his understanding of his failure a matter of the player sort of Breaking Him By Talking. Then it would've felt more involving, like the Connor choice in the first game.

Incidentally, the Guile Hero will always be my favorite type to play (unless playing dumb is made really funny, but that's more for a second playthrough.) And I like it when my stats have some effect on play. It makes me feel like the gameplay and the story are more integrated, which makes the gameplay more immersive for me.

If it all goes wrong no matter what, then it should always feel like a matter of a whole bunch of bad circumstances rather than being limited to foolish choices. Losing Leandra would have felt heavier if I felt like Hawke had been able to do everything possible to try to look after her even before she is abducted (because then no part of my brain is distracting the weepy part by yelling "come on, making a different choice should have some effect!" the emotional impact instead can stand on its own.) Same with doing everything possible to try to find out what Anders was up to before, you know, Boom. 

I like it when a game gives me the chance to choose whether I think my character would be clever in the pursuit of saving their loved ones or would let the stress get to them and  be just a little too slow. If I get the sense that the tragedy will be as powerful as the triumph, I'm more likely to let the triumph go sometimes. Heavy Rain style. Sure, those were defined characters, but the more the game allows/invites me to define my current character before the crucial events happen, the more I feel like I know what she'd really do.

David Gaider wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...
Just as long as you leave the kittens alone! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

I might kill off one kitten... so long as you get to raise his traumatized sibling, until he grows up and becomes Batman. FOR VENGEANCE.

 

...shouldn't that be... Catman? 

YOU MADE ME SAY IT

Modifié par Wynne, 25 septembre 2012 - 09:00 .

[nightscrawl]

David Gaider wrote...

I honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a lesbian romance with a parent (?) or just a relationship with a lesbian parent... but either way being the parents of a protagonist is a dangerous, dangerous occupation. Their sexuality is irrelevant.

A protagonist with lesbian parents.

[Palipride47]

nightscrawl wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a lesbian romance with a parent (?) or just a relationship with a lesbian parent... but either way being the parents of a protagonist is a dangerous, dangerous occupation. Their sexuality is irrelevant.

A protagonist with lesbian parents.

Who are murdered when they try to get married


*VARIETY* 

Modifié par Palipride47, 25 septembre 2012 - 09:01 .

[Vandicus]

Palipride47 wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a lesbian romance with a parent (?) or just a relationship with a lesbian parent... but either way being the parents of a protagonist is a dangerous, dangerous occupation. Their sexuality is irrelevant.

A protagonist with lesbian parents.

Who are murdered when they try to get married


*VARIETY* 

New idea guys. This protagonist is raised by... Wild Kittens! And they're both killed off.

[TEWR]

...shouldn't that be... Catman?

Technically it'd be BatCat, as he's not really a man.

Also, I agree with everything you stated.

[Palipride47]

Vandicus wrote...

Palipride47 wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a lesbian romance with a parent (?) or just a relationship with a lesbian parent... but either way being the parents of a protagonist is a dangerous, dangerous occupation. Their sexuality is irrelevant.

A protagonist with lesbian parents.

Who are murdered when they try to get married


*VARIETY* 

New idea guys. This protagonist is raised by... Wild Kittens! And they're both killed off.

And one of the parents was Ser Pounce-a-lot, for continuity. 

[Sarah Knight]

@Brushyourteeth i agree with that its what really Pissed me off as well the other thing that Pissed me off is that they Removed the "racial" class entirely instead your stuck with a Human i never played as a human in any games that i as actually able to play as an Elf class that actually Looks good " never was an elf in Elderscrolls hated their Looks" but its True its Like call of duty doing the Same crap every year nothing New Sure they added Multiplayer and Perks but in reality its the Same Bull crap and Same damn thing over and over again i'm pretty Sure with black ops 2 its going to be SAME again like its Predecessor .

like you i am to a fan of Dragon age but with the Same "DEAD mom or dad but mostly Mother" im tired of Seeing that over and over again Same with the Dead Sibling thing but i lost both of my parents and my sister in a horrible Accident that practically Scarred my half sister and myself for life Emotionally and Physically hell i had to take a break every time i saw that or hear about it cause i always get so upset about it. don't Get me wrong Dragon age is a good franchise much better than COD
"i'll ignore any Cod fans comments so don't waste your breath on messaging me"

but yea they need to change out of those Two Area's and bring back the Races that wer part of the original Story Line in the first place maybe add smithing and improving Weapons and armor or even making them that would be interesting to see personally.

[brushyourteeth]

I will say, without throwing out too many spoilers, that I LOVE the parental situation happening in the DA comics right now. LOVE it!!

[Relshar]

brushyourteeth wrote...
Bambi's mom gets shot, and we all cry. It's classic, I know. But here are some reasons why it shouldn't happen in DAIII.
.

You cried when Bambi's mum was shot?

[labargegrrrl]

i know i caught this forum late, and it's mostly gone to cheese, but my serious notes...

i'd love to see a protagonist who's parent's didn't die, but DISOWNED her/him. a good way to get rid of the folks and always leave the possibility of eventual reconciliation or preferred alienation hanging over the whole thing.

that, or just kill my parents before i have to put up with them. as sad as Leandra's death could be sometimes, a very evil part of me was always thinking..."serves you right for never working a day in your life and assuming just being sweet natured could make up for it." at least Cousland mom could still go down fighting.

also, i'm not sure how people are all assuming that the adoptive parental relationships some of the Wardens have were less genuine than the biomoms and dads some of them never saw. for example, i felt like both Ashelle and Keeper Marathari were adoptive mothers to my Dalish Warden, and that's part of why her leaving them behind forever felt so poignant. i think that when we assume dead biological parents equate to dead parents overall, that we do a disservice to what parenting is actually about.

[Vandicus]

labargegrrrl wrote...



i'd love to see a protagonist who's parent's didn't die, but DISOWNED her/him.

So Leandra as the protagonist?

[syllogi]

Vandicus wrote...

labargegrrrl wrote...


i'd love to see a protagonist who's parent's didn't die, but DISOWNED her/him.

So Leandra as the protagonist?

Even if it's not the typical Hero's Journey you'd expect from a video game protagonist, Leandra's story was pretty interesting.  She was a pampered noble daughter who met a Circle mage and helped him escape in order to elope.  Then she got kidnapped by Grey Wardens and rescued by her apostate husband, all before they managed to move to Ferelden.

They may have eventually settled down and raised their kids peacefully, but I bet the story of Malcolm and Leandra's early adventures would be a good read.

Modifié par syllogi, 26 septembre 2012 - 02:05 .

[Palipride47]

labargegrrrl wrote...

i'd love to see a protagonist who's parent's didn't die, but DISOWNED her/him.

I like this. Do this, Gaider.