82 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr_Raider]

There are also significant implications to killing the whole dalish camp, notably you loose access to a cheap vendor who sells unlimited elfroot.

[huwie]

Since some locations include spawn points that (as best as I can tell) keep replenishing defenders until overrun, istm that it should be possible (but extremely tedious) to level up as much as required just by camping in the right location. Or not?

Or how about the anvil puzzle in the final Deep Roads level?

[Ecael]

huwie wrote...

Since some locations include spawn points that (as best as I can tell) keep replenishing defenders until overrun, istm that it should be possible (but extremely tedious) to level up as much as required just by camping in the right location. Or not?

Or how about the anvil puzzle in the final Deep Roads level?

Can you give examples of spawn points? I think BioWare put limits on all respawning spots (even the with Archdemon, as the Archdemon will get fed up and go onto the next phase regardless of his HP).

Also, the enemies in the Anvil of the Void face statue puzzle don't grant any XP.

[Ronin 3000]

i was pissed at the game for re-locking my specializations, so i used the blood vial exploit to boost to level 25. an eye for an eye, i say.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

You can still do Dagna's quest even if you side with the Templars, Greagoir refuses to accept her but when you go back, she still says she is going to go and the quest completes with her going.



One glaring issue though. You claim that your strategy is legit. No it isn't you are exploiting a design flaw from getting xp from killing friendly NPCs. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Devs are right, you can't do it via legitimate methods.

[huwie]

I don't know if any of these spawn points are infinite but here are a few I recall:

In the end-game there's an area with several flights of steps that you have to assault (outside the palace, I believe); the main distinguishing feature is the trip wires protecting either side of the top level. From behind their lines while stealthed, I've watched darkspawn spawning and running across to replace losses. One killed = one spawn, as far as I could see.

There also seem to be spawn points in the deep roads, at the bridge where the dwarven defence squad are holding back the darkspawn, and also I think at the tunnel entrance that leads out from Branka's original position. I never infilitrated those to see exactly what was going on though.

As I say I don't know if these eventually run dry, I've never really tried to exploit them since there are easier ways of getting xp But it does seem to me that the whole idea of these spawn points must be to prevent you winning by a war of ranged attrition, so it seems possible they're infinite. Would be interesting to know for sure.

[Ecael]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

You can still do Dagna's quest even if you side with the Templars, Greagoir refuses to accept her but when you go back, she still says she is going to go and the quest completes with her going.

One glaring issue though. You claim that your strategy is legit. No it isn't you are exploiting a design flaw from getting xp from killing friendly NPCs. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Devs are right, you can't do it via legitimate methods.

Dagna's quest doesn't give you 100 xp unless you've sided with the Mages.

I haven't said killing friendly NPCs was completely legitimate. I also haven't said that Level 25 is not possible without killing friendly NPCs (triple negative, I know). Friendly NPCs make up a miniscule amount of the actual XP you gain compared to selecting the correct dialogue choices for XP and doing quests in the correct order for optimum XP gain. As for what the developers think? They've said that Level 25 isn't possible using the current content. One can argue that friendly NPCs are in fact content, but I won't bring that up any further other than to say that there are far too many variables in this game to claim that you can't get Level 25 legimitately. The Dagna quest I described above is just one instance of a hundred where something ought to give you XP (or give you more XP), but it doesn't because of developer oversight. There are places where stepping on traps intentionally or failing a persuade check grants *more* XP rather than less or none. There are instances where turning two quests in at the same time will give you less XP (Duncan's quests, specifically), instances where a group of monsters will respawn once for absolutely no reason other than developer oversight (Mage origin), and instances where something as minor as giving a certain gift to a character or donating the right amount of money gives XP.

