398 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamie9]

Reorte wrote...
Finally, something I can agree with Omega's atmosphere was amazing.

We need an entire soundtrack of Afterlife music.

Plus, we only see about 3 Vorcha in the entirety of ME3? Omega should be filled with Vorcha!

[XqctaX]

Reorte wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

As I said above, I hope that the new Omega DLC adds Omega as a hub world.

Finally, something I can agree with Omega's atmosphere was amazing.

i hope it comes with buckets full of renegade sarcasm and humor filled moments for shep
and yeah call me pervert but i wanna break arias rule.. and take responsebility for it. lol :whistle:

Modifié par XqctaX, 26 septembre 2012 - 01:01 .

[Xilizhra]

Shepard? I think there was adequate foreshadowing in ME3. I suspected that Shepard would die, especially after hearing the squadmates' goodbyes on Earth.

Basically, I think the writers wrote the story with Shepard dying in mind. If this was a linear game, that would be the only option. Since it isn't, Shepard can survive.

And I contend that this was all a gruesomely bad idea, because it didn't match in the slightest what the vast majority of people wanted out of this. The theme of "sacrifice" was never as popular as it being, well, a space opera with a rather good hero whom most wanted to make it out alive.

[Reorte]

Jamie9 wrote...

Shepard? I think there was adequate foreshadowing in ME3. I suspected that Shepard would die, especially after hearing the squadmates' goodbyes on Earth.

Yuck to that. I'd expect goodbyes no matter what, simply because they're a bunch of people Shepard is close to and he's heading off towards a very dangerous situation. Foreshadowing an event that should be essentially unpredictable is yet another thing on my list of writing disasters. It's not like getting hints of the Reapers' power and that they're heading this way, or that Cerberus is planning something big and dropping a few hints about what it is and what it might do.

[Reorte]

Jamie9 wrote...

Plus, we only see about 3 Vorcha in the entirety of ME3? Omega should be filled with Vorcha!

Don't you have any faith in Gavorn's ability to do his job?

[ATLAS1192]

It could be that their heads aren't screwed on just right. It could be, perhaps, that their shoes are too tight. But I think that the most likely reason of all, may be that their hearts are two sizes too small.

Plagarism aside, people have their own reasons for disliking the endings. If they haven't left already, then they probably have valid reasons (at least, to them) for staying. I shall let them have their reasons.

[drayfish]

Jamie9 wrote...

I know your post wasn't addressed at me, so I hope you'll not be too offended that I'm responding. I think there was a "victory through sacrifice" theme. This is best shown with the three main squadmate deaths in ME3:

Mordin, Legion and Thane.

Mordin sacrifices his life to allow the Genophage to be cured. This helps the Krogan immensely.

Legion sacrifices his life to allow the Geth to become fully sentient. This helps the Geth immensely.

Thane sacrifices his life to allow the Salarian Councillor to live. This helps the Council races immensely.

So, applying this to the ending. Shepard sacrifices his/her life to allows the galaxy to live. This helps the galaxy immensely.

EDIT: Format is ugly.

There is a significant difference here, however.

Mordin, Thane, Legion, even the Virmire victim, all sacrifice themself to a greater cause.  The give their lives for freedom, autonomy, the bonds of cultural inclusivity - they sacrifice themselves because they hold the lives of others sacrosanct. 

But Shepard doesn't just sacrifice his/herself.  Each of the endings force him/her to sacrifice something else, one of the fundamental principles that define human morality: will you commit genocide on one race to save others; will you use brainwashing to ascend to the status of a god and control the galaxy; will you eugenically mutate every living being against their will in some naff racist notion that DNA will end conflict?

Whatever you choose slaughters more than just Shepard, it makes you a hypocrite to a principle that you have been fighting to uphold and that should have been cherished.

[Necrotron]

I find the general negativity towards people who disagree with their position on the ending is the most sad part of these forums.

Oh, you liked the ending? Screw you! Oh, you hated the ending? You're dumb!

Frankly, I always found that some of the most offensive people had the 'Bioware Deserves Better Fans' banners up. Ironic indeed.

Can't we all just agree to disagree on how we feel and move on? Oh right, this is the internet.

[Jamie9]

Xilizhra wrote...
And I contend that this was all a gruesomely bad idea, because it didn't match in the slightest what the vast majority of people wanted out of this. The theme of "sacrifice" was never as popular as it being, well, a space opera with a rather good hero whom most wanted to make it out alive.

You're supposed to want the hero to survive. That's the idea.

If the hero lived every time, however, I'd become rather bored of storytelling. There would be no tension. And frankly, I don't care what was more popular. I bought Mass Effect to see what the writers wanted me to see, not what the masses wanted.

Modifié par Jamie9, 26 septembre 2012 - 01:11 .

[Xilizhra]

Jamie9 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
And I contend that this was all a gruesomely bad idea, because it didn't match in the slightest what the vast majority of people wanted out of this. The theme of "sacrifice" was never as popular as it being, well, a space opera with a rather good hero whom most wanted to make it out alive.