If a BioWare developer or beta-tester can post and say that they have spent hundreds of hours playing the game and going through each dialogue and quest chain over and over again clearing each quest chain in a different order to make sure Level 25 isn't possible, then I'll believe it. However, a beta tester's job is not to see if they can max their level, but to make sure there aren't any bugs (and there still are, anyway). The developers/moderators here used to be diligent in telling people in every post about the level cap that Level 25 isn't possible. They've also been adamant about saying the allied supply crates are cheating. However, they have yet to post in this thread on whether friendly NPCs are exploiting or not, and when they do, I'll see for myself if Level 25 is reachable without killing friendly NPCs - but with the completion of rest of the guide. Saying outright that Level 25 isn't doable because the majority of people haven't reached anything near it with what they believe is 'completionist' gameplay (it isn't, and my guide is still very much imperfect as well) is much like saying that their game does not contain glitches at all. What I'm trying to accomplish in this thread is not to stumble upon every glitch that gives XP, but to stumble upon every single choice made in this game that gives the most XP. That requires more painstaking effort than one person or a group of beta testers can handle.

So yes, I firmly believe that Level 25 is reachable, legitimately, without the use of friendly NPCs. And unless a developer can post every single instance you gain XP in the game, tally them up, and then list the correct order to kill each hostile enemy (because the XP you receive from each enemy is affected by what level you currently are, apart from scaling) to show that it still doesn't amount to 186001 XP, I will continue to believe it. For now, I'll just work on my Mass Effect playthroughs in preparation for Mass Effect 2. At least that game has a New Game+ option to max out my level.

Modifié par Ecael, 24 janvier 2010 - 12:23 .

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

I'm really not all that sure why they put in "fixes" to take away the exploitation of the trap "glitch" as well as the blood vial thing. Who is it hurting when you max out your character? The enemies level with you so it's not like you should have any real definative edge over the game. If a person wants to do it so they can get a ton of abilities to try out, I say let them, it's not like it's an MMORPG or something where you are playing with people across the globe.

[Ecael]

JKJEDIKNIGHT wrote...

I'm really not all that sure why they put in "fixes" to take away the exploitation of the trap "glitch" as well as the blood vial thing. Who is it hurting when you max out your character? The enemies level with you so it's not like you should have any real definative edge over the game. If a person wants to do it so they can get a ton of abilities to try out, I say let them, it's not like it's an MMORPG or something where you are playing with people across the globe.

According to the devs, the game expects you to be within a specific level range at certain parts of the story, and being too high a level can mess up your companions' stats (they stop leveling their stats automatically at a higher level, so they will be missing stat points when you get them).

At the same time, the game becomes easier because most enemies before the Landsmeet only scale up to Level 14-17. If you obtained Level 25 before leaving Lothering, you'll notice that you have a 8-10 level advantage over most of the monsters you meet for the treaty quests.

Modifié par Ecael, 20 janvier 2010 - 01:22 .

[BloodRaith]

I'm happy with reaching 20-23 without being OCD about it, I do that at work too much as it is lol

[jsachun]

Level 25 is bugged for Dog & Shale.

[Ecael]

huwie wrote...

I don't know if any of these spawn points are infinite but here are a few I recall:

In the end-game there's an area with several flights of steps that you have to assault (outside the palace, I believe); the main distinguishing feature is the trip wires protecting either side of the top level. From behind their lines while stealthed, I've watched darkspawn spawning and running across to replace losses. One killed = one spawn, as far as I could see.

There also seem to be spawn points in the deep roads, at the bridge where the dwarven defence squad are holding back the darkspawn, and also I think at the tunnel entrance that leads out from Branka's original position. I never infilitrated those to see exactly what was going on though.

As I say I don't know if these eventually run dry, I've never really tried to exploit them since there are easier ways of getting xp But it does seem to me that the whole idea of these spawn points must be to prevent you winning by a war of ranged attrition, so it seems possible they're infinite. Would be interesting to know for sure.

I went back to the beginning of my burning Denerim save, and tried three separate locations that had respawns:

1. The Palace District (area after the tripwires)
2. The Alienage (area after the gate)
3. Outside Fort Drakon (area with the Dragon Thrall)

All 3 looked like they were constant spawns, but only for about a minute or two of killing them. The Palace District specifically looked like it was constantly replenishing its numbers, but it stopped immediately after the third Shriek spawned.

[Ecael]

On a random note, if you wish to play a Warrior or Rogue and use this guide, the City Elf origin gives the most XP for both male and female characters (~2100-2200 XP into the next level)

Taking Vaughn's money and leaving the other women to the sleazy nobles gives +100 more XP than killing them, but I can't seem to bring myself to pick this option.

[eschilde]

@Ecael

Not even for xp?

Vaughn is a bastard. I understand.

[Ecael]

Updated with some miscellaneous Lothering stuff.

12b. Lothering XP Maximizers:
-Demanding a reward from Ser Donall about the fallen templar - ~25 extra XP
-Donating 50 silver to the robbed elf family - 100 XP

[Minimess]

Just noticed you get 99XP for telling Ser Perth about the oil stocks in Redcliffe prior to the attack, so it's worth doing even if the NPCs end up fighting in it...
(although makes me think, if enemies die due to the burning oil, do we get XP for the kill still?)

(Edit: and it's101XP for getting back to him about the amulets, regardless of whether you said the Mother could help or not, or that they're just amulets and not magical)

Modifié par Minimess, 22 janvier 2010 - 12:17 .

[Ecael]

Minimess wrote...

(although makes me think, if enemies die due to the burning oil, do we get XP for the kill still?)

Friendly NPCs as well as environmental damage (like burning oil) will steal the XP from you if they (or it) gets the killing blow.

Theoretically speaking, if you had friendly NPCs with you for the entire game, it's possible that you could never level past Level 1. This is exactly why my character hates friendly NPCs - they hinder progress rather than help.

For Redcliffe, I usually wipe out all the friendly NPCs with Storm of the Century and position my party in front of the fire.

After all, we didn't start the fire...

Modifié par Ecael, 22 janvier 2010 - 02:20 .

[Ecael]

Trying to catch up on updating the thread (Crime Wave, Broken Circle, and Landsmeet have minor updates).

Also still waiting on a moderator/developer to confirm whether slaying friendly NPCs is an exploit or not. If so, I'll try to keep the friendly NPC list on a separate list or post.

[TalliNV]

Don't know if anyone mentioned it but:
 
http://social.biowar...m/project/1615/

It helps with those friendly NPC's stealing the hard earned XP.

Modifié par TalliNV, 23 janvier 2010 - 01:13 .

[lightstryker]

What about the companion side quests? What are the XP values if any associated with those? Any way to maximize your XP gain within any of those quests?

Also, I dont know if it's been mentioned, but a group of darkspawn spawn around the gravestone closest to the Brecillian Ruins after you finish the Nature of the Beast storyline.

Modifié par lightstryker, 23 janvier 2010 - 03:27 .

[Ecael]

TalliNV wrote...

Don't know if anyone mentioned it but:
 
http://social.biowar...m/project/1615/

It helps with those friendly NPC's stealing the hard earned XP.

That's a very useful mod. Not only does it prevent friendly NPCs from stealing XP, but it also gives the main character the full XP bonus for every kill without having to land the killing blow on every single enemy.

I'd be wary, though. The last version broke one of the scripted events in the Anvil of the Void quest.

[Ecael]

Updated the Bonuses for Kill Shots sections, as well as Nature of the Beast and added a section about Bodahn's restock.

4. Bonuses for Kill Shots
    The character that gets the killing blow gets a slight (105% XP) bonus per kill. Also, if your main character is dead, the subsequent XP gains from kills that your other party members make while dead is 90%. Thus, if you really want the maximum XP allowable, your character needs to stay alive at all times and get every single killing blow.