You're supposed to want the hero to survive. That's the idea.

If the hero lived every time, however, I'd become rather bored of storytelling. There would be no tension. And frankly, I don't care what was more popular. I bought Mass Effect to see what the writers wanted me to see, not what the masses wanted.

I bought Mass Effect to have my story end well. In that manner, I was betrayed.

[Icinix]

Bathaius wrote...

I find the general negativity towards people who disagree with their position on the ending is the most sad part of these forums.

Oh, you liked the ending? Screw you! Oh, you hated the ending? You're dumb!

Frankly, I always found that some of the most offensive people had the 'Bioware Deserves Better Fans' banners up. Ironic indeed.

Can't we all just agree to disagree on how we feel and move on? Oh right, this is the internet.

The ones that really offend me are the ones that finish with "Stay classy BSN" or some such.

That automatic dismissal of every opinion on the forums.

Nothing like taking a dump on your own front lawn.

[silentassassin264]

I actually liked the endings, even the original endings. Unfortunately, I really really hated the prologue and how the main story was shaped until the ending. It makes me feel odd because I feel their should be negativity directed towards the game but not what the vast majority seem to be upset about.

[Jamie9]

Xilizhra wrote...
I bought Mass Effect to have my story end well. In that manner, I was betrayed.

Oh, behave. It wasn't a betrayal. There was no promise or agreement that you would receive the ending you desired. Quite the contrary, upon buying ME3 you agreed to experience the writers' story.

It's not a betrayal if you built up your own preconceptions.

[WildHog70]

Jamie9 wrote...

Reorte wrote...
Finally, something I can agree with Omega's atmosphere was amazing.

We need an entire soundtrack of Afterlife music.

Plus, we only see about 3 Vorcha in the entirety of ME3? Omega should be filled with Vorcha!

There are non-multiplayer Vorcha in ME3? Where? I haven't noticed any!

[Jamie9]

WildHog70 wrote...
There are non-multiplayer Vorcha in ME3? Where? I haven't noticed any!

There are 3 side missions that involve helping Aria take control of the Terminus Systems gangs. One of them has you have a rather intense encounter with 3 vorcha on the Citadel.

[Lunch Box1912]

I know I'm stepping into the wolves den here but please respect our opinions too.

I feel a lot of gamers are misunderstood when they are trying to explain their dissatisfaction with the ending. The ending itself is not bad, and what I mean is the story is actually very good. I think the disconnect comes with fans who after playing ME1 and ME2 are expecting endings to coincide more with the ending mechanics employed in ME2’s Suicide Mission in which our choices throughout the game changes each individual’s outcome and endings. Miranda isn’t loyal Thayne dies, you send the wrong teammate for the job through the ventilation shaft they get shot and killed before the door can be sealed, you pick the wrong squad leader and your squad dies… and so on there were several different scenarios that could play out all following the same story and ending. So I myself was expecting something more detailed and complex to be featured in the ME3 ending. Bioware delivered on this aspect throughout ME3 (Just as a quick example if you don’t speak to Miranda on the citadel before going to Sanctuary and warn her about Kai-Leng she does not survive the altercation with her father. If you do go to the citadel and warn Miranda she survives this altercation.)  However once arriving at the Beam this mechanic ceases. So when we got to the Crucible/Citadel and where presented three choices without there being any real consequences for the choices we made throughout the game it was really a major letdown. 

I think for a lot of gamers this is why we say we are not satisfied, which raises controversy with the gamers who liked the ending story told.  

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 26 septembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[WildHog70]

drayfish wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

I know your post wasn't addressed at me, so I hope you'll not be too offended that I'm responding. I think there was a "victory through sacrifice" theme. This is best shown with the three main squadmate deaths in ME3:

Mordin, Legion and Thane.

Mordin sacrifices his life to allow the Genophage to be cured. This helps the Krogan immensely.

Legion sacrifices his life to allow the Geth to become fully sentient. This helps the Geth immensely.

Thane sacrifices his life to allow the Salarian Councillor to live. This helps the Council races immensely.

So, applying this to the ending. Shepard sacrifices his/her life to allows the galaxy to live. This helps the galaxy immensely.

EDIT: Format is ugly.

There is a significant difference here, however.

Mordin, Thane, Legion, even the Virmire victim, all sacrifice themself to a greater cause.  The give their lives for freedom, autonomy, the bonds of cultural inclusivity - they sacrifice themselves because they hold the lives of others sacrosanct. 

But Shepard doesn't just sacrifice his/herself.  Each of the endings force him/her to sacrifice something else, one of the fundamental principles that define human morality: will you commit genocide on one race to save others; will you use brainwashing to ascend to the status of a god and control the galaxy; will you eugenically mutate every living being against their will in some naff racist notion that DNA will end conflict?

Whatever you choose slaughters more than just Shepard, it makes you a hypocrite to a principle that you have been fighting to uphold and that should have been cherished.

I'm not so sure Control and Synthesis sacrifice ideals. Synthesis as some sort of invasion/violation is overplayed on these forums. The EC shows people acting like they used to and still having the same minds and limitations as before. Some here seem to think that Synthesis is the Singularity, I don't think it is, but it will probably lead to it. But not IT. Control has you redirecting the Reapers, showing them a new understanding of their purpose.

[Reorte]

silentassassin264 wrote...

I actually liked the endings, even the original endings. Unfortunately, I really really hated the prologue and how the main story was shaped until the ending. It makes me feel odd because I feel their should be negativity directed towards the game but not what the vast majority seem to be upset about.

It's different at least

There's quite a lot of criticism directed at other aspects of the game (although Tuchanka and Rannoch seem to generally get praised), it just gets overshadowed by the endless ending arguments.

[Xilizhra]

Jamie9 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I bought Mass Effect to have my story end well. In that manner, I was betrayed.

Oh, behave. It wasn't a betrayal. There was no promise or agreement that you would receive the ending you desired. Quite the contrary, upon buying ME3 you agreed to experience the writers' story.

It's not a betrayal if you built up your own preconceptions.

Well, there were promises about varied endings and about not just pressing one of three buttons, or something of that nature. None of that really happened.

[Jamie9]

WildHog70 wrote...
I'm not so sure Control and Synthesis sacrifice ideals. Synthesis as some sort of invasion/violation is overplayed on these forums. The EC shows people acting like they used to and still having the same minds and limitations as before. Some here seem to think that Synthesis is the Singularity, I don't think it is, but it will probably lead to it. But not IT. Control has you redirecting the Reapers, showing them a new understanding of their purpose.

The forums love to imagine the worst-possible scenario and state it as fact.

The Relays were destroyed? That means the whole galaxy is dead. And even if some survive, all the dextros will still die of starvation! Then the amino guys will all kill each other for food!

[Eterna]

At this point, it's just a bunch of irrational people who are having issues getting over it.

Oh how they struggle.

[Jamie9]

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, there were promises about varied endings and about not just pressing one of three buttons, or something of that nature. None of that really happened.

Oh, I'm the last person to defend that.

And I didn't take kindly to EA's marketting campaign either. We'll give you Kinect! And Day 1 DLC! And DLC in action figures! And you need to play MP to unlock SP content! And we'll have our iOS games affect your SP!

Trust me. If that happens with the next Mass Effect game, I'll be boycotting it. And I loved ME3. But I just can't allow publishers to steamroll consumers. The same applies to those dev comments. Don't lie to your customers. It tends to ****** them off.

[drayfish]

Jamie9 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I bought Mass Effect to have my story end well. In that manner, I was betrayed.

Oh, behave. It wasn't a betrayal. There was no promise or agreement that you would receive the ending you desired. Quite the contrary, upon buying ME3 you agreed to experience the writers' story.

It's not a betrayal if you built up your own preconceptions.

While I agree that ultimately it is Bioware's story to tell - they set the parametres, they dictate the ultimate throughline of the tale - to be fair they did go out of their way in the prerelease material, for several years, to imply that the story was dictated by, and a reflection of, the player. 

There is no canon; you decide; we are the co-creators, etc. on and on.

It was literally only after the negative reaction to the ending started surfacing that anyone at Bioware started to claim artistic integrity as overwriting audience expectation.

(Also, I'm not sure the 'behave' was helpful.)

[silentassassin264]

Reorte wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I actually liked the endings, even the original endings. Unfortunately, I really really hated the prologue and how the main story was shaped until the ending. It makes me feel odd because I feel their should be negativity directed towards the game but not what the vast majority seem to be upset about.

It's different at least

There's quite a lot of criticism directed at other aspects of the game (although Tuchanka and Rannoch seem to generally get praised), it just gets overshadowed by the endless ending arguments.

Yeah, I try to avoid ending arguments as much as possible because if you speak out for the endings you tend to get branded a troll.

[Jamie9]

drayfish wrote...
While I agree that ultimately it is Bioware's story to tell - they set the parametres, they dictate the ultimate throughline of the tale - to be fair they did go out of their way in the prerelease material, for several years, to imply that the story was dictated by, and a reflection of, the player. 

There is no canon; you decide; we are the co-creators, etc. on and on.

It was literally only after the negative reaction to the ending started surfacing that anyone at Bioware started to claim artistic integrity as overwriting audience expectation.

(Also, I'm not sure the 'behave' was helpful.)

Yeah, that was just PR nonsense though.

So we get to make decisions in this game? That's fantastic. I love that about Mass Effect. But who wrote and implemented ALL of those choices? The writers.

I'm just picking which one my Shepard would make. It's still defined by the writing team.

I apologise about that comment. It's easy to be more aggressive than you meant to be on the internet.