2b. Bodahn's Wares (Party Camp)
    This is likely to be a bug, but Bodahn at Party Camp will refresh his stock once after your first meeting. Thus, you can actually buy two sets of tomes off of him if you are able to afford the first set of tomes (or just one tome) after traveling from Lothering for the first time. It is likely that only a Dwarf Noble who took Lord Dace's bribe will be able to buy both tomes.
    This doesn't result in a level, but as another talent point it is effectively an extra level. Hopefully this is a bug and will be fixed in a later patch.

14. Nature of the Beast - When you get up to the Gatekeeper werewolf in the Lair of the Werewolves and he wants to make a deal, kill him and clear out the adjacent rooms. You will still be able to talk to the Lady of the Forest. Tell her that you will bring Zathrian, but side with Zathrian and wipe out the werewolves in the lair. After you have obtained Witherfang's heart, you will get a dialogue option where you find out that Lanaya is able to perform the ritual without Zathrian's help, allowing you to attack Zathrian and his Wild Sylvans. Return to camp and head to the Brecilian Forest once again, where Panowen will ask where Zathrian is. Attack her for more XP.
    (Friendly-fire option) Optionally, you can kill Zathrian during your fight with Swiftrunner, effectively being able to kill him twice. You can also make the fight against the Lady of the Forest MUCH easier by AoEing the werewolves that are standing around before you go up the stairs to talk to Zathrian.

[huwie]

Ecael wrote...
1. The Palace District (area after the tripwires)
2. The Alienage (area after the gate)
3. Outside Fort Drakon (area with the Dragon Thrall)

All 3 looked like they were constant spawns, but only for about a minute or two of killing them. The Palace District specifically looked like it was constantly replenishing its numbers, but it stopped immediately after the third Shriek spawned.

Do you recall what triggered the Shriek? It was a while ago that I played through this level, but istr that I was able to engage/kill the newly-spawned darkspawn without disturbing the rest (apart from the one I'd shot to trigger the first spawn). Each new spawn went to his alloted place even though I fired at him as soon as he appeared; so he ran away and then ran back to attack me. I have a feeling the new spawns only took damage once they'd reached their positions, though I wouldn't swear to it.

I was in the area just below the trip-wire on the right-hand side, having circled around from the left without engaging anyone. The spawn point was in a kind of alcove, just off the first/lowest terrace, I think. Sorry for my poor memory, next play through, I'll have a closer/longer look.

[Whailor]

And since when is offering the supplies to your allies considered an exploit? It's perfectly legal, since you get those materials in-game. They're also used as components for potions. And you need to have gathered enough gold to afford it. Exploiting some area changes and glitches in NPC behavior is cheating, yes but buying stuff in the game which is there for purpose and then giving it to the parties as it is intended, is NOT a cheat or glitch. Nowhere did Bioware say that it is not possible at all to get to lvl 25. They said that if you do all of the quests you can get your char to lvl 21-23. Donating materials isn't a quest, it's simply an additional function and quite legal one, at that. So get your sheet in order.

[Ecael]

Whailor wrote...

And since when is offering the supplies to your allies considered an exploit?

Since the moderators/developers had said that making use of a design flaw to gain XP repeatedly with the same action is an exploit?

Consider how people would treat it if this were an MMORPG - would being able to complete one action over and over without much effort infinitely be considered cheap or unfair? Would it ruin the immersion or gameplay? It definitely does.

It's perfectly legal, since you get those materials in-game. They're also used as components for potions.And you need to have gathered enough gold to afford it.

If you're a Dwarf Noble, you can have enough money by the end of the Nature of the Beast quest chain to level all the way to 25. Also, if you have a character with Master Herbalism, you can make infinite gold making Potent Lyrium Potions to level all the way to 25. If there was no level cap, you could theoretically level to ∞/Infinity using the supply crates.

Nowhere did Bioware say that it is not possible at all to get to lvl 25.

They have claimed before that you cannot get Level 25 without cheating or exploiting when you consider the current amount of content. This thread aims to change that.

Modifié par Ecael, 24 janvier 2010 - 09:51 